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queensthief Hi reprobates! I know I've been MIA for a while, but I'm just finishing up my second read of CoK, and something popped out at me. I'm no linguist, but a certain similarity in Archaic wording struck me as rather significant.
The gun Sophos recieves from Attolia is inscribed with the words "Onea realia"-- the Queen made me. The gun from Eugenides reads "Realisa onum"-- I make the King. The "on" root of both of these words seems to mean "make" or (to expand on that) "create" in some way, right?
Interesting then, that the place where Sophos makes his final stand against the Medes and asserts himself as Sounis is called "Oneia." This is total conjecture, of course, but I wonder if that wouldn't mean "place of making" or something similar; anyway, the root does seem to suggest that it is not insignificant that Oneia is the name of the place where Sophos is made king in practice as well as principle.
What say you all?
The gun Sophos recieves from Attolia is inscribed with the words "Onea realia"-- the Queen made me. The gun from Eugenides reads "Realisa onum"-- I make the King. The "on" root of both of these words seems to mean "make" or (to expand on that) "create" in some way, right?
Interesting then, that the place where Sophos makes his final stand against the Medes and asserts himself as Sounis is called "Oneia." This is total conjecture, of course, but I wonder if that wouldn't mean "place of making" or something similar; anyway, the root does seem to suggest that it is not insignificant that Oneia is the name of the place where Sophos is made king in practice as well as principle.
What say you all?
no subject
Date: 5/9/10 06:04 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 5/9/10 06:04 am (UTC)THIS IS VERY VERY SMART
This is totally awesome - I think I need to start writing down all the archaic phrases we have and catalog linguistics. We could probably get a long way like that.
no subject
Date: 5/9/10 09:44 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 5/9/10 12:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 5/9/10 03:04 pm (UTC)The only other time I can remember the root being used is "onus" in the invocation to Hephestia. Have we ever gotten a literal translation of the phrase?
no subject
Date: 5/9/10 04:26 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 5/10/10 02:26 am (UTC)ideas lacking in worth
Date: 5/11/10 01:27 am (UTC)"We invoke the great goddess in our hour of need for her wisdom and her love*"
If it follows in the same general order, and "onus" means something along the lines of "make" or "king/queen," the only way it seems to fit in to me is with "need" ... that's sort of almost maybe close to "make"???
If it's refering to someone royal, then maybe the "onus" is the "for her..." part. She's not royal, exactly, but she is a goddess. Maybe it signifies respect?
Anyways, nice thoughts.
*"a rather ruthless love. The Great Goddess of Eddis is not know for her mercy." I LOVE THAT LINE!!!!!
Re: ideas lacking in worth
Date: 5/11/10 01:00 pm (UTC)*(that's cuz Philia takes care of the mercy thing!)
Donkey!
Date: 5/12/10 12:53 am (UTC)...merci for the mercy.
no subject
Date: 5/9/10 03:24 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 5/11/10 01:33 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 5/9/10 04:40 pm (UTC)I also associated the "real-" root with "making".
There are a lot of words we know for "ruler" in Gen's world, aren't there? Basilos. Annux. I sort of mentally associate "onum / onea" (the declension is more reminiscent of Latin than Greek, by the way) with "archon" (= magistrate), but that can't possibly be right.
"on-" as a Greek root... all that comes to mind are "oinos" (= wine); "oneiros" (=dreams); "oun-" (= prefix meaning basically "accompanying, completing, fulfilling"); and "ontos" (= "being", in the philosophical sense. Doesn't help much that there are two Greek vowels that would look like "o" in the Latin alphabet.
Nope. Not getting anything here. This looks like MWT making up something new.
no subject
Date: 5/10/10 07:45 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 5/11/10 01:30 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 5/9/10 05:35 pm (UTC)I also connected Oneia with Onea/Onum, and I've been meaning to work through those two phrases to see how they would parse out.
As someone mentioned, on- might have a root in Gk on- "be-"; while "real-" might connect to the "re-" of Latin-derived "reg-" (ruler).
Onea realia "The Queen made me."
Realisa onum "I make the King."
There are a lot of things that we can't know about archaic, if we assume that it is a real language (in-universe, at least): I assume that the subject is encoded into the verb (as in ancient Greek and Latin). I'm also assuming that Archaic a subject-accusative language (instead of, e.g. an ergative-absolutive language); I'm assuming that the object of the verb is not explicitly encoded...I'm assuming (and there is no really good reason to assume this) that Archaic is pretty structurally similar to Greek and/or Latin.
We don't know what the word-order of archaic was.
If it is like English (SVO), then the on- root means "ruler." Certain things would work well: a feminine subject ending of -a and a masculine object ending of -um look very much like Latin.
This means that reali- is a root for "make" (cf. "real", "realize with root in Latin "re-" "thing") , where -a encodes "3rd singular [past/aorist/perfect?] active indicative" and -sa encodes "1st singular [present/future?] active indicative." -s- happens to be a common future indicator in ancient Greek.
But what if Archaic has word order closer to Latin and Greek: SOV?
Then:
Realisa onum "The king, I make (him)."
Onea realia "Made (me), the queen."
Now reali- is the root for "ruler": and -a is a feminine nominative ending, and -sa is a masculine accusative ending. This also is familiar in terms of Greek morphology (-a as a third declension accusative singluar ending).
On- is the root for "to make", with -um encoding "1st singluar [present/future] active indicative and -ea encoding "3rd singular [past/perfect/aorist] active indicative. -m(/-n) is certainly a known 1st person singular ending in Latin (-n in Greek).
-ea looks like an archaic Greek ending (that will contract into -e: in Attic and make my life miserable when I come across it...). -a only shows up in Greek as a 3rd person singular ending in contract verbs, but, obviously, Archaic IS NOT Greek, so there's no reason it couldn't be a standard ending there. Maybe the -e- is an eta and there's a sort of root aorist-y thing going on (with an ending attached?). Or maybe One is the verb, and -a is tacked on meaning "this thing/me-object"...
no subject
Date: 5/10/10 07:47 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 5/9/10 07:27 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 5/9/10 09:28 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 5/10/10 12:22 am (UTC)Clearly, Sounisians are brilliant.
Clearly, MWT is even more brilliant.
And thus ends my ability to comment in a way even marginally useful, except to say that I tend to assume that everything MWT does is on purpose, including names, so I'm sure you've got something here. Very nice catch!
no subject
Date: 5/10/10 01:00 am (UTC)I'd just assumed onea/onum were queen/king and realia/realisa were made/make, respectively. Major props to ricardienne for doing a full-frontal linguistic analysis on the roots and inflections and everything :) It's basically everything I was thinking in my head, but, um... better.
no subject
Date: 5/10/10 08:12 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 5/11/10 01:41 am (UTC)Names, names. Dangit, I love all these names!
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Date: 6/24/11 05:40 pm (UTC)Интересно! Ждущие ребенка в мегаполисе!
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