Sounisian Munchies

[drashizu.livejournal.com]

This is sort of a two-course post. First, fantasy food clichés. Then wine.



I've been reading a lot of really traditional sword-and-sorcery stories lately (and also, to combat the inevitable effects, DWJ's Tough Guide to Fantasyland to lighten the mood) and something that strikes me is how often the food of choice is stew. Followed closely by porridge, bread, and some poor rabbit who's been roasted over a campfire and seasoned with a whole lot of nothing. And I noticed how in MWT's books there is such greater variety for her characters to eat.

For instance, in The Thief alone we got oatmeal and bread, true, but also oranges, yogurt, olives, raw garden vegetables, and dried meat. We saw onions by the roadside too. Food didn't feature in the second book very strongly, but did contain olive oil for dipping, and nonspecific kinds of meat and vegetables. In the third book Costis got cheese and olives to go along with his stew, and in the fourth book there's lamb, grapes, more chicken, and iced cake.

Has anyone else noticed how much effort MWT puts into giving her characters a realistic diet that includes all of the major food groups? For me that's one of the things that keeps her books from ever, ever feeling like "standard" fantasy fare. (lol, pun intended.)

And while I have to say I was a bit disappointed by the appearance of a tavern in the fourth book, as opposed to the Greek-feeling and less clichéd "wineshops" she used in the first book, I liked that Gen and Sophos drank wine, not ale/mead/beer.

Which brings me to point two: there's so much wine in QT, has anyone else noticed? I mean, I counted seven different scenes containing wine in some way in ACoK alone. I probably missed some. The other books have a lot, too, except for TT, where it's mentioned but not seen. And then there's this new thing, "remchik." It feels odd to me that there would be so much drinking going on in a kid's book, but not only are these the least kid-friendly kid's books I've ever read, they're also set in pseudo Greece where I guess wine was the beverage of choice for people who could afford it. What are your reactions?

And what other clichés have you noticed Megan neatly sidestepping in writing the QT series? (for example, couples where the man is always older than the woman, or heroes who give stirring speeches and succeed in changing the minds of entire assemblies with nothing more than idealism)

Comments

[rosaleeluann.livejournal.com]

Another thing they always carry around in fantasy novels is cheese. Cheese? Maybe its just because I'm not especially fond of the stuff raw (love it melted, though) it always gives me a sour taste in my mouth when I read about it. And doesn't it, like, go bad on these long journeys they're always going on?

What we need is more YA fantasy that is NOT set in a world based on the British Isles... or just Europe in general. I'm not saying that books in those settings are bad, they're just... not unique, and therefore less interesting. Why not try writing with completely different continents/countries in mind?

[thnidu.livejournal.com]

The Song of Wirrun (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Song-Wirrun-Coming-Bright-Behind/dp/0140365885).

Hm, not much info on it there. Scroll down to the customer reviews of the first in the trilogy, The Ice is Coming (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0345332482/cracksandshar-20).

[freenarnian.livejournal.com]

And what other clichés have you noticed Megan neatly sidestepping in writing the QT series?

The whole Mentor Must Die thing. CoK spoiler ahead! When the Magus fakes it and scares Sophos half to death... I was seriously worried that MWT was stepping into this cliché. So of course I was terrifically pleased when she side-stepped it in such an amusing way. How could I have doubted her, really? A couple others like Relius and Teleus come to mind, too, as good mentor types that serve greater purposes by remaining alive. Okay, Pol is an exception. But it's sweet how Sophos remembers him from time to time...

[drashizu.livejournal.com]

I think the magus heart attack scene is one of my favorites from ACoK! It terrified me at first and yet now every time his face turns red I just start laughing.

[drashizu.livejournal.com]

I know! Cheese goes bad really fast in my house, anyway. Maybe if you don't mind eating it slimy it'll stay good for a couples days wrapped up, but... ugh. I wouldn't.

[agh-4.livejournal.com]

WE EAT THE CHEESE NOW!

(or else it'll go moldy really fast)

[agh-4.livejournal.com]

Food! And your "stew"/T.G.t.F.L. reference is making me laugh.

These are lovely observations! (And I'd like to note that there's also ceremonial bread in QoA and a pastry in KoA!)

Yes, I have noticed this about the wine! It has so many different roles (I typed "rolls" at first -- more food! Oh, and that reminds me: the roll in ACoK!) ... and at the same time it doesn't exactly figure into the plot much. And omg Remchik!

Thinking about cliches mentioned in the Tough Guide: There isn't really a Missing Heir (character who JUST TURNS OUT to be royal, having never known it before because he/she was swapped at birth or orphaned). HOWEVER, both Sophos and Gen turn out to be royal, we just didn't know about it before.

[thelasteddis.livejournal.com]

Ha ha, I've having trouble getting through one series of sword-and-sorcery. Mwt has spoiled me, I guess... I can't stand the clichés. Plus the particular specimen (the Obsidian series) doesn't have the greatest writing, either... but a friend recommended them to me and I'm enjoying the plot, at least. And the bad guys are great....

The ironic thing is that I'm more affected when a horse dies in this book than any of the major characters. XD

The reason there's so much wine, I think, is that in certain societies in Europe, wine was just safer to drink. Water was often contaminated. I assume that QT world is either in that stage or just so used to wine by now that they still drink it.

[drashizu.livejournal.com]

OMG you're right the pastry! During breakfast! How could I forget that scene?

[agh-4.livejournal.com]

Oh, don't worry. We can't, all of us, keep our memories from flaking away!

[hazelwillow.livejournal.com]

I've had the impression for a while that Gen *could* be a borderline alcoholic, if wine "worked" to hide his feelings. As he points out every time he tries, it "doesn't work," so I guess he isn't. But it's interesting that the book is upfront about his using alcohol that way --another way it's realistic in its depiction of the effects of trauma. Someone in Sounis (sorry, I don't remember who) wondered if other people in Gen's family might have been alcoholics (his mother, maybe?), because the MoW is so very stern about it when Gen gets drunk in QoA.
It's certainly an interesting character trait, and a realistic one I think. I like that MWT's characters have negative traits to balance out their, well, genius.

[rosaleeluann.livejournal.com]

Wow, that looks like an interesting read... though unfortunately, the local library system doesn't have it.

[ejmam.livejournal.com]

The emphasis in the second book was food preparation -- what you can eat with one hand. This got mentioned in the third book as well. I guess Gen wasn't even caring much what ended up in his mouth.

Mary Renault's Greece is also full of wine drinking (mostly diluted, which happens in MWT's land as well). I see the cheeses as fairly hard fetas, which are good for picnics. I think harder cheeses are what you take on trips.

The kids I know love the books; I think they are kid friendly but maybe not educator-friendly.

[msmcknittington.livejournal.com]

Hard, aged cheeses actually store really well and pack a lot of energy per ounce. All that fat and protein! And in an age before refrigeration . . . eh, if your cheese gets mold on it, just cut it off. It'll all be fine!

[msmcknittington.livejournal.com]

The emphasis in the second book was food preparation -- what you can eat with one hand.

Or what can have sand added to it. :(

[msmcknittington.livejournal.com]

The thing about most fantasy novels is that they're set in pseudo-medieval lands, and non-rich people in the middle ages did eat a whole heck of a lot of stew/pottage/porridge/other things that can be added to a pot and stretched with water. As for wine and beer/ale, they also drank a lot of that, as getting a little buzzed at breakfast is so much better than having cholera. Though small beer or watered wine isn't as potent as the straight stuff, so you'd have to drink lots and lots to get even the slightest buzz, even if you were a child. People in the past drank a lot more alcoholic beverages on a daily basis than we do, since we have water sanitation.

So, people get bored reading about all the stew and porridge all the time, but most people in a medieval or Renaissance period had really boring diets, unless they had money. The thing that sets the MWT books apart is that rather than being set in pseudo England or France, they're set in the pseudo Mediterranean, so the diet is different because the climate is different. They're also about royalty who are actively governing their countries, so there's the presumption of wealth there. I mean, apart from the first one when they're all incognito.

[tencups-i-swear.livejournal.com]

I think you're thinking of Attolia telling MoW that maybe he should drink less before she sends him out to take the message to Eddis?

[pigrescuer.livejournal.com]

Ah, no, cheese is excellent! You know I went on that trek to Siberia last summer? If you need a source of protein, cheese wins over meat every time. And proportional to weight, it's better than meat or nuts.

The best thing I learnt for trekking which I could imagine fantasy novels using but perhaps authors haven't heard of is a ukranainian speciality (we met some ukrainians in a hut up a glacier) - smoked pork fat on a cracker with a piece of raw garlic on top. :D And if you have time, it's gorgeous fried.

[pigrescuer.livejournal.com]

lol I was going to say exactly that! I was in Prague recently (the home of beer!) and in the PRague City Museum there were all these examples of beer in the diet of the poor in the middle ages and how Prague grew rich on export.

As for wine and olives, they would've been the cheapest thing around in the mediterranean, so naturally you'd eat it.

[(Anonymous)]

Might I suggest Nancy Farmer's A Girl Named Disaster? In which there is much trekking in southern Africa. Or her The Ear, the Eye, and the Arm where they trek about a futuristic city based in south Africa?

[keestone.livejournal.com]

In an age before refrigeration? Did I miss a memo about not cutting mold off of cheese anymore? It's not like moldy fruit.

[magicsandwiches.livejournal.com]

Oh, Agh. Everything you say makes me laugh!

Cheese? Plus, more fantasy foods!

[deirdrej.livejournal.com]

"Another thing they always carry around in fantasy novels is cheese. Cheese? Maybe its just because I'm not especially fond of the stuff raw (love it melted, though) it always gives me a sour taste in my mouth when I read about it. And doesn't it, like, go bad on these long journeys they're always going on?"

LOL They did eat an awful lot of cheese in The Thief, didn't they? But also jerky -- and chicken -- and all those olives! Yum!

Remember that tavern where they served the hard cheese and dried-out olives? And Sophos and Ambiades were horrified, but Gen ate everything anyway?

As for varied fantasy menus -- C.S. Lewis is great (of course)! And there's Michelle Paver's "Chronicles of Ancient Darkness," set in hunter-gatherer Northern Europe. People eat an amazing variety of genuine hunter-gatherer foods in those books! And if you're interested, there's another excellent fantasy series by Hilari Bell based on Persian mythology. It's called the Farsala trilogy, and the first book is "Fall of a Kingdom." I have to admit, no feasts spring to mind when I think of those books -- but there is a certain amount of smashing of winecups! Also try either of Antonia Michaelis's books --they're both great, and they're set in India and Nepal. Peter Dickenson's amazing short novel, The Tears of the Salamander, is set in late Renaissance (or early modern?) Italy. And for even more realistic food in fantasy, there are always the "urban fantasy" writers. Sarah Rees Brennan's awesome "Demon's Lexicon" starts with a failed attempt at supper! Less urban, but equally modern, is our friend R.J. Anderson! Her "Knife" eats some pretty amazing things -- a diet a lot more like Michelle Paver's characters, and less like mine -- or Gen's.

Speaking of which, I got the most awesome olive salad at the A&P last night. (With feta! I love cheese!!)
PS Hey! How about "Wallace and Gromit" for fantasy? Wensleydale!!)

[deirdrej.livejournal.com]

That does look fascinating, and a couple of the libraries in our system have it!
I'll put it on my list ;-D

[teenareena.livejournal.com]

I love your use of "more chicken". lolz