Driven

[sgwordy.livejournal.com]

I think I was inspired by the awesome vanity plate pic... I was thinking about the structure of the QT books and whether they were plot-driven or character-driven. They are certainly of a genre that is very typically plot-driven but I don't think it is only plot that moves the books along. What do y'all think? And do you prefer books that are plot-driven or character-driven? 

(I wasn't sure how to search this topic in the archives but if anyone knows of discussions like this would you mind posting links to the older posts? Thanks!)
 

Comments

ask and ye shall receive

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

http://community.livejournal.com/sounis/165599.html

And this one, maybe sort of:
http://community.livejournal.com/sounis/118872.html

[thelasteddis.livejournal.com]

Character-driven. Definately. I am one of the people who believes that there are very few 'original' stories out there (I know this sounds very negative, so keep reading before you start throwing tomatoes at me).

So I think characters are what make a story interesting. Come on, how many books are there with this plotline: kid is downtrodden, kid realizes he is special in some magic way, kid has adventure, kid realizes his inner light (as it is called by my english teacher). So many times, right? but we still love books like Harry Potter. It's because, in my opinion, of the characters and the way they interact.

That's one of the reasons I love QT so much. The characters are FANTASTIC. If it weren't for Attolia's believability, would ANY of us have liked QoA? seriously? Just think about it. If Irene hadn't been carried off with so much skill, we all would have just said, "what the heck, this is perverted" and left it at that. I run into this whenever I'm talking about the books to someone else. They think it's stupid because they DON'T KNOW THE CHARACTERS. But because there are such marvelous characters, we wouldn't have the plot any other way!

And thus sayest me.

[annikah.livejournal.com]

I agree. The other day a group of friends and I were talking about fairy tales. One commented about Beauty & the Beast being perverted because the girl fell in love with her captor (and what message does that teach children?). It made me think of Attolia and Gen, and how messed up that could be if that's ALL you knew about them.

At the same time, there is *some* element of plot driving stories. The gods interfere. If Attolia caught Gen, if Nahuseresh hadn't intervened at just the right time, the story would have been completely different. I guess certain bits of the plot set the ball rolling, and the rest is left to the characters.

Eddis puts it perfectly: "If I am a pawn of the gods, it is because they know me so well, not because they make my decisions for me."

[coyul.livejournal.com]

On Beauty and the Beast, Stockholm Syndrome isn't perverted per se, so I don't know why they'd say that. XD;

To the question of whether the story is plot or character driven, I agree with this. It's definitely both. At some points, character, at others, plot. It's a nice mix and I think that's what makes the books so spectacular.

[inkasrain.livejournal.com]

Largely character-driven, certainly, but I think the books are also deceptively plot-driven-- the caveat being that we really don't *know* exactly what is going on most of the time (although we think we do) and can't actually see how plot-driven the story really is. I just re-read QoA and KoA and was actually shocked how much was going on that I couldn't see the first time around.

[tiegirl.livejournal.com]

wow! impressive! and welcome...you fit right in!

kulai on cellphone

[(Anonymous)]

I say its primarily character driven and drives the plot through it. Character is what makes me like the story or not. I always find it annoying when I read a sequal and the main characters of the first book is no longer the main focus but is there at the side, while there's another new character.
No worries for this book.

[rosaleeluann.livejournal.com]

Both, in my opinion. Each holds up the other. I mean, how many times has MWT's brilliant plotting been praised in this community? And the characters, well, thats obvious.

But I agree with what TLE said about plots being the same, made interesting by characters. I mean, Hero's Journey, anyone? (*is a nerd*)

But back to my original point--the characters would be nothing without the events, or plot, surrounding them. The plot gives the characters interesting things to do, but these interesting situations and events would actually be quite boring without good characters.

[thelasteddis.livejournal.com]

Whoops! on reread, my post does look a little like I ONLY read for characters, which couldn't be less true. The plot is uberly important, otherwise it would just be a bunch of people sitting in a room. Old Man and the Sea, anyone?
(gods, I hated that book)

[thelasteddis.livejournal.com]

Oh! I was just studying the hero's journey! Very interesting how many books can fit into it.

My grandpa is writing a business book following the hero journey - weird, I know. He's always talking about it appealing to the 'next generation' because this generation has a shorter attention span and needs plot (and, I think to myself, actual interest) to follow along in a class, unlike the good old days when people sat in lectures and gosh darn it they were happy to do so. He obviously thinks he's being very innovative and progressive - I'm trying not to burst his bubble. It's a novel about business put together by a bunch of execs and college professors. More fun that a barrel o' monkeys, eh?

I hope he doensn't ask me to read it. Note appropriate icon.

[zumie-ashlen.livejournal.com]

Absolutely. I love books where the main draw is the characters, but they're growing few in recent times.

If anyone has any recs, I'd love you forever. Especially YA ones. ^.^

[peggy-2.livejournal.com]

Read through some of the While She Knits posts for ideas. The Sounis comm has truly awesome reading lists. In the meantime, if you haven't come across them yet, the Vorkosigan saga by Lois McMaster Bujold is a good bet for fans of Eugenides.

[kitsune-rains.livejournal.com]

Well, that sounds pretty amazing to me. Next thing you know they'll be conducting classes on a Make Your Own Adventure scheme. How cool would that be? Of course, I would probably fail. I always die in those things...

But addressing this "Hero's Journey" business. Personally, I don't like saying that there are only a few plots out there. Of course there are only a few, if you make the criterion so general anything will fit into it! But a plot isn't what can be boiled down to a few words, it's also the twists and the blind turns. All of the convolutions and oddity.

So, yeah, if you draw a line from point A to point B, then there is no original plot. But you also miss all of the fun, and originality.

[pigrescuer.livejournal.com]

*seconds*

Also The Gentlemen Bastards by Scott Lynch.

[pigrescuer.livejournal.com]

It's true that when you try to describe the books to somebody else it's almost impossible to explain how and why they're so good. The plot (especially without spoilers) sounds very mundane, and without describing ever character sand every little bit of interaction and bit of dialogue the AWESOMENESS can't be captured.

[peggy-2.livejournal.com]

*seconds the Scott Lynch books*

[inkasrain.livejournal.com]

Agreed. I've had to tell all of those I've infected not to read the Amazon page for QoA... unfortunately I was spoiled for that before I even read The Thief. (And I've found it's also hard to hook people with the line "They are even better the second time around!" It seems like too much of a time investment, I suppose...)

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

I suppose I'm more likely to read great characters with a so-so plot than a great plot with so-so characters.

So, I'd say characters over plot. So, so, so.

[(Anonymous)]

I think the plots are sometimes ridiculously complicated, and if the characters were different, things would be simpler. so, the characters drive the plot... in my opinion :)

[tiegirl.livejournal.com]

Oh dear, lookit this, a soapbox!

*Climbs on*

K. M. Peyton's Pennington's Last Term, The Beethoven Medal, Pennington's Heir

Joan D. Vinge's Psion, Catspaw, Dreamfall

*Steps off*

[tiegirl.livejournal.com]

Hah! Me too! I also like movies in the same way, sorta, or at least parallel. They must have good acting, regardless of the plot.

[thelasteddis.livejournal.com]

That's what I mean... It's the characters, and the twists and turns that they inspire, that makes the plot interesting. At least that's what I think.

[thelasteddis.livejournal.com]

I actually like complicated plots, as long as they're handled well, and you can follow along mostly. I normally like a little confusion (the QoA kidnap is a good example!). Do you mean any book specifically? since you say 'the'.

[zumie-ashlen.livejournal.com]

Awesome! I'll check it out.

[zumie-ashlen.livejournal.com]

Oooh, thanks. I think I've heard of the last three, actually.

*flees to bookstore*

[sgwordy.livejournal.com]

This is so true! I still have not figured out the most compelling non-spoilers summary or how to convey how worth it it is to essentially start them over immediately upon completion. :) I have noticed though that not one person has come back and said they didn't like them once they did finally read them.

Re: ask and ye shall receive

[sgwordy.livejournal.com]

Thanks for these posts! Great discussions!

[sgwordy.livejournal.com]

I think characters slightly edge plot for me, as well. But a great plot is tons of fun. One of my favorite things about this series is how intimately tied events are to characters (and vice verse). I agree with what gypsymoongate said. I can't imagine these plots without these characters (and again vice versa:) and I really like that. Because of how intertwined plot is with character, events never feel contrived. The flow is so natural and every twist is believable. It's like a very exciting roller coaster. I never want to get off.