I hadn't really thought about that before, because I immediately assumed since stealing it is part of the deal, it would never count as taking it by force. And your question make me think. If that's so, then it can be stolen back, stolen again, stolen anytime a thief could manage it (of course we readers know it can pretty much only be stolen with the approval of the gods, but that has to be a tempting target for anyone in the country trying to gain power). What if after he gave it to Eddis, someone stole it from her? Would that then legally (well traditionally) make whoever the thief gave it to the ruler? If so, the stone is not a set confirmation of rule, which then puts interesting light on the position of Queen's/King's thief. In that case, the Thief would continue to be the main defender of the ruler's right to power. The Royal thief would have to be the best, or someone else could steal the stone, crown their own ruler, and become the new Royal thief. The Royal Thief would be the guarantee that the ruler would stay on the throne because they could always steal it back if a lesser thief took it. Of course it wouldn't work quite like this, because of the whole, needing the Gods' approval part, but it's an interesting consideration of what the position might have meant in the past. I mean, it seems unlikely the gods have been that consistently involved in the nation's affairs and still be as doubted as they are at the beginning of the books. So likely it worked like that at some point. On the other hand, maybe the gap in belief is only indicative of the long time the stone has been hidden. And of course this only matters if the stone can be stolen more than once and at any point from the person it's been given to. It's just that the force argument doesn't quite ring true to me. Gen did give it to him, I'd say of his own choice, because it suited his plans. Gen spent a majority of the trip doing exactly what he wanted; the Magus did have power over him, but a lot less than he thought he had. And I really don't want to go with the theory that the gods made it okay. True, these gods have shown themselves perfectly willing 'cheat' with human affairs, but I don't like it. How active are the gods in human affairs anyway? Has anyone tracked that? Do they have any rules, or is it whatever they feel like? How much free will is there in this fictional universe?
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So it looks like everyone is satisfied and has gone on to other things, but...
Date: 11/4/08 11:06 pm (UTC)And your question make me think. If that's so, then it can be stolen back, stolen again, stolen anytime a thief could manage it (of course we readers know it can pretty much only be stolen with the approval of the gods, but that has to be a tempting target for anyone in the country trying to gain power).
What if after he gave it to Eddis, someone stole it from her? Would that then legally (well traditionally) make whoever the thief gave it to the ruler? If so, the stone is not a set confirmation of rule, which then puts interesting light on the position of Queen's/King's thief. In that case, the Thief would continue to be the main defender of the ruler's right to power. The Royal thief would have to be the best, or someone else could steal the stone, crown their own ruler, and become the new Royal thief. The Royal Thief would be the guarantee that the ruler would stay on the throne because they could always steal it back if a lesser thief took it.
Of course it wouldn't work quite like this, because of the whole, needing the Gods' approval part, but it's an interesting consideration of what the position might have meant in the past. I mean, it seems unlikely the gods have been that consistently involved in the nation's affairs and still be as doubted as they are at the beginning of the books. So likely it worked like that at some point. On the other hand, maybe the gap in belief is only indicative of the long time the stone has been hidden. And of course this only matters if the stone can be stolen more than once and at any point from the person it's been given to.
It's just that the force argument doesn't quite ring true to me. Gen did give it to him, I'd say of his own choice, because it suited his plans. Gen spent a majority of the trip doing exactly what he wanted; the Magus did have power over him, but a lot less than he thought he had. And I really don't want to go with the theory that the gods made it okay. True, these gods have shown themselves perfectly willing 'cheat' with human affairs, but I don't like it. How active are the gods in human affairs anyway? Has anyone tracked that? Do they have any rules, or is it whatever they feel like? How much free will is there in this fictional universe?