Annux, Arthur, and Old Testament politics

[philippas.livejournal.com]

So, I feel slightly embarrassed for putting up three posts in a row, but what the heck - it's the weekend, and I have burning questions! (Or at least itchy ones.)

I'm fascinated by this concept of Annux - and Gen's apparent destiny as king of kings - and I'm trying to align it with a particular historical or mythical inspiration. Classical Greece, if I'm remembering my very weak ancient history correctly, was a collection of city states without one uniting leader, right? We do have uniting conquerors - like Alexander and Julius Caesar (once Rome appears on the stage), but in the particular case of Eugenides, this doesn't seem like a good parallel. Eddis, Sounis, and Attolia need unity to keep out the invading power; those men kind of were the invading power; Gen's destiny is (apparently) to become high king of only a particular set of countries and strictly for those countries' good, not because he's completely bent on achieving power.

What it actually reminds me most of is the British legend about the coming of Arthur, where he becomes high king in Britain, not because he has a bigger army than everyone else but because he's destined to be. Being a Victorianist, I depend rather heavily on Tennyson for my opinions and information about Arthurian legend, so indulge me for a second here:

For many a petty king ere Arthur came
Ruled in this isle, and ever waging war
Each upon other, wasted all the land;
And still from time to time the heathen host
Swarm'd overseas, and harried what was left
....
And after these King Arthur for a space,
And thro' the puissance of his Table Round,
Drew all their petty princedoms under him,
Their king and head, and made a realm, and reign'd. (Idylls 1: 5-9, 16-19)

Isn't that a pretty good description of what has happened and what will (hopefully) happen in E/S/A?

The other comparison I thought of was the ancient tribes of Israel, who were being harried by other people's and demanded a king to lead them into battle. Saul, the first king, is something like Gen in that he was more or less dragged into it kicking and screaming - when the time came for him to be presented to all the people, he tried to hide in the baggage.

So, thoughts? Additions to my scanty historical knowledge?

Comments

[tiegirl.livejournal.com]

Ok, I can't help you because I don't know this stuff, but my brother might be able to help. I just want to direct you also to history_haven. Sounds like it's right up your alley! It was started by some smart people of Sounis (are there any other kind?) and I'm pretty sure we/they are looking for more members, right TLE?

Arthur, et.al.

[rrelf.livejournal.com]

For someone who claims scant historical knowledge, your insights are astute. I particularly like the comparisons to Arthur, although my own grounding in the Arthurian legends is not based so much on Tennysonian romance. Arthur was probably a compilation of several war lords who rose to leadership in the fourth or fifth century and felt the need to end the constant batterings of neighbors and invaders in the wake of the waning to almost non-existent Roman legacy. Almost in self-defense, he/they overcame his immediate neighbors and then, from that position of strength, went on to conquer or unite with most of south west Britain, bringing the area to peace for the first time in over 300 years. This ultimately laid the groundwork for Alfred 1, arguably the first true king of England, to unite all the remaining tribal kingdoms and convince the Danes that peace was a good idea after all.

Of course, the Tennysonian model is, I think, much more akin to what is happening in E/S/A., although of course MWT is an original and direct parallels just don't work.

I agree with you that the Greek city state system is not an adequate model. Nor is the analogy of the tribes of Israel exact, if only because they were much more closely related to each other and essentially in agreement with each other to begin with.

A thought I had, not as clever or attuned as the Arthurian legend, was of the Allied powers before and during WWII. These were separate, disparate countries having to come together, many of them quite reluctantly, to fight one or more common enemies/invaders. Some resisted on their own, some were overcome, but ultimately they united under a single military leader and a committee (of three) of political leaders. The single military leader had to quite forcefully bring his allies to heel, to conquer egos and politics and then to bring out the best plans from all, prior to even beginning to address the problems of overcoming the enemies from without.
Anyway, Philippas, I very much enjoy your posts and look forward to reading more clever ideas and analogies from you.

[traboule.livejournal.com]

Alcibiades. Not a perfect event parallel, but I want to see the Mede emperor as Xerxes at the Battle of Salamis.

And Alcibiades is lovely.

[gauroth.livejournal.com]

No additions, but I'm preparing 'Saul and David' for next week's Junior Church session, and re-reading the relevant parts of 2 Samuel. What an epic story it is! The Kingdom is threatened on all sides, there are battles with the enemy (in which David is awesome) yet Saul is obsessed with David as a rival and goes chasing him around the country when he should be fighting the enemies who want to invade.

Poor Saul: he was chosen for a job he wasn't quite able to do and he took his eye off the ball. Gen wouldn't do that. In fact, in that situation Gen would be the best choice for a leader: he's sneaky enough to win any way he can. That's one reason I love him so much!

another thing about Israel

[styromgalleries.livejournal.com]

Nor is the analogy of the tribes of Israel exact, if only because they were much more closely related to each other and essentially in agreement with each other to begin with.
I guess this won't mean much if you're not a follower of Judaism or Christianity, but anyway: according to the Bible, God wasn't too happy with Israel's desire for a king. It was more a lack of faith on their part than a real need for a king.

[thelasteddis.livejournal.com]

Always!

[bellawilfer.livejournal.com]

I was going to say that I don't think that Gen is quite a Saul. For one thing, Saul, rather than trust it to God, is (like you said) obsessed with David as a rival. David was clearly the anointed one and next in line to be king after Saul's death.

I always got the impression that Gen is more along the lines of David in the sense that the gods are rooting for him and setting it up for him to be king. :-)

[openedlocket.livejournal.com]

I don't have much to contribute other than what you have already said. But I would like to add that even if Saul was unwilling he made a great king in the end.

Although if memory serves me right there was this incident in which he disobeyed God's orders. And he was quite jealous of David who everyone loved after the defeat of Goliath. He tried to get David killed once or twice.

So there, since you pretty much summed up everything I thought I'd just put some more of Saul's story in. Just some Biblical and historical discussion. With all the historical knowledge you possess you should go to history_haven, I know it was suggested before but I thought I should say it again to make sure you are properly encouraged.

Re: Arthur, et.al.

[philippas.livejournal.com]

Yes, definitely the direct parallels don't work - I think MWT effectively and repeatedly squashes that possibility in her author's notes at the ends of the books where she says "It's not real!" Which, good for her, by the way. After the Da Vinci fiasco, there's no anticipating what people will and won't believe, even when they read it in a novel.

That was an interesting point about the Allies in WW2. I realized that although I have miscellaneous collection of knowledge about that war, the politics of the American military supervision is something I actually know nothing about. Anyway, it's a much more modern example, and interesting to think about, particularly since issues of empire have become so fraught in the last century and especially recent decades.

[gauroth.livejournal.com]

Yes, I can see a lot of parallels between David (at least before he saw Bathsheba!) and Gen. Both have great integrity and a sense of duty to the king/queens.

I'm sorry, I didn't make it clear enough that I don't think Gen is like Saul (though I do feel sorry for Saul, promoted above his level of competence!)

[philippas.livejournal.com]

Had to wikipedia Alcibiades, but he does sound lovely! "He favored unconventional tactics, frequently winning cities over by treachery or negotiation rather than by siege." My kind of man!

[philippas.livejournal.com]

Well, let's not forget the Saul was anointed by God through the prophet Samuel. He wasn't seizing power that didn't belong to him, but was maneuvered into it by God. His later failure was a result of his disobedience to the direction of the prophet Samuel.

It will be extremely interesting to watch how Gen's relationship with the gods develops as he rises to greater levels of power.

[traboule.livejournal.com]

Oops, sorry about lack of cross-references! I was in a hurry at the time, and I figured Wiki could do a better summary than I could.

At some point a little while ago I started thinking of Alcibiades as the Gen of Athens (disrespectful, very powerful but very odd) and now I'd love to see more comparisons.

Re: another thing about Israel

[crazededdisian.livejournal.com]

And also, Saul became rather crazy at the end of his reign. Probably not Israel.

[crazededdisian.livejournal.com]

Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes...!

[cyberskiver.livejournal.com]

While we're talking about reluctant kings, here's a fun one: Emperor Claudius of Rome (41 AD-54 AD) His several disabilities not only led people to underestimate him, but meant he had a lonely childhood (although he spent a lot of his time reading). He became emperor after Caligula was murdered by his own bodyguard, at a time when all of Rome was in confusion and turmoil. Stories say he was found cowering behind a tapestry somewhere. (Something Eugenides would never do.)

(A painting of the happy event can be found here: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:A_Roman_Emperor_AD41_detail1byAlmaTadema1871.jpg)

Claudius had a definite cruel streak (seems like most Roman emporers did) but he did bring some much-needed stability to Rome and managed Rome's client kingdoms pretty well. Like Eugenides, he might have been able to use people's underestimation of him to his own advantage.

For more information: http://www.roman-emperors.org/claudius.htm

Re: another thing about Israel

[styromgalleries.livejournal.com]

Haha. Yeah, let's hope Gen doesn't end up going crazy. Let's see, who would play David to his Saul? Sophos? ;)

[styromgalleries.livejournal.com]

Stories say he was found cowering behind a tapestry somewhere. (Something Eugenides would never do.)
Except to stir things up in court, of course.

[philippas.livejournal.com]

Or to avoid some of his more awful relatives.

[tearoha.livejournal.com]

No, Gen is strictly cowering behind altar curtains ONLY.
:DD

[sgwordy.livejournal.com]

hehe

[pigrescuer.livejournal.com]

But that's not from emperor-cidal bodyguards, that's from himself.

[tearoha.livejournal.com]

Presenting 'Emperor-cidal', the word for today!

Re: another thing about Israel

[crazededdisian.livejournal.com]

Are you sure Gen isn't already crazy? (I'm kidding, of course. Or maybe I'm crazy...) :D

Re: another thing about Israel

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

Gen is crazy as hell. That's why people who know what he's capable of are afraid of him.

Re: another thing about Israel

[crazededdisian.livejournal.com]

He he. True. ;)

[filkferengi]

As a topical [& on-topic!] cure for burning & itchy questions, I recommend repeated application of books by authors whose initials are mwt & lmb [Lois McMaster Bujold, who regularly recommends mwt all over her list].