Eddis, Attolia, Sounis

Checkers, you rule.

I think Relius was ultimately forgiven because of his mad style.

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mycenaeth.livejournal.com

He was too badass to kill off or exile? XD

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Hey, you wear something that gaudy, Gen's gonna be all "First, that's mine; second, we must be homeboys. It is the destiny of our bling!"

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This doesn't answer your question in any way, but I found some recent mentions of MWT's books by other readers, which I thought might be of interest. (Hope this works)

http://rushthatspeaks.livejournal.com/200234.html

http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/?p=287

http://oyceter.livejournal.com/402707.html#cutid1

http://www.hatrack.com/osc/reviews/everything/2006-02-12.shtml

dh

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dannybailey.livejournal.com

Ooh, you always come up with the best questions!

Ok, hmmm...

1. I think everyone would agree that Relius was tortured because that was what he had taught the queen to do, and she wanted to show that she learned from him enough to know that she could not make exceptions even for people she loves. Maybe this ties in with the motivations of other characters? Foreshadowing tells me that it may be Eugenides who will have to make the sacrifices and perhaps choose between his duty and his loved ones. Sound correct?

But, why was Relius then forgiven? My only idea on that Eugenides is having an effect of Attolia. His methods are becoming integrated with hers. Attolia got her point across by not sparing even a friend from justice, but Eugenides also got what he wanted. Perhaps this shows how complimentary the two are for each other? (And that my romantic two-cents on that.)

2. I was wondering this myself. When the king goes down to the prison to release Relius he says that he is going to indulge himself. I don't think I understand exactly what he meant by that. And then when he misses sitting by Relius one night he apologizes as though he owes it to Relius. Again, is this just Eugenides kind nature, or is there something else. I don't think, but I think it's a really good question!

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Thanks for the links, dh.

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mycenaeth.livejournal.com

XDDDDD

Is that all Hamiathes' Gift was? Glorified Bling? egads...

*feels need to draw fanart of Eddis with a big shiny piece of bling around her neck saying something like "Q of E yo" or "Edd to the Is"*

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Fo' shizzle, my ninjizzle!

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Yeah, Attolia had him tortured to find out exactly how far his treachery went. Then when she and the king found out that he wasn't a traitor he was just...well, getting some...and blabbed to his female friend, they were able to forgive that.

Eugenides said he went to the prison to find out if Relius was still loyal to Attolia. And when he believed that Relius was, he pardoned him. For Relius' sake (he supported Attolia all those years) and Attolia's sake (she cared for Relius and needed him). But also for Gen's own sake. He hated having anyone killed, and I think he had respect for Relius and his power (and bling). I think maybe that's why he was always polite to Relius, because he was a little afraid of him and knew how much Attolia depended on him.

Oops, gotta get to work. They may fire me yet.

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rowana.livejournal.com

*looks guilty* Sounis has been a bit neglected recently. I'll post a notice for the next livechat in a minute. :)

I agree with Dannybailey, and with your last comment Checkers. I think ultimately it was more or less what Gen told Relius, because he was willing to pay for his crimes, just as Gen had been. Stealing is, after all, ultimately not exactly a noble art. Relius was still loyal to Irene, and he was responsible for her methods, and Irene still needed him.

I think Gen in particular came to him because, well, it's implied within the book that Relius and Teleus needed to be won around to his side. That may well have been one motive. Gen also knew what coming out of torture was like, what the fears associated with it were. To have left Relius alone would have been cruel, in a way.

But yes, fantastic questions Checkers. I'll have a go at digging out the old discussion questions that were posted a while ago.

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Good point, Ro. I thought, too, that Gen sat with Relius because he knew first-hand how it felt to be in that prison, injured and scared, as well as how long it took to get over all that. Gen was fortunate enough to have the support of his family once he got home. Although I've always wondered why his sisters and brothers never visited him, and his father and Eddis only weekly or so. I guess he isolated himself and wouldn't see other people.

By the end of their time together, Gen and Relius came to care about one another. The part where Gen kisses him on the forehead was very well done, I thought. Handled in a different way, it could have been cheesy or unintentionally funny, but it was touching.

Really, I think Gen saved Relius just for Attolia's sake. So she wouldn't bear the burden of scything down another person. I can't wait to see how Relius' experiences change him. If he will be a wiser, more empathic person. Certainly he'll be extremely loyal to the king.

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All bling aside, I agree. If she had to hurt someone else she loved for the sake of "being a queen" I think eventually, it would have had greatly damaging effects on her. She's sort of learning that you CAN trust people, that you CAN allow yourself to love people, and that neither of those are weaknesses.

Gen should totally write a self-help book XD It would be the Best Scam Ever.

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Oooh, good point about the trust, etc. Because Gen loved her and trusted that she was good, she was changing and becoming a wiser, more compassionate ruler.

Gen should totally write a self-help book XD It would be the Best Scam Ever.

Ha. Yeah, he'd be like the guy on Oprah who wrote the book that was all fake, while escaping with all the bling.

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LOL!

I never really thought of Relius in that light. I'm tepted to pick up KoA a third time just to adjust my image of him.

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I have a condession to make. The first time I read KoA (keep in mind I was so deliriously happy that I rushed through, reading it within a couple hours, instead of catching up on much needed sleep) I mistakenly thought that Relius was actually one of the asassins who attacked Gen in the garden.

I guess when Gen pointed to the third assasin who he suspected might still be alive I expected him to be someone we were familiar with. Then, when we see Relius again in the prison and the guards seem disgusted with him, I assumed that the Erondites attendant (can't believe I don't remember is name) let Relius out of prison to use him for his plan and that Relius was that third assasin and that his injuries were from Gen beating him (not from the torture).

Of course, I was mistaken and I realized that with my second reading.

Hopefully you're all able to filter through my never ending run-on sentences and understand what I'm trying to say. X)

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Something I wondered about is how Gen knew Relius was lying to Attolia. The book never says, although we know that Gen was able to find things out by skulking around the palace in the middle of the night. And when Irene immediately believed him and had Relius arrested, that said a lot about their relationship and how she trusted Gen's judgement.

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mycenaeth.livejournal.com

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cyberskiver.livejournal.com

I think Gen is probably very good at spotting liars, though he may have known something through skulking around at night.

Was it Relius who told Attolia that someday someone she loved might betray her? Could that be foreshadowing?

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Those were very interesting, thank you.

I wonder if the two livejournal user's know about our community.

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dannybailey.livejournal.com

It takes a philanderer to know when someone is philandering.

I believe it was the very wise Eddis who said that?

Well, it also takes a liar to know when one is lying. See, her wisdom is panapplicable (<--- I totally made that word up. If it goes into the dictionary I want credit!)

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I like it. I shall use it in a sentence at work tomorrow. Everyone will nod wisely, as if they know what I'm talking about.

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karwei.livejournal.com

I really ought or re-read KoA. I've read The Thief too many times to count, but KoA only once, and, in the words of Cherryblosomjen, "I was so deliriously happy that I rushed through." I have so many questions about /problems with that book that I think a good re-reading could cure.

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Yes! And you could write any questions or theories you get from the re-read here, so we can all share in the experience. :)

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karwei.livejournal.com

I'm gonna have to read through some older posts to see what's already been discussed. ;)

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Yeah, I worry about being repetitive too. But honestly, I don't think anyone would mind too much if we did discuss something again.

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anon8.livejournal.com

It also revealed to the court that Gen wasn't as weak as they thought: he ordered the arrest of one of the queen's supporters not because he was unstable and young (people kept thinking he wanted to get rid of Teleus and Relius, but he really didn't), but because Relius really did lie to her

also, I thought he kinda saved Relius's life by ordering his arrest immediately...if Gen hadn't, or if the queen hadn't trusted Gen's decision, Relius would have written out his confession and taken poison...and the queen would have lost someone she trusted in a totally devastating way: it would have seemed more of a betrayal because all she would have been left with was his failure and his death, but this way she realizes the failure was human mistake and that he truly was unwaveringly loyal to her

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