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Inspired by the last link post, here's another interesting review of A Conspiracy of Kings, http://heidenkind.blogspot.com/2010/04/conspiracy-of-kings-by-megan-whalen.html, in which Eugenides takes over the world and the fourth book is apparently a giant cliffhanger. I totally missed the cliff during my reading, though. I mean, it felt like an in-between book, but I didn't feel dissatisfied with the ending, unlike the reviewer. While I agreed with the discussion of Sophos's character change, I was a bit confused by that part. What do you guys think, is ACoK incomplete?

(And is Gen taking over the world? *dun dun DUNNN*)

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I don't think he's trying to take over the world, just the three kingdoms as over-king (can't remember the term right now). If there's a cliff-hanger, it's Gen's health, which was pointed up a few times (unless that's play-acting on Gen's part which is not at all unlikely) and the impending war with the Medes.

I agreed about the political stuff. I enjoyed Sophos's journey to finding his strength and self much more.

Oh gosh, I forgot about his health. That certainly is a loose thread. Although you're right, it might not be quite a cliffhanger since whatever's wrong with him, it isn't imminently life-threatening. We think.

Thanks!

Well, I think that it's entirely possible that Gen's taking over the world, even though he doesn't want to. He has all of us to help him!!!

That WAS very interesting. QoA is also one of my favorite books evar. And I like how ?she? was surprised when shy Sophos would suddenly "whip" something out. Like a gun? Or two? :)

I don't think ACoK is incomplete, and that it's basically fulfilled mwt's wish that all her books be stand alone. Even if it seems incomplete, it is, as you said, an in-between book. I personally loved the ending.

As to shy Sophos whipping it out, hasn't she heard the warning, "Watch out for the quiet ones"?

Perhaps Gen IS taking over the world. He's got his preferred leaders all set up in Eddis, Attolia, and Sounis... maybe Emperor of the Medes is part of Costis' new job description? =P

Oh my. Poor Costis!

I totally missed the cliff too. I thought the book was complete and wrapped up its plot well. Sure, there is other stuff going on that is not explained completely (like Gen's health issues). But I certainly don't feel like I have been left hanging.

And I actually loved all of the political yammering.

I like political stuff. (In books, that is. I don't really like dealing with it in real life, though.)
So, yeah. I'm in the another in the 'loved the political yammering' boat.

Frankly, I think it's very ironic that she hates all the "political yammering" when QoA is her favorite book. And the romance, borderline nonsensical?!?! GGRRR!!! This is how I think in life: Don't like Harry Potter? Go read Twilight and then see how you feel. Think Avatar: The last Airbender is stupid? Go drink some cactus juice. This the romance in ACoK is "borderline nonsensical" and that anything by Megan is imperfect in any way? Go jump off a cliff! Ok, that's over-reacting. But unfortunately, I get angry over stupid things...I suppose if you have your reasons for disliking something, you have a right to dislike it. But Eddis/Sophos was, IS perfect!

Over-reacting maybe, but funny.

I was a little confused by the "borderline nonsensical" comment. Okay if that is her opinion but some explanation would have been helpful. What about it did she find nonsensical? I agree the way Eddis/Sophos turned out was perfect. I thought the resolution fit their characters perfectly.

I think "borderline nonsensical" might have been referring to the part at the end when Eddis suddenly up and acts all mad at Sophos and he strikes out once, twice, three times in trying to figure out what he said to make her angry. It takes a big leap of inferential power on the reader's part to figure out that the whole chapter in the library about the gods is her, explaining in an indirect way, why she's mad.

I'll admit, I was utterly confused by that whole section the first three or four times through. Why is she mad? What does it have to do with the gods? But instead of finding it frustrating, I found it fascinating---just another of those QT things that I have to read a zillion times before finally getting it, because MWT is so much smarter than I am! I had fun figuring it out (I think...I'm almost certain I get it now), with the help of others on this comm, of course.

So maybe she just needs to reread it a couple times.

You know, drashizu, I was confused, too, esp. since the advance copy was different from the final one, which explained it a little more. This would make a great discussion question of its own, if you ever feel like posting it. I think it's been touched on before, but not to any great degree.

Cactus juice. Hee.

I agree with you, except I don't think you need to read other, less good literature to see how well MWT holds up. If someone doesn't recognize the genius, well, it's their loss :)

I most certainly do not think one needs to read bad literature in order to recognize the good! I'm very sorry if I ever gave that impression. I meant that if one doesn't like HP, reading Twilight should be his or her punishment, not that people need to read Twilight in order to see how good HP is.

Me too. The political stuff's nearly my favorite part. (The trophy would have to go to any scene with Gen in it, period. Especially when he's baiting somebody.)

Lol, poor Gen, the world just kind of falls in his lap and he's like "I don't want this... give it to Irene!" But seriously, I think he's doing what he knows is best for their chances against the Medes. They do need to be united, they don't need to be squabbling amongst themselves and their barons as well as fighting a huge international war. He'll be fair.

And yeah, didn't MWT say that this was an in-between book? She said she didn't expect Sophos to get his own entire book, it just kind of happened. So I consider this an intermission/treat.

And I bet that was the gods' intention since the beginning, for Gen to become king of Attolia and wherever else, probably to defeat the Medes and maybe rule the world.

As an intermission/treat it was definitely a fulfilling/tasty one for me!

That's my feeling, that Gen will rule Eddis/Sounis/Attolia in order to fight off all the other countries (Medes) that are trying to take them over. So we're finally there, and I am so excited to see how it'll turn out...

haha yeah Gen is going to take over the world... or is he?
I have this creeping whisper in the back of my head that Gen is going to die. You know, with his illness and all... Someone PLEASE tell me this is stupid. I'm getting depressed. Sure if he does die then he'll go out in glorious it-was-for-the-good-of-the-world fanfare and the official explanation probably won't me 'died of longstanding illness' but that would suck
help me get this out of my head!

I'm afraid of Gen dying, too!! :( BUT someone pointed out to me that if Gen dies, it's GOT to be by falling, not from illness. I just can't imagine him dying any other way, as a thief and all. Hope that's some consolation --it was for me, cause it makes the illness seem less threatening...

(Although that doesn't rule out his pulling a Dumbledore, and falling to his death when he knows he's got a terminal illness anyway....... And THAT idea is not consoling at all, is it. Urg).

OK, maybe this'll be more hopeful: There's also Relius's prediction about Gen and Irene having "a golden age" for a while (when Irene and Relius talk in the hospital?). Whether this will happen before or after the Medes are defeated, I don't know. But surely if his prediction is going to come true, Gen can't die for a good while.

I guess all we can do is trust to MWT's brilliance... maybe the foreshadowing about illness is gonna come into the plot some other way. A way that does not involve sad deathlike things!!! :(

"Sure if he does die then he'll go out in glorious it-was-for-the-good-of-the-world fanfare."

This is my issue with the thought of Gen dying. The way the story has been set up I don't see how it could be for the good of the world. And can you imagine what it would do to Irene?

IAWTC. If he dies, it'll make. Everything. Horrible.

Well, if not the world, he's certainly taking over the peninsula, isn't he? But, with the gods behind him, who knows the extent of what he'll end up ruling?

See now, rather than nonsensical, I found the romance very realistic. Much more so than the romance of Gen and Irene. Both Helen and Sophos are realists, and understand their duty to their countries. But maybe the writer didn't like the romance because it *was* realistic, rather than fairy-tale-ish.

I'm voting for the "golden age" rather than the "death by illness." Didn't Megan say once that there will be no inglorious for Gen? Of course, that doesn't rule out sacrifice, a la Dumbledore.

I definitely agree--Sophos & Helen's romance is much more believeable/realistic compared to Gen & Irene's. Maybe it wasn't a shock for that particular reader, but just from people I've suggested these books to I know that for many or most readers, the idea of Gen & Irene is VERY hard to swallow at first. (SHE. CUT. OFF. HIS. HAND!) (And odd/pathetic as it sounds, I really and truly don't remember my original reaction. At all.) Sophos & Helen write letters, they like and respect each other (and he, at least, has a pretty big crush on her), and they know that their union would be for the good of both of their countries. Definitely a healthier relationship.

Oh, I remember my reaction. It was very hard to buy, at first. At the end of QoA I was very, very worried about poor Gen. I was certain Attolia ( I couldn't think of her as Irene, not yet) would decide this wasn't a good idea, after all.

TOTALLY OT: how's AGATB treating you?

I LIKE IT! I'm nearly done, and have the other two books sitting here. I've been meaning to read them for ages. It's nothing like I expected--had no idea it was a boarding school setting. Have you read them?

I can't remember my original reaction either. I think my reaction when I read it the second time around was ohmygosh this is the best romance EVER. I don't think it was ever so hard for me to accept the fact that he loved her despite the whole hand-cutting thing, but then again, I read QoA first, and so I fell in love with both Eugenides and Attolia at the same time (and really, I loved Attolia more).

I think my favorite part of Sophos/Helen is how he's crazy for her, and they go through all these healthy steps, like you say, and Helen is clearly like well, he's nice, I might as well settle for it--and then suddenly bam she realizes she actually loves him; she's not just settling for political gain and personal non-discomfort, she's really invested in the relationship. (And magus and Attolia being all older than Gen and Sophos and knowing what it's like to think you'll never find love and Attolia grabbing her hand and d'aaaaaaaaaaaaaaw.)

and then suddenly bam she realizes she actually loves him

Yes--and because it was Eddis and Sophos (rather than Gen and Irene) there were no creepy nighttime gifts, amputated body parts, boat poles, juggled knives, smacks to the head, broken crockery, or flying inkpots.

MUCH healthier. But just as romantic, in its own way.

I must be strange because I totally bought Gen and Irene from the beginning. But that could be because I loved Irene's character (even with the hand chopping) just as much as Gen. I didn't want to have to choose between them so I was jazzed they were combining their awesomeness.

And I don't think that their relationship is less healthy than the Sophos/Helen relationship. It is definitely more dramatic. But I think that reflects their personalitlies more than anything. Gen would be completely bored with any relationship that wasn't dramatic. And Irene wouldn't have even registered the possibility of love unless someone hit her over the head with it like Gen did (witness Dite).

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought so :) I LOVE Helen and Sophos just as much, although it's like the others mentioned, their romance is quite a bit different than Gen and Irene's.

...and of course I meant "inglorious death for Gen." Gah.

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