Coleus

[ballet2nite.livejournal.com]

 

     I was rereading The Thief, and I came to the end of the battle at the side of the river and there is the Attolian Guard members dead and the Gift lost. I don't the book in my possession right now sorry I'm not sure what page it's on. And Gen says he saw a dead man soaked with water and blood I think is everywhere but one spot shaped like a coleus leaf. I saw on the Eugenides wiki, that the Eddisans call it the "Coward leaf". I the wondered what that little omen thing really meant. I thought it was a sign from the Eddisan gods, but then I remembered the man was Attolian. That made me think that the Eddisan gods were still watching over Attolia as you can see throughout the books.
     Then I thought fowards to the QoA, where Attolia remembers how she killed her first husband by poisoning him with the coleus leaves she had collected. I thought , "The coleus isn't poisonous, is it?". I have a Kong Coleus growing in the front yard. Granted, I never tried to eat it. Maybe that's why the deer never ate it, or maybe it was too close to the house. So I looked online, found the Poison Control Center's website, went under plants and learned that the coleus is indeed not poisonous. So how did Attolia's first bridegroom die? I thought maybe since the books are fantasy, there is a coleus plant that is poisonous. So please help, I'm confused.
This is not mine. I must say that they do better in the ground and in the shade. Little known fact, when there they bloom!
 

Comments

[bluestalking.livejournal.com]

Well, poking around some more:

The ASPCA lists common Coleus leaves as poisonous to cats, dogs and horses, so that might well explain the lack of animal interest in yours. Otherwise, the poisonousness of coleus seems to be under a lot of question. The root has apparently been used medicinally by several cultures for a very long time. Parts of the internet recommend it as a treatment for psoriasis.

One species also been used as a stand-in for Salvia divinorum, or "Diviner's Sage," as a ritualistic, religious drug. Its effects can be similar to that of psilocybin, essentially a low-level hallucinogen. Another species has been used as a nutrition-boosting food (!) in Africa.

It can apparently cause vasodilation, or the widening of blood vessels. If the then-king had low blood pressure already, this could potentially have killed him, I suppose?

Overall, though, it doesn't look like this plant is poisonous to people.

[savetheworld42.livejournal.com]

It seems as if the coleus leaf is fatal to anyone, not just low blood pressure patients. Sky said to Gen that the leaf would not kill him only because it was drunk with the water of life.

[bluestalking.livejournal.com]

Hmm. Well, I guess it must be a particularly potent fiction!coleus then. :)

[rosaleeluann.livejournal.com]

I never actually looked up coleus. Its a real plant, but it isn't actually poisonous? Hmmm....

I find the repeated mention of coleus leaf in the books interesting. In addition to the times you mentioned above, it is also what is put in the God Eugenides drink of the water of life, which couldn't harm him but would make the drink bitter, as his life would be bitter. (Quoting from memory here, too lazy to stand up and grab my book off the shelf. *yawn*)

My thought on it being called the "coward's leaf" is because it is a poison--you can sneak it into someones food and drink, and kill them as a coward would, rather than facing them.

[savetheworld42.livejournal.com]

Your "coward leaf" theory is like mine, but I was thinking that it might be a way people committed suicide in order to run away from troubles, and therefore a coward's way out.

[faebee-fic.livejournal.com]

Theories:

1) We are dealing with a fictional landscape with real elements. It's possible that in this world, there is a breed of Coleus that is a lot more poisonous than what actually exists.

2) The stories (though fictional, duh) are supposed to have taken place in ancient times, comparable to our own Byzantine Era. In the span of time between say, Emperor Justinian and the very present, there may have been a breed of Coleus that was highly poisonous that has since died out.

3) Maybe Ms. Turner, for whatever reason, was using Coleus as a replacement for Hemlock. Hemlock is extremely poisonous and is said to have bitter taste. Hemlock is also linked to Greek history because Socrates was executed by being made to drink some kind of Hemlock drink.

4) I like pie!

[tencups-i-swear.livejournal.com]

Is your liking pie only a theory? My liking pie is a scientific fact. :D

[thelasteddis.livejournal.com]

<3 <3 <3

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

He... hee...

Everyone on this comm is silly, aren't they?

*is not one to talk*

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

There must be a fictional version of the plant--the deadly Attolian Coleus.

As far as the scene in Thief where Gen sprinkles water on the Attolian, who died bravely and shouldn't have the coward's mark, I thought that was in there because it gave us a clue about Gen. One which Pol, who was watching, might have picked up on, too. We could see that Gen believes in the underworld and so probably in a deity, too. And that he's kind enough, even to someone who was just now trying to kill him, to regret the death and wish the soldier's spirit a safe journey. No clue whether Pol understood, or just wondered what Gen was up to. And we don't know if only Eddisians believe all this, or Sounisians, which Gen isn't really, do too.

[crowinator.livejournal.com]

I always wondered, in this scene, why the soldier was already marked with the coleus leaf. Is it possible that in Attolia the coleus leaf doesn't have the same implication of cowardice, but in Eddis it does? That could be a clue to Pol as well, that Gen isn't Attolian. I had an idea that the leaf was a part of the Attolian and/or lieutenant's uniform when I first read the book, but now when I reread the scene, I don't know why I thought that.

[crowinator.livejournal.com]

Duh, that Gen isn't Souisian, I mean. I meant that maybe the coleus leaf doesn't have the implication of cowardice in either country, aside from Eddis; that it's just an Eddisian thing, since their gods seem to be different.

[(Anonymous)]

I always thought it was just a coincidence. That Gen sprinkled the water because the dry patch *looked* like the coward leaf. That it was ust a demonstration of Gen's Eddisian habits.

The best thing though is that these books are open to interpretation which makes them so wonderful :)

~crazyviolin

[bluestalking.livejournal.com]

I always thought this too. :)

[avian-xj.livejournal.com]

I was taught that coleus ROOTS were poisonous, but I think I'll be safe and not find out if the leaves are different firsthand.

[thelasteddis.livejournal.com]

(Oooooh, I wrote that article!!! As always, I can't be the only one - we always need more article-writers!!)

Gotta say, don't know a thing about plants. I think I have a red thumb. :-P

But as to the other part of the quesion, I always assumed that the Coleus leaf was an Eddisian symbol. Not exactly something to do with the gods, but a superstition. I think that the leaf appeared on the lieutenant's jacket by chance, and Gen's getting rid of it just gave Pol another reason to be suspicious. I always love the bits where Pol is trying to figure out what Gen's mystery is... Pol is... was amazing. :_(

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

"Pol is... was... amazing."

*was saddened by this*

That's why you got so mad at Soji, right? For "that" incident. The one that we do not speak of.

*is thinking of a word that ends in "phile"*

[thelasteddis.livejournal.com]

Yes. And that is why, although I think the fandom always needs people as crazy as she is, I will not let her near QoA or KoA. Imagine what else that sick mind could dream up...

[kittylevin.livejournal.com]

I'M HERE. HOLY CRIZZAPS.

*EVIL LAUGHTER*

[thelasteddis.livejournal.com]

Yeah, you're here, but luckily for my sanity you can't do much more than cackle evilly. You around? I'm bored. :-P

[kittylevin.livejournal.com]

Around? Well, I'm going to crossroads for dinner tonight.

Waaaiiit . . . we shouldn't be discussign personal plans on a public forum . . . should we?

DID YOU SEE MY LATEST HISTORY HAVEN POST!?!? READ PLZ!!!!

[thelasteddis.livejournal.com]

Just read it! replying as we speak. I wanted to know if you wanted to come over for a little while - but my grandparents are going to be coming over soon, so we wouldn't have enough time, anyway. :-( Maybe another time.

[kittylevin.livejournal.com]

yup, another time.

POLAND.

[bluestalking.livejournal.com]

LUCKILY, COLEUS IS LARGELY RED. XDDDD

[sclerotia.livejournal.com]

Only one of the databases I trust lists Coleus as poisonous and it says it causes contact dermatitis (rash) in sensitive people.

I always thought MWT used Coleus because it has a distinctive leaf and because it was NOT really poisonous...so she didn't have to be concerned about someone reading the books and then trying to poison their wicked stepmother with Coleus.