Hi all!

[beth-shulman.livejournal.com]

I'm new here, just found out that there's an active community dedicated to the Queen's Thief. This is a godsend,  because for some reason, none of my friends appreciate the genius that is Megan Whalen Turner (oh, it's too political). So I need somewhere intelligent to discuss A Conspiracy of Kings.

So. First of all, The King of Attolia is one of my favorite books of all time. So coming into ACoK, I was expecting to be bowled over even more than I was. Even though it was from Sophos's point of view and Gen is possibly the best, most unique character ever created. So I *ran* to a bookstore the day ACoK was released and bought a copy.

I do not in any way regret buying that copy. But I was a little disappointed in the book. And even more disappointed that I was disappointed. One of the things that I love about MWT is that she'll throw in little details in random places where they fit, and then later, those details take on such significance in the plot. It happened so many times in KoA. I think I did my fist-pump once in ACoK (the amphitheater scene was brilliant). But I was expecting to be wowed more times and I wasn't. Also, Sophos just isn't as endearing to me as Gen, and Gen is so rarely in the book.

And it seemed that ACoK got rave reviews from the book reviewers, while KoA was not as praised. I don't know; to me, ACoK was more standard writing, while KoA was more innovative.

I felt like the entire book was a setup for the next two. Like, since Gen is now that Annux, the real battle can begin to unfold. So the entire ACoK was more of a bridge, rather than important in and of itself. I still think that ACoK is way better than most of what's being published, but I had insanely high expectations and it just didn't meet them.

Am I missing something vital here? Did anyone feel the same way? 

Comments

[sojourn-storm.livejournal.com]

I have to say I felt the same way reading this book.

Actually for KoA I felt dissapointed at the change of POV and it was just so weird that I was really disappointed, but then I re-read it and re-read it and it's my favorite even better than QoA.

So for me I imagine once I re-read CoK it will get better, like fine wine. It was another change of POV and it threw me because I didn't read any snippets or ARC's before the book came out to be unspoiled. I certainly hope I grow to love it like I do the previous books and with how Megan writes I don't think it will disappoint the 2nd time around.

[beth-shulman.livejournal.com]

I actually read KoA first. I was in the library and I saw a book and it had a great cover and it sounded interesting. So I took it home and read it; I didn't know about the books before it, so I didn't know there was a change in the POV. KoA was pretty much a perfect reading experience and you're right, it does keep getting better. I really, really hope that happens with ACoK.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

I felt the same way too. The plot was very straightforward despite the switching from first- to third-person, there wasn't much hidden from us yet sign-posted with cunning clues that were understood in retrospect, and the resolution was, to me, totally lacking in finesse. I don't think it was because Sophos was the main character--Costis was a straight-forward guard through whose eyes we still saw a wonderfully complex story--but because the twistiness just wasn't there.

[beth-shulman.livejournal.com]

I'm glad I'm not alone. I kept wondering if maybe I was missing something extraordinarily clever, but in the end I just felt set up.

[coyul.livejournal.com]

I was expecting more twists, but really, Sophos doesn't know how to withhold anything the way that Gen can (and he's not like just meeting Gen like Costis was so it's not like we're being slowly enlightened), so I wasn't surprised in the end or even disappointed. Sophos is too straightforward and honest.

But you have to be careful with the honest ones because you never know when they'll do something incredibly stupid, as Captain Jack Sparrow said. Which makes me see Sophos as Will and Gen as Jack because it fits a little bit and plus Gen's got a pirate hook so why not.

Lol done rambling about nothing.

[beth-shulman.livejournal.com]

No, your rambling makes a lot of sense. :-) I know that Sophos and Gen are different, I'm just assuming that a huge part of the appeal of the series for me was Gen and his twistiness.

[freenarnian.livejournal.com]

I can see this. Gen in book 5: "So! Sophos. You and I are gonna stroll down to the Mede encampment and commandeer an elephant, savvy?"

[zumie-ashlen.livejournal.com]

I think the reason it was less complex was because Gen was not in it as much. Most of the twistiness tends to come from him. :D

Also, I think the reason it got more rave reviews than KoA was simply because more people know about the series than when KoA came out. KoA brought in the fans. (also that one is TOTES MY FAVORITE ORZ)

And finally, it's hard to live up to anticipation. I too was a little disappointed, because I love Gen and Attolia so much and I wanted more of them! But I think this was mostly setting the stage for the next book, which will hopefully be more Gen-centered. Or Costis-centered, because I love him too.

I wonder if I read it again, will more plot details and points will come to light. Has anyone done any intense re-reading?

[beth-shulman.livejournal.com]

I know, it's *totally* my favorite, too. I tried so hard to reread ACoK, but I just end up going back to KoA. Oh well. Only three more years til the next one.

Re: Hey :).

[beth-shulman.livejournal.com]

I know, I totally lived for the Gen parts... Did you see that interview with MWT on some blog where she talks about Gen planning to steal an elephant in some future book? I am dying to read that already.

And do you really think it will be four to six years? I can't wait that long...

And it's so funny that you like Attolia because I think I'm kinda scared of her. Um. Whatever that says about me. I mean, she's awesome. But terrifying. And she's also not in the book enough.

I'm just making this stuff up as I type...

[rosaleeluann.livejournal.com]

Each of the books in the series is different. Thats part of what makes this series so much better than others which are just the same thing, again and again. But that means, if you want another KoA, you aren't quite going to get it. Which is disappointing at first, but you can keep loving KoA and love ACoK for what it is--a different book.

Also, at this point, I think we're getting really good at paying attention to seemingly-unimportant detail, and anticipating the surprises. Thinking about Sophos as a character, I think its just as surprising that he would pull a gun and shoot a man when the vote doesn't go his way, as, say, the revelation that Gen was in love with the woman who cut his hand off. But this surprise was more expected, and therefore less surprising.

Re: I'm just making this stuff up as I type...

[beth-shulman.livejournal.com]

But this surprise was more expected, and therefore less surprising.

Yep. But still amazing. That scene was my favorite in the book, probably because Sophos was most like Gen there.

[elvenjaneite.livejournal.com]

I know if I had to pick a favorite, KoA would be it, definitely! And when I first finished CofK I was a tad disappointed. However, I went back and re-read it almost immediately, and on the re-read I fell in love. Not as much as with KoA, or even maybe QoA (for the last chapter which makes me squee), but definitely in love. So, if you're someone who does re-reads, I'd really suggest doing that.

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

Another source of disappointment that's been discussed on Sounis is the fact that the previous books have all been about Gen finding the twisty way to end a war, or finding the twisty way to show mercy and not kill people -- and here, Sophos has to do the obvious thing and kill people. That doesn't make it a bad book, and many people here have been eloquent about how appropriate it is, and how the killing Sophos does probably prevents more killing, etc. -- but it does give it a built-in let-down factor, as Sophos does NOT find another way to solve his dilemma. I'm kind of still trying to decide what I think about that myself. I have a lot of respect for this book but will probably never love it as much as KoA.

[beth-shulman.livejournal.com]

You know, when Sophos realized that there was no other way, and that by leaving him the pistol, that's what Gen was telling him, in a way that was a validation for him. That he really thought it out correctly, that even Gen saw no other way. Maybe that's what gave him the strength to do it.

[finding-further.livejournal.com]

There is a subtlety to ACoK that, I think, accounts for all of the rave reviews. Sophos, though much more direct than Gen, is still an equally unreliable narrator. He constantly misinterprets things, gets people's opinions of himself wrong, misses the hints being offered by those around him, etc. Like the previous three books, we still have to read between the lines to get ACoK's full meaning. As a writer, that is an amazingly difficult feat to pull off.

That said, I too missed Gen.

But I can understand how MWt may have needed to take a break from him at this point in the series. As compelling a character as he has become, there are other stories to be told in this universe. Stories that add to the greater story arc in progress.

Now, if only we didn't have to wait to see what's coming next!!

[beth-shulman.livejournal.com]

One thing I didn't like is how unreliable Sophos is. Especially in that scene where he opens the bottom of the box and sees what Gen sent and then didn't tell the reader - even though he's the reader's eyes, and it's an omniscient point of view, so if he's seeing something, shouldn't I also be seeing it?

It felt like it was being deliberately misleading for the sake of future impact, which is not something I ever expected from MWT. Do you have any idea why she did that? I think she's such a genius that I expect all the things she does, which I might not like, to have a significance that I missed. That is such an unfair and huge burden to place on anyone :-).

[elle-winters.livejournal.com]

Welcome to the comm beth! I think once the next one comes out people will be much more happy they *know* what happened with Eddis and Sophos and everything wasn't just *poof*

I have a good feeling we're all going to want to do reread once the lastest book comes out. Until, then we have our theories.

=]

[beth-shulman.livejournal.com]

Thank you!
I agree, that's what I'm counting on - that when the next book comes out, all will be clear with where she was going with this one.

[styromgalleries.livejournal.com]

But I was a little disappointed in the book. And even more disappointed that I was disappointed.
Same. I hopeI'm sure I will like it more upon a reread, but I just can't bring myself to reread it yet. After KoA, I instantly reread it and loved it again. With this one...I just can't. :(

[beth-shulman.livejournal.com]

I know how you feel :-( I'm counting on a reread to reveal so many new things, and I'm so afraid it won't.

[rosaleeluann.livejournal.com]

There is alot of defense of ACoK going on, but will nobody claim it as a favorite? I know one of my best friends (who can't get on a computer to speak for herself or I'd make her do it) told me that she liked ACoK best of the series--I think what it came down to is that she really loved and identified with Sophos as a character, and his development in the book. She loves the twistiness of the series as a whole (of course she does, she likes good books :-) but I believe she liked Sophos's, um, genuine-ness.

[styromgalleries.livejournal.com]

I think Sophos is one of the reasons that I didn't like this one as much. Though he was often hilarious, I just still don't care for him that much. I mean, I do and I don't. I like him, but I just cannot make the leap to *loving* him.

[tiegirl.livejournal.com]

Welcome!

[beth-shulman.livejournal.com]

Thank you!

[drashizu.livejournal.com]

I think a lot of people here have found that the book was underwhelming the first time around after the skyhigh expectations raised by KoA, but, at least for me, the experience did improve on rereading. It wasn't so much that there were new "hints" to notice like in previous books, because there's not much to hint at early on. But I appreciated the beautiful craftsmanship of what was there, and I definitely rediscovered some great lines and scenes and gradually made more and more connections to the events, emotions, and issues of the earlier books. Especially in the middle section where Gen's on stage.

For instance, in QoA, Attolia says to Gen, "I'm sure I wouldn't be the first you drove to apoplexy!" In ACoK, when Sophos meets the Attolian monarchs in their throne room for the first time, he uses the word "apoplexy" again. The implied connection---that Gen's snarky line has driven him to apoplexy---is very cool.

Trust me, there is more to notice on a reread.

[beth-shulman.livejournal.com]

I need to reread as soon as possible... Preferably all of them in one sitting, if I can. I didn't notice that line, that's awesome.

[sgwordy.livejournal.com]

Hello Beth! Thanks for getting such a great discussion going!

[beth-shulman.livejournal.com]

Thanks! This comm is awesome.

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

Wow, way to start a discussion! Welcome.

[beth-shulman.livejournal.com]

Thank you! OT question: How's Shiver? Is it as good as/better than her other books?

[elle-winters.livejournal.com]

So I think that CoK's opened the series up to a new audience, I read this review by a girl named "Liz" for a CoK...check out what she had to say...

I am seriously in mourning. I can't believe the book is over. I wanted to make it last longer, but I couldn't put it down. It was by far the best book I have read since The King of Attolia came out. These books are perfect. I have loved Sophos since the first book and I have been looking forward to hearing his story, but this was better than I could have hoped for. I loved watching Sophos as he realized he could be king and gain the confidence and experience he needed to be the king his people needed. As always with these books, the love stories are not amazing because of the amount of pages they take up but because of the quality and depth with which they are written. And again every glimpse of Gen we get I just fall in love all over with his character and leave in awe of this author that has produced such a perfect leading man for this series that is unlike any that I have ever seen. With each addition to this series I keep hoping that I am not disappointed and I never am!

interesting...

[rosaleeluann.livejournal.com]

Do you have a link for that? (Better yet, give HER a link to here ;-)

[lizzyazula.livejournal.com]

I'm going to have to agree with what some other people have said, and say that the reason why most people's expectations have fallen short is because the lack of Eugenides. We've all had three books and many years to fall desperately in love with him, and then comes a book we've waited for so long and there's a severe lack of Gen. The people who claim the book as their favorite are (and I'm basing this off of what I've read on the internet and from my own friends) people who love Sophos as much or more than Eugenides.

That said, I think Megan was very aware that this reaction would happen from the majority of her fans. I mean, you have to applaud her for going on with this book even though she knew all Gen-fans would be somewhat disappointed. Personally, I loved CoK. Yes, KoA is my favorite, but I never once thought of CoK falling short of expectations.

[teenareena.livejournal.com]

I agreed with you on the expectation bit. Someone I know refuse to read any news on the book beforehand coz she's so afraid of spoiler and ended up disappointed because she's expecting a Gen and Attolia book. While I, who had known in advance this is Sophos' show, enjoyed it very much.

One of thing I like about ACoK is how Sophos and his relationship with Eddis are so different from Gen. It'd totally kill the serie for me if gentle Sophos from book one just grew up to be Gen-like shrewd and skillful because it'd be just a remake.

I understand lots of readers' concern about how violence became the solution in this book, instead of cunningness (Is that a word?)and such. But if the serie is to continue on being a realistic political intrigue, sooner or later it has to come to this. Like what MWT said with the 2nd book, the next logical step for a thief is for him to be caught and lived with the consequence. Thus, the next logical step for a king is to face the not-so-happy side of sovereignty, when one cannot shy away from responsibility even though it is against one's wish and live with the consequence.

[agh-4.livejournal.com]

Hi!

I'm here to very, very belatedly say welcome and ogle at all the amazing discussion. :)

[beth-shulman.livejournal.com]

Hi! Thank you.