Mapping Gen's World
Jun. 14th, 2007 06:11 pm![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
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queensthiefThere was a recent discussion in the Conspiracy Room about what Gen’s world would look like. We ended up deciding the god/goddess of maps should really just take pity on us and let us have a map, but before we got to that point, there was some interesting discussion. Among the things that we thought about were: how many coasts the various countries had, who were their neighbors (if any), and how the different countries were set up in relation to each other. Check the backlog in chatzy for complete ideas!
The coasts were under hot contention. Some people thought that the three countries were on an island. Some reasons for believing that they are on an island include that there is a peninsula mentioned (at the end of The King of Attolia, in the steam room and when Gen suggests in QoA to his father that he go study there) which implies that the three countries are not actually on it. Other people thought that they were not on an island because it mentions that Eddis has no reliable seaports until Ephrata, and you'd think that if they were on an island they would. Also in support of the non-island theory is that Gen refers to geography in TT as 'somewhere inland of the Seperchia.’ If Sounis had two coasts, then that description wouldn't work.
The sea battle also came up when we were talking about coasts. Most of us had assumed that the sea battle took place on one side, but that is never actually stated in the books. Someone mentioned that if the sea battle had taken place on both sides, the armies would need to be broken up, which would weaken them. (Sounis already had a surplus population in The Thief while Attolia was still sparsely populated in some areas. Because of this, and because of the large army that we know the King of Sounis keeps, you would think that he would be more willing to split up his army than Attolia would.) Two suggestions as to why Sounis couldn’t attack on one side are (a) Eddis extends further out on the mainland than Sounis or (b) there’s another country that borders Sounis and restricts access to water on that side. Another possibility was that Attolia's and Sounis' capitals are only on one side, so it would be too expensive to send troops around from the other way and much easier to attack only on the one side. If the three countries were part of a larger landmass, you would think that Sounis could sneak his army through there. It was also pointed out that most countries don’t just let you march an army through them, lending support to the theory that Sounis couldn’t attack on one side. Also noted was the fact that in The Thief the magus said that Eddis was the only pass between Sounis and Attolia.
After a long discussion, the general consensus was that Attolia was on a peninsula while Sounis was on the main landmass. (Eddis is obviously between the two, probably where the peninsula connects to the main landmass.) Attolia is always described as ‘costal,’ implying that none of the country is far from the coast. There was also the thought that, given the chance, Attolia would move inland for Gen’s comfort. To support this theory, we thought back to The Thief, when Attolia was green while Sounis was still brown. Because of the Rain Shadow Effect, the ocean that the prevailing winds blow over must be on the Attolian side of Eddis. Well whether there's coast or a land border, there must be some reason why Sounis couldn't sneak an army round the back way!
After all this wondering about the coasts, we thought a bit about the neighboring countries. We know nothing about them. What about the Court of Ten Nations mentioned when Eddis declares war? The thought was that they were similar to Gen’s siblings—much as we’d love to hear about them, there has been no use for them in the books yet. We’ll hear about them when there is a use. It could be that this is mostly from the point of view of Eddis or Attolia and there's not much written about the trade, but why didn't the any of the countries ask for help during Queen of Attolia? We know that Sounis got the new ships (during Queen of Attolia), but thought that it was implied that they were from the Mede.
(Edit from Emerald: my first theory was that because these powers politely disbelieved any threat of war in KoA, that these Continental powers wanted to discourage Mede but were reluctant to go to war. In fact, they preferred to help from the sidelines and make Eddis, Sounis and Attolia fight Mede so they didn't have to. However Eddis said "they are also ready to interfere at the first excuse, but the last thing we need is to have the conflict fought out on our ground" So maybe this is why the countries didn't ask for help. If the Greater Powers of the Continent got involved decisions would be taken out of their (rulers of Eddis, Sounis, Attolia) hands too much and they would end up decimated.)
From the Mede, our thoughts turned to Attolia. Some thought that there must be another side to Attolia because Costis says something about 'What must it be like to move from the mountains where it never gets warm even in the summer to coastal Attolia where the snow rarely comes?' If there was an inland part of Attolia, you would think that Attolia would move there for Gen's comfort. It was then pointed out that Attolia mostly moves her court around in order to look into the affairs of the barons. Others pointed out that moving inland (and perhaps further from Eddis) might make Gen more homesick.
And, of course, when we talked about Gen, we thought about Eddis. Are there *valleys* in those mountains, or what? Do Eddis's mountains go down to the sea? (They do. Eddis mentions if she were desposed that Attolia would take the coastal mountains with the silver mines.) How hard was it to integrate Ephrata into being a part of Eddis? We decided that at least part of Eddis goes down to the sea, and that there were more rocky cliffs than sandy beaches.
As for Mede, we know it is across the Black Straits from Attolia because Nahuseresh is laughing his guts out from across them
Comments on our reasoning? Questions on our sanity? Answers to our questions? Please comment!
no subject
Date: 6/14/07 05:36 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 6/14/07 05:47 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 6/14/07 05:50 pm (UTC)Ferria *grins*
Date: 6/14/07 07:05 pm (UTC)1) Attolia's capital is on the coast because Dite goes down to the port there. "Dite left the walled city of Attolia and made his way through the open streets to the docks where a ship was waiting for him" Tiloo then said: so which means neither of them would split up there army to start a battle on the other side of attolia and Sounis, which I don't quite understand. But I'll go over this
2) "They (Eddisian soliders) are half an hour away in Thegmis Port" says Costis drunk in the first chapter. And "The captain of the ship finally came to put off anyone who didn't intend to sail for the Peninsula. The ship set out towards Thegmis, and the dark came down" So, Thegmis must be on the way to the Peninsula because the captain wouldn't take a huge detour if he had taken the trouble to put people off going different ways
3) Thus, Ferria is probably on the Peninsula. Pg257 of KoA describes Ferria as a centre of culture and Rowana and I both noticed it sounded like Ferrara, hinting at Renaissance stuff. Gen, in QoA, suggests to his father that he go study on the Peninsula. This would make sense if the Peninsula was all or partly Ferria because it corresponds with Ferria being a centre of learning etc. in that part of the world
4) That Gen already knew about Ferria from his QoA days makes sense. Dite's fate was obviously well planned out. But we knew that anyway.
Re: Ferria *grins*
Date: 6/14/07 07:28 pm (UTC)"Sounis bypassed any attempt to retake the islands he had lost to Attolia and instead moved in a surprise attake on Thegmis, almost in the harbour of Attolia's capital city...Sounis controlled the island"
So, is Thegmis an island off Attolia when Attolia is a continent or is Attolia's mainland an island itself? I sort of think the former. Not sure. Thoughts?
Re: Ferria *grins*
Date: 6/14/07 07:59 pm (UTC)Okay, sorted. I will shut up
Re: Ferria *grins*
Date: 6/14/07 08:02 pm (UTC)"The city and the megaron had originally been crowded on to the tiny plateau, but in the peaceful reign of the invaders had moved down the hill to the slope above the harbour. The harbour was protected by a headland and a breakwater and by the shadowy bulk of Thegmis offshore stretching up and down the coast"
"So now we know everything"
no subject
Date: 6/14/07 08:11 pm (UTC)Where is the middle sea?
no subject
Date: 6/14/07 11:11 pm (UTC)Even though Megan has said that it's not set in real Greece, there was a real Medean Empire, and so I think it's reasonable to assume that some of the other countries and land features have bases in real geography as well.
no subject
Date: 6/14/07 09:25 pm (UTC)I don't know about my own intuition as far as whether they are on an island or a continental peninsula goes, but in my head, Sounis was always on the left, Eddis in the middle, and Attolia on the right. XD
Do we know which nation was furthest west/east at all? Is there any mention of cardinal directions. I know that the images we form when we read aren't always similar at *all* to the facts presented in the books if we don't read carefully/notice the little details.
I do feel that the nations are all linked to a larger landmass to the North, but this is probably because the story is set in a Mediterranean-ish landscape, and I imagine them set up much the same way Greece and Rome are. Maybe imagine Sounis as Rome, Attolia as Greece, and Eddis the connecting strip of land at the top that all land travel would have to go through? Maybe Megan made her own unique map, but perhaps it is more similar to our own Earth than we originally thought? ^_^
Just a possibility. It would be interesting to try and map the countries we know onto a real map of the Earth and see where everyone would put things.
no subject
Date: 6/15/07 02:46 am (UTC)Okay, I had to go look up the quote for that one, and here it is.
As we descended, we could see Attolia stretched out ahead of us, and to the right the sea. (At this point we've already learned that they're traveling south; haven't found that quote yet.) Dotted across the horizon, islands continued the mountain range behind us. On the far side of the Attolian valley was another mountain range, and out of that came the Seperchia River. It wandered along the plain, sometimes nearer to the Hephestial Mountains, sometimes many miles away. Just before it reached the coast, it bumped against a rocky spur of the foothills and was diverted into the Hephestial range itself. There the mountains were soft limestone, and the river had cut a pass down to Sounis to flow past the king's city and finally into the middle sea.
That's pp. 93-94 of the most recent paperback edition of Thief.
Etc. In the same chapter it says that Attolia gets the "easterly winds that dump their rain when they hit the mountains," resulting in Attolia's greenness.
Ah, okay. I've found the quote about directions: p. 66 of the aforementioned Thief paperback. Sophos is reciting what he knows of Eddis to the magus.
The country [Eddis] was narrow and ran along the top of the mountain ranges to the south and southeast of Sounis.
Also, somewhere in KoA, it mentions (while Attolia is chastising Gen for taunting Teleus after he (the king) has decided to transfer Costis) that Magyar is across Attolia's northeast border. And Kathodicia, where Phresine learned the story she told Gen, is "far to the north". Whatever that means.
. . . Basically I always imagined Sounis, Eddis, and Attolia as lying on a sort of lumpy peninsula sort of like Greece does in our world, and from the same continent and extending into the same "middle sea" there was another, more prominent peninsula like the Italian peninsula during Renaissance times, where we could find Ferria and other cultured city-state-type-places. Where, apparently, Eugenides is going to sell Teleus and the other Guard members as gladiators if they ever give him another morning like the one at the end of KoA. :)
no subject
Date: 6/15/07 03:43 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 6/15/07 12:47 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 6/15/07 02:50 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 6/15/07 12:46 pm (UTC)Gah, I forgot that bit *headdesks*