questioning Attolia's motives, what else is new

[kindigo.livejournal.com]

All right, I have a stupid question, and before you say "there are no stupid questions" it's stupid because I've asked it here before and I forgot the answer and can't find it again. So.

The subtext in the scene in KoA where the court is at dinner and pissing Gen off and tensions are high and Gen's out of wine and Attolia says "Take mine," referencing when she killed her ex with poison from her own goblet, and Gen laughs and says "No fear of that" or something similar.

Can someone re-explain it? Someone here already had a brilliant explanation that made me go "ohhh yeah, duh me" but I can't remember it anymore. Perhaps Attolia is worried that Gen hates kingship so much... and is trying to relieve his tension by making a morbid joke? It seems the Attolians falsely believe she's threatening him but what's really going on? Or...I don't know!

and I apologize for the horrid rambling nature of this post but can you believe, this question woke me from a sound sleep about two hours ago and I can't get back to sleep? If this rant has any coherence at all when I re-read it after dawn I will be impressed with myself for sleep-livejournaling, honestly.

PS. I'm sure some of you smart people already know this but I just learned that the area of Eastern Turkey is also called Anatolia. So I always thought that Attolia/Sounis/Eddis were "Greek city-state" analogues, and the Medes were "Turkish" analogues, BUT I GUESS IT'S THE OTHER WAY ROUND?! What do you think guys? And are the big-power "Continent" countries Persian, or European? DISCUSS. and if all this is old hat to everyone then just ignore the sleep-deprived, please, and let me die of embarrassment in peace

Comments

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Oh, that scene.

Gen: *glares*

Attolian Court: *cowers*

Irene: *nudge, nudge* Hubby, dear. Take mine.

Attolian Court: *falls over*

Gen: *mouth-drops*

*chirping crickets*

Gen: BWHAHAHA!

Oh, wait... You actually wanted something intelligent, didn't you? Alright! *puts "I'm smart" hat on* Note quotations.

This scene is a bit of a Rashomon, because we are seeing it from two different angles. Gen has just threatened an Attolain court member, and what does dude-who-should-not-have-listened-to-Dite do? He looks to his queen for protection. How does Attolia assert authority? Imaginative threats. The court sees Attolia reasserting control by reminding Gen, Hubby dear... Remember what happened to my last husband? Gen just laughs, which makes the court think one: he doesn't get it and is thus an idiot or two: he does get it and is laughing it off and is again thus an idiot.

But... *cue pensive music*

We as the well-informed (yeah, right...) reader know "the rest of the story". Attolia is also ticked at the dude-who-is-going-to-be-putting-something-nasty-in-Dite's-food, so at first allows Gen to death-stare said dude into dust. Gen is (momentarily) letting his act slip. Why? Because he's royally ticked. His act is? Buffoonery. Why is he acting? Well, that's a can of worms I'm not going to open this late, but let us condense it down to the take down of the House of Dite. So, what is Attolia really doing?

Well... A number of things.

(1) She's making a joke, albeit a morbid one, which lightens Gen's mood and reminds him to screw his head on straight. (2) She's covering for him, and is allowing the court to brush this incident under the rug. Thus allowing Gen to keep up his act. (3) She's stopping Gen from murdering her naval secretary in the dinning room with the wine glass.

Hey, that even came out semi-sensible and snarky!

And then, moving on to your geography question. SEA is neither western European nor Greek/Roman. It's Byzantine-esque. Byzantine was the leftover meatloaf of the "unsinkable" Roman empire. A culture that sewed together the best of both classical and Euro-western society. And no... I have not been listening to Hannah Montana.

Map at 550 CE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:LocationByzantineEmpire_550.png)

There was even a Byzantine empress (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irene_of_Athens) who was named Irene, and they called her basileus. No joke. And now you know the rest of the-

Gen: Seriously? How many times are you going to quote Paul Harvey in one post?

Lady Jane: I can do anything I want!

Gen: Okay, now that's just plagiarism.

Lady Jane: Prove it!

Irene: You have no one to blame but yourself.

Gen: Everyone's out to get me. Stealing my lines. I'm the only one who gets to steal.

Irene: *winks*

Lady Jane: *winks back*

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Oh, yeah... And just because I think this is cool. Edessa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_of_Edessa)

[helle-d.livejournal.com]

I always interpreted it as Attolia actually displaying her private sense of humour (which, let's face it, doesn't exactly get much outing) in public. Gen sees the joke for what it is (and can read Irene well enough to get a lot of other nuances as well) but nobody else even imagines that their Queen has a sense of humour, and, as as ninedaysaqueen says, think Gen is doomed for laughing at the Queen and trivialising her.

[zumie-ashlen.livejournal.com]

gratuitous icon post!

I always saw it as Attolia cooling his head so there weren't any nasty incidents, reminding him about playing the part of the fool.

[brandy-painter.livejournal.com]

(1) She's making a joke, albeit a morbid one, which lightens Gen's mood and reminds him to screw his head on straight. (2) She's covering for him, and is allowing the court to brush this incident under the rug. Thus allowing Gen to keep up his act. (3) She's stopping Gen from murdering her naval secretary in the dinning room with the wine glass.

Very sensibly and snarkily put. Sums it all up nicely.

[styromgalleries.livejournal.com]

She's stopping Gen from murdering her naval secretary in the dinning room with the wine glass.
Now I want Clue: Queen's Thief edition.

[freenarnian.livejournal.com]

Wow. Nicely said! You (with the collective help of the Sounis community, of course) should start working on "The Unenlightened Reader's Guide to Gen, Ganching, and Guileless Guards"... or something to that effect! =)

geography

[ejmam.livejournal.com]

Looking only at the last paragraph, the borders of Greece and Turkey weren't always set at today's lines. Lots of present day Turkey spent time speaking Greek, and at times Turkey included all of Greece.

The Medes are more Persian analogues, I think. I think the closest is the H.R.E. and Persia, but it's not exact.

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Clue: QT Edition

Oh, gosh... Styrom. Don't ruin my Christmas with impossible wishes! Clue... That was my favorite board game growing up. I still love it. I was good at it too.

Gen: Costis! Hand me the lead pipe. We're taking down that Nahuserfish.

Costis: All I have is the rope, Your Majesty.

Gen: Perfect! I really can strangle him with one hand. To the kitchen!

Costis: What makes you think he's in the kitchen?

Gen: Because the cooks have made apple pie. Who could resist the smell? Little does he know, it's a trap.

Costis: Your Majesty, maybe this game is going to your head just a little.

Gen: How so?

Costis: ...

The QT characters playing Clue. That could make a good parody. Hmm...

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Thank you!

My caffeine highs do occasionally amount to something.

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Oww... Like Lady Jane's Snarktastic Guide to All Thinks QT. Like I could compile some links and make a sort of QT handbook... Oh, wait! I see where this is going! Filk is already trying to trick me into writing something about Gen as a baklava boy-toy (don't ask). I have finals coming up in a few week, people. Just because I'm from the Valley of Parodies doesn't mean... Oh, wait... It does. Darn.

Now, I have a winter break project.

[beth-shulman.livejournal.com]

ZING. ME TOO. There must be a design-your-own version somewhere.

Re: geography

[stubefied-by-gd.livejournal.com]

I agree, although I don't know why. The Medes for some reason always reminded me of Persians. And for some reason Ferria in my head always belonged in Italy, and the Continental powers were European. Even though this isn't really our world.

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

That would be epic! I want one!

Which character gets to be which color?

[ballerina-222.livejournal.com]

And one of the interesting (well, kind of horrifying, but still interesting in the style of how people think of Attolia) things about that Irene is that she blinded her own son to remain in power. Ouch. I feel like she would have been just as scary as Attolia.

[beth-shulman.livejournal.com]

Attolia's a deep burgundy/wine color to me.
Gen's - a duochrome color. Or maybe parchment, but also earth. (I - don't know, actually. He can be the whole rainbow if he wants.)
Eddis is a warm brown. I will just take a moment to say how much I love her.
Sophos is - bronze?
Pol (poor Pol) is granite.

Thoughts?

[beth-shulman.livejournal.com]

Aaaand - I just realized that these aren't Clue colors, exactly. I'll just stress the design-your-own part ;)

Re: geography

[charlotteslibrary.blogspot.com (from livejournal.com)]

The Medes always remind me of the Calormens in The Horse and His Boy -- the beards etc. And the Calormans always seemed to me Persians...

[styromgalleries.livejournal.com]

Sophos in Elisa with the Twin Revolvers!

[styromgalleries.livejournal.com]

Gen would be yellow of course!

[beth-shulman.livejournal.com]

*grin* I don't remember who had that icon "if you would not order your clothes in colors that would suit a canary" but it is extremely appropriate right now.

Re: geography

[elvenjaneite.livejournal.com]

Well, there is a reason for that--" In the Biblical book of Daniel there are references to the "Law of the Medes and Persians, which alters not." (source (http://worldhistory1a.homestead.com/PERSIA.html))

And I agree--I always thought of Ferria as Florence.

[aged-crone.livejournal.com]

Well, if you think of French's Mustard, the really bright yellow stuff, Gen could then be Colonel Mustard...

[beth-shulman.livejournal.com]

I - am laughing really, really hard right now.

And isn't there something about Attolia and a scarlet peplos, or am I remembering wrong?

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

That's Amolegere's icon.

*pokes Amolegere*

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Oh, dear... I now have an image of Gen fall into a vat of mustard, and tracking it all over the palace.

Gen: Why did you let me fall? Why!!!???

Gods: We thought you liked yellow.

Gen: *facepalm*

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

I just finally got that!

*dies*

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Irene would so be Miss Scarlet - femfatal extraordinare.

Miss Scarlet in the dungeon with the axe!

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Irene of Athens is so Attolia's RL counterpart. They are strikingly similar historically.

[beth-shulman.livejournal.com]

in the dungeon... *sad face*

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

There was a real Mede Empire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medes) that was conquered by the Persians circa 549 BC.

I do think Ferria is suppose to be similar to Italy during the Renaissance. It was the birthplace of much art and music. Dite would've loved it there.

[ballerina-222.livejournal.com]

Very true. Maybe a question for mwt could be if she was inspired for the character by her. Or maybe it's just a coincidence.

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

It's WAYYY too convenient to be a coincidence, and Megan obviously has an expansive knowledge of history. It's doubtful she never would have come across Irene of Athens in her research. Even if Irene of Athens didn't exactly inspire Attolia, I think the RL woman provided the character base.

Attolia also has certain similarities to Elizabeth I - she ordered the amputation of a man's right hand, she had an excellent Spy Master who was formally referred to as the Principle Secretary, and other little things like that.

We could always e-mail her. That's a thought. Though we may just get a you know what.

[ballerina-222.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's what I thought. Names in these books aren't random, or they don't seem to be, so I figured that she would have known about Irene of Athens.
It's interesting that you also note the similarities to Elizabeth I, and I agree with you about that. She was a strong queen who ruled on her own, even though many men thought she should have gotten married. I didn't know about the amputation though.

[kitsune-rains.livejournal.com]

Just saw this while searching for a legit do-your-own clue site:

"The Iranian version of Clue uses Persian names and even updated the pictures after the Islamic revolution to match the required garb. In another difference to the game most of us are used to playing, the goal of the game in Iran is not to solve the murder, but to discover who the thief was."

This.