Intro., and a question

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

Since intro. posts seem to be fairly common around here, here goes. I'm a children's librarian living on a curious little island floating just off the bottom of England. My hobbies are all ones the media like to label "sad": traditional folk songs, role-playing games, sf and fantasy, Morris dancing, historical re-enactment, writing, board games and computer games etc. (While I am not ashamed of these hobbies, the fact that the media labels them all as sad is something I rant about quite a bit.)

I read mostly fantasy and historical novels, and mediaeval and early modern history. I read The Thief 7 or 8 ago, and loved it. QoA I was less fond of, but when I read KoA last year, I fell madly in love all over again (and now like QoA a whole lot more.) As for other books, childhood favourites, all of which I still reread, included Swallows and Amazons, Rosemary Sutcliff, Walter Scott, Alexandre Dumas, and Tolkien. Favourite authors nowadays include Diana Wynne Jones, George RR Martin and Dorothy Dunnett.

Anyway, as if that wasn't far more introduction than anyone could ever have wanted, I also have a question. When you recommend The Thief to others, how much do you reveal?

I don't seem to have had much success in getting friends to read The Thief. With most books, I find it fairly easy to tell people why I love them, and explain the basic plot set-up without giving things away, but I find this next to impossible to do with his series. I'm so scared of giving away spoilers, that I end up saying hardly anything, and completely failing to convey my enthusiasm.

The "twist" at the end of The Thief is, in my opinion, a vital part of the genius of the novel, but I feel I can't tell any new reader this, because it's a spoiler. Even saying something vague about it constitutes a spoiler. "Just wait until you get to the surprise twist at the ending!" is tantamount to telling people the twist, since it makes them alert for it, and actively seeking out clues.

There are some books and films that would be pretty mediocre were it not for the gimmick of a twist at the end. I do not think that The Thief is one of those. Even if Gen had proved to be no more than he appeared to be, it would have been a well-written book set in an interesting and well-realised world. However, without the twist, I think it would just be a pretty good story. With the twist, it is – in my opinion - a book to fall head over heels in love with for ever more.

I can't remember what it was that "sold" the series to me, so that's no help. I read something about it on a children's book newsgroup, but the book didn't seem to be available over here. I mentioned it to an American friend, in case she'd read it, but she hadn't. She must have noted the title down, though, since she bought it for me for my birthday months later. However, by then, I couldn't remember what I'd read about the book, so I came to the book with no preconceptions at all.

So how do I "sell" a book when I feel I can't mention the main thing I love about it? I can tell people, straight-faced, that it's about a common thief plucked from prison to go on a dangerous quest, but that feels a little like lying, and also makes it sound like a fairly cliched set-up. I can wimp out completely, and tell people about the setting, but that feels rather unemotional and cold. Or I can hint at the twist, convey my enthusiasm... but spoil the ending as I do so.

However, everyone else here seems to be able to inspire their friends to read the book, so I'm clearly doing something wrong. (Probably agonising too much about it.)

Comments

[dannybailey.livejournal.com]

Welcome! I totally hear with the twist ending. That was what really made me love the book. I was taken completely by surprise, which I think was important. I doubt I would have loved it as much if I'd known the ending. With that in mind, I say try to convince your friends without spoilers. Maybe make a bet with them, and if you win they have to read one chapter? After that, I'm sure they'll want to keep going. (This is how I got my brother to read Holes when we were kids. ^_^)

Also, my mandatory plug for newbs: If you like fanfiction (or if you've never read it, but have a gut feeling that you might like it) please check out our affiliate community dedicated to fanfiction based on MWT's books: Queensthief_Fic (http://community.livejournal.com/queensthief_fic/profile")

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

I started lurking on the fanfic community at the same time as I started lurking on this one. I do like fanfic - both to read and write - although I have unpopular tastes, and lots of self-made rules and restrictions. I'm far more cautious about book-based fanfic than TV series fanfic. It seems to be a much bigger thing to play with one author's creation who features in a single plot arc, than the creation of a group of people who feature in episodic incidents. That said, I'm certainly written some fanfic based on some of my favourite books, and it is altogether possible that I might one day be inspired to write within Gen's world, too...

[keestone.livejournal.com]

And yet we with the "sad" habits usually seem so much happier than those with "cool" habits. I totally would have gotten into Morris Dancing if I didn't have a bum knee. :)

I usually try to tailor my book recs to whichever friend I'm reccing to. It varies from things like "You'll like the pantheon in this one" (to the best friend who likes mythology) to "It's on the top of the list now. Read it" (to the beloved, who's not going to argue). I try never to give too much plot detail out no matter what the book, but I'll describe the setting a bit. (This is probably mostly because I hate summarizing things.)

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

Now I make my confession all over again. I flipped to the ending when I was reading Thief. I was probably about halfway through at the time. And obviously I ruined my own surprise at the end. BUT it didn't ruin the book for me at all! I still loved it. That said, I wouldn't dream of giving away the ending to someone else.
"everyone here seems to be able to inspire their friends to read the book" -- HA! As far as I know, only two people read the book because of me -- one loved it, and the other got all cross about not understanding the setting. Actually you will find that sounisians often get together and complain that our friends are bums and refuse to read what we want them to!

[avian-xj.livejournal.com]

Welcome! afraid i'm not much help with the question though. i got my cousin to read the books because he agreed so nicely. my brother read them after being banned to touch them. he reeeally wanted those books when told he couldn't have them, but that's probably just a little brother thing :P

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

Welcome! I always mention that there's a huge twist at the end, and never gave it a thought that that might be a spoiler. Then I tell them that, as soon as I finished reading, I reread to find out what clues I had missed. Knowing that there is a surprise ending doesn't give anything away, imo.

*goes to look up Morris dancing*

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

Tailored recs. sound like a good idea. I really need to get more clever and more pushy with my book recommendations. At the moment, I'm actually rather loathe to do a personal recommendation. I then feel personally responsible if the person ends up disliking the book. I tend to put generalised recommendations on my LJ or in comments, in a "take them or leave them" sort of way. If people do start questioning me, I start hedging my bets, saying, "Oh, well, of course I liked it, but tastes vary, so you might not." I'm my own worst enemy when it comes to getting people to share my book loves. When I was 11, I even hid my favourite book in the school library, since I couldn't bear the thought of anyone else reading it and not loving it the way I did.

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

I know a lot of people who always read the ending of a book first. (My Mum does, for one.) It can create an entirely different - but equally enjoyable - reading experience. And, of course, some authors deliberately create that sort of experience, by letting the readers be party to a secret that the main characters don't know about. I just wish it was possible to selectively wipe one's memories of a book, so you can have the experience of reading it for the first time as many times as you like.

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

Hmm... Maybe I should try this form of reverse psychology on my friends. "No! Don't read them! Whatever you do, don't read them! They contain secrets you are not ready to know!"... ;-)

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

I'm probably being over-cautious. I just remember watching The Sixth Sense, when all the reviews went on and on about this enormous twist. Because of this, it totally stopped me from watching the film as a film. I was just playing "spot the twist." And I worked it out five minutes into the film. Had the reviews not mentioned the twist, I'd probably never have noticed it.

I'm now wondering what sort of things a quick internet look-up of Morris dancing reveals... ;-)

[sartorias.livejournal.com]

I only recommend the books to people I think will like them, and this includes students at my middle school. I know the kids' reading tastes pretty well, so I try to match books to kids--and if they want to share around a book, that's a good thing.

So far I haven't gotten a core group who loved Thief, but then our school only goes to eighth grade, so the kids are gone by age thirteen. I know that many here read it far younger but we have a sizable ESL population, and while their vocabularies can be quite huge, I notice that many do not have the reading protocols, or the cultural clues, or both, to take on more difficult reads.

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

Now that you mention it, I had a similar experience with The Sixth Sense. How about if you tell them (and I didn't make this up--I read it somewhere) that by the end of the book they'll either be in love with Gen, or they'll want to BE Gen. That worked well with my sixth graders.

I've been doing more booktalks this year and watching others do them, too. I've observed that the books the kids flock to read are the ones the teachers and librarians are passionate about. One teacher loves Good Night, Mr. Tom, and she has every kid dying to read it. I ran into one of the public librarians and she asked me, "What is it with the run on Good Night, Mr. Tom? I had to order more copies of it because so many kids put it on reserve."

I was able to find a decent video of Morris dancing. I've seen it before but didn't realize that was what it was called. I think it is cool, not sad at all!

[(Anonymous)]

I picked "The Thief" up a number of years ago, it was $2.99 and I was stocking up on summer reading for my kids. To the best of my knowledge, none of them have read it, but I liked it.

One, did pick it up last summer when he was eleven but didn't like it. He loves fantasy and I think he wants to be a nicer version of Artemis Fowl in real life, but the jail setting put him off. He is a kid who is oddly attuned to the fabrications adults use to make the world seem safer to kids, and I think he had a feeling that being in jail would be a whole lot scarier and more dangerous than described. So he dropped it for books that are more clearly fantasy and "unreal" danger, ie Percy Jackson, anything by Eoin Colfer, the Maximum Ride books.

Maybe even "Thief" just isn't going to appeal to boys? Maybe he was too young for that sort of "realistic fantasy".

-ELM-

Bribes

[peggy-2.livejournal.com]

I tell them they cannot read Legotollia until after they've read the series ... it worked with my daughter and her friends, but I suppose it's not terribly practical as on a more general basis. Or, for example, with checker's middle school kids.

Mostly I just rave and say it is a wonderful book I think they will enjoy, with adventure, clever text, very funny bits, and way cool gods walking through the story and stirring up trouble.

[sartorias.livejournal.com]

Well, so far, I've had a couple of boys read it all the way through and say "It was okay" afterward. But I haven't had anyone love it to pieces, boy or girl.

I did note that both boys loathed Queen, wouldn't finish it--in discussion, both seemed extremely put off by what I will call as shorthand the "hurt comfort" element of Queen; they both like plenty of violence in their reading, but that was comic book violence. This was two years apart, I should mention. I don't actually keep Queen at school, only Thief. (This is a very small private school, the only library we have is what we teachers bring ourselves.)

[(Anonymous)]

Yup, I've lived with two brothers and four sons as young readers, and I cannot imagine a boy liking either QoA or KoA.

As to the four sons, the three older are avid readers (the youngest is still learning to read, he is painstakingly working through the "Magic Treehouse" books, great books for little boys!), and it never ceases to amaze me how different their reading tastes can be. They frequently leave me thinking "hey that book was for your brother".

Making suggestions as a librarian must mean going out on a limb all the time.

-ELM-

[sartorias.livejournal.com]

Yes...given the trouble that some librarians get, I don't think I'd want to be one. I get too passionate about books! (Also, I don't have time to read widely in areas I have no interest in, which a good librarian does in order to find books for a spectrum of readers.)

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

I am a very bad librarian. I was always strangely reluctant to enthuse about my own favourite books. I couldn't be objective about them, and be confident that I was recommending something that the child in question was likely to love, and I just hated the idea of them returning to the library saying they hated it. (I put it in the past tense, since for the last 6 years I've not been based in an actual library, but doing advisary work behind the scenes.) I did tend to push certain books hard, and get a lot of children reading them, but they were often the ones I didn't like as much myself, but observed children liking.

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

I don't know about boys, but my husband really liked all three books. But, then, he is weird. While he isn't too fond of what he calls "pretty heroes wallowing in angst" (i.e. quite a lot of my favourite books!), he does tend to pick up anything I leave lying around, and read it. Openly. He has fairly often been known to sit there on the ferry to work, unashamedly reading - and enjoying - a book aimed squarely at 10 year old girls.

However, I will freely admit that one of the main reasons I love this series is that I am headlong in love with Gen. I doubt my husband feels the same - which is why he merely likes the series, and I adore it.

Re: Bribes

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

I think I'll just have to practice vague raving. "It's really really good! I love it! I adore it! It's amazing! I can't tell you anything about it, but just trust me. Rave! Rave! Rave!" Yup. That ought to do the trick. ;-)

Plus, I might add some threats. Threats are always good. :-)

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

I'm always a bit reluctant to recommend my own favourite books to children. It's stupid and irrational, but I have too much emotionally invested in the books in question, and I can't bear the thought of seeing them disliked. Plus, when I was a child, I was stupidly perverse and refused point blank to ever read anything that anyone recommended to me, ever. I wanted to find my own books. I missed out on so many great books as a result - many of which I went on to read as an adult, but really wished I'd read at the "right" age.

[generalblossom.livejournal.com]

I like your book tastes, if you got any book recs I am probably interested ( I am lacking book inspiration right now!).

I like recommending books but only when I really think people will really like it. Which means some books I love I would not recommend to people ( and people I like very much) while I have been very happy when giving books I did not like to friends I knew would love those worked. So if I was recommending the Thief I would probably mention some personal reason I would think the person would like either the book or the series but without mentioning the twist. I do warn that even if it does not look impressive at first, the tone of the series changes a lot with each book, and that The Thief is a lot better on reread, and there are things there which will be important later on. Though that later on is of course already the end of the very same novel ;)

[sartorias.livejournal.com]

Makes sense. What you describe reminds me of an unfortunatel incident when I was in my twenties, and I watched with growing concern as the well-meaning father of my oldest goddaughter kept being sat down with the Narnia books. He had loved them as a child--they had changed his life--he'd worn out copies and had to replace them, but saved those cherished worn out ones, so of course his daughter must love them. But she didn't. She felt about them like she felt about school assignments--this great moral obligation. In fact, she gave up reading for a very long time (though the Narnias weren't the issue, it tended to be her other relatives who kept giving her seventies Problem Novels for birthdays and holidays, all of which her mom felt she ought to read as they were gifts. one time when she was staying with me for a weekend she said sadly that she'd read so many books with kids having lieukemia and being raped and so forth that maybe someone was giving her a message about her. Anyway, she turned heavy duty Goth as a teen, and then picked up books again--mysteries--in her thirties.) The lesson in all this for me was that discovery is an important issue for some kids. my friend had discovered Narnia as a boy; her daughter wasn't left to discover anything, she was lovingly ordered to read everyone's favorites.

So I've been very careful as a teacher. I never show any emotion, I do ask why a kid likes or dislikes a book after reading it, and then only will I admit if the recommended book was a fave. Some kids really do want to be introduced to books, they are overwhelmed by choice. Others love the adventure of discovery. But kids are not subtle about cluing one in to which kind of reader they are, so that's an easy call!

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

*cringes with recognition.* We have a summer reading challenge in all our public libraries over here, when any child who reads six books over the summer gets a medal. The most important rule of all is: it must be the child's own choice of books. It can be "too easy". It can be "trashy." It can be non-fiction, comic books... anything they like. We offer guidance if asked (e.g. "Who else writes like...?") but never pressurise, and never, ever tell anyone to put a book back. Reading levels rocket during the summer, since the children are - for once - entirely free to read purely for enjoyment, and not as a chore.

However, it can be hard to convince the parents. Many of them think they are doing their child a favour by snatching the "too easy" book out of their hands and forcing them to read a "challenging" book - perhaps one of their own old favourites, impatiently pushed on the child far too young. They can't see that, all too often, they're putting their child off reading for life.

Um... Sorry. This is one of my pet rants.

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

Book recs...? Um... I find it very hard to recommend books off the top of my head, not without knowing what people have already read, what their tastes are, etc. :-)