F-F-F-Falling

[drashizu.livejournal.com]

So, I've been rereading The King of Attolia (what else is new?) and I've come across two passages that are, interestingly, in contradiction with each other.

(1) "I have a superstitious fear of falling," Eugenides admitted. "Let me put an arm over your shoulder while we get down the stairs." (p. 169)

(2) "Your Majesty, please get down," Costis said hurriedly. ...
"Why? Costis, I'm not going to fall."
"You're drunk."
"Not that drunk," said the king. "Watch." He tossed the wineskin to Costis, who caught it and clutched it in horror as the king turned himself upside down... (p. 338)

What do you guys think? Obviously, this is about as open to interpretation as it gets, but why the change of opinion? In one scene, he's scared by the mere thought of walking down a flight of stairs. In the other, he gladly does handstands on the crenelations with no apparent fear at all. Is it just that in the scene on the parapets he's drunk, as Costis claims, and that's why he brushes aside the concern that he might fall?

Then again, Gen's entire profession prior to becoming king involved heights. And as we know, he's never seemed to be afraid of them before. If he usually has faith in the God of Thieves to keep him from falling, why the sudden phobia in the garden scene? He's not even on a wall in that one, it's just the top of a flight of stairs. Hardly dangerous to someone with the proven balance of a master thief.

Then again then again, there's that whole thing about how his grandfather died... falling down stairs. Is that why Gen's afraid of stairs particularly? Maybe it's just the sudden shock of the previous scene. Being almost assassinated would certainly heighten his sense of his own mortality.

And for that matter, how certain are we that Gen's going to die of a fall? I mean, it's never explicitly promised by the author or anything. There's no prophecy saying so. It's just a tendency that his family has, due to their line of work, but is there anyone in his family that stopped being the Thief and became the king of a whole country? Maybe that changes things.

So---in terms of this many-faceted question---what do you guys think?

(Please excuse the lame musical joke in the title of this post. It's late and I'm bored.)

Comments

[bluestalking.livejournal.com]

Don't forget that his mother also died of a fall, and not while working; there are other lines that indicate that history as well as legend influence his superstition.

Where he is feeling drunk, angry and reckless on the castle walls, he has just been STABBED IN THE BODY on the castle steps. I think you're right about his heightened sense of his own mortality in that scene, but I also think that he really feels more likely to fall--he still feels largely in control on the crenellations, but on the stairs he is putting all his effort into walking and seeming calm, even assisted by Costis.

And perhaps he thinks that if the gods didn't let him die when he was more likely to, they wouldn't let him die falling off the roof, before he'd fulfilled any obvious purpose.

[pigrescuer.livejournal.com]

What bluestalking said - he was drunk on the wall whereas on the steps he'd just been stabbed.

However, interesting point - he clearly still believes that he is a theif, that his god is Eugenides and that Theives only die of falls. But is he? Kings die for lots of reasons - assassination, like Attolia's father, sickness, like Eddis' and Sophos', and presumably occasionally in battle.

[pigrescuer.livejournal.com]

I CANNOT SPELL

[keestone.livejournal.com]

He's got a pretty nasty gut wound. I'd say he needs help with the stairs and still doesn't want to admit it.

(Also he's drinking because he's too aware of the gods' will and presence and wants to stop thinking about it but can't, which includes the protection/curse for the Thiefs of Eddis.)

[kitsune-rains.livejournal.com]

I think there's mention somewhere in one of the books (KoA? Sorry, don't have them handy) of the fact that Gen was possibly never relieved of his oath to Eddis (the country) that he took when he became Thief. Everyone is very vague about what might be in that oath, but it is implied that it lasts for life. While Gen is king now, I believe that the Thief is a large part of him and has somehow wound itself into his position as ruler.

But I also don't think he believes a fall is the only way he could die. Why then would he have his father strangle him to keep Attolia from having her revenge? Like he said, maybe it's more of a superstition that can be mocked when you're feeling confidant or reckless but when you've just had a brush with death seems all too real.

[bookaddict88.livejournal.com]

He's got a pretty nasty gut wound. I'd say he needs help with the stairs and still doesn't want to admit it.

That was my interpretation, too.

On the other hand, as others have said, I don't think that he really believes the only way he can die is through a fall. Also, we know he is pretty cocky. So when he's up on the rooftops, it's not just that he trusts his god to catch him if he falls, but he trusts himself not to let himself fall in the first place.

[elvenjaneite.livejournal.com]

In addition to all the other good points here, his grandfather died falling down stairs.

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

Oh dear, LJ has eaten my earlier comment on the subject. Will try again.

I think yes, all of the above, but also doesn't Gen say something to Costis like "You'll never die of a fall unless the god himself drops you"? It's faith that the god keeps him safe but also the knowledge that sometimes the god DOES drop you. For a Thief, dying by a fall seems to be his destiny and also his right. It's inconsistent because it's a paradox. Gen's feelings about it are contradictory because he's human. The two possibilities always exist side by side.

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

...and if he'd fallen down the stairs just then, he would have died of assassination AND a fall.

[reader-marie.livejournal.com]

This is a very nice way of putting it. It also makes me think of the contradictions in the end of QoA, when Gen's "betrayal" by the gods is referred to as a "fall"--and, as my overutilized quotation marks suggest, isn't precisely either a betrayal or a fall. Gen knows, better than anyone else in these books, how bizarre and sometimes devastating the gods' actions can be.

Also, it's interesting that Gen calls this fear a "superstition," which is a term we don't normally use in connection with the kind of deep faith he exhibits elsewhere. Maybe it's an entirely human relic from his pre-vehement-belief days.

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

Though he may be using "superstitious" for Costis's benefit, assuming he would not understand Gen's beliefs.

[reader-marie.livejournal.com]

Very true--I hadn't thought of that.

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

Remember in QoA when Eddis finds out Gen went back to Attolia to scout out the situation and she's furious with him? Doesn't he say something like, "well, I was afraid so I had to go back"? I think is IS terrified of dying of a fall, whether it's on stairs or wherever. He knows that the gods can kill him in a fall at any time, just in the same way they can save him from a fall at any time. When he's upside down on the crennellations, it's totally Gen being afraid and having to face the fear, like he did when he went back to Attolia.

[bluestalking.livejournal.com]

Actually, the point was that he never had any oaths to Eddis.

[drashizu.livejournal.com]

I like this interpretation.

And I agree, it's highly likely that the oath that was so mysterious in ACoK is the same one Eddis (the queen) mentioned in KoA, that he never took any oaths to her when he became Thief, but swore loyalty to Eddis (the country). Among other things. So maybe he is still a Thief, if only because that's an oath that can't be undone.

[drashizu.livejournal.com]

Nice! I like this explanation too. It *is* kind of a paradox, isn't it? And if it's hard for us to pick it apart exactly, how hard would it be for Gen, whose life it directly affects, to know how to feel about it either?

[drashizu.livejournal.com]

Ooh, I hadn't thought of that. That's true---Gen always does have to one-up everyone else, even if it means one-upping himself. (Did that make any sense? I meant that if it became a contest between Gen and his fear of falling/the gods/his own destiny, he'd have to do something deliberately to prove to himself that he wasn't afraid, thereby "winning" against his fear.) I like all of the different shades of meaning Sounis is bringing to this question!

[(Anonymous)]

(Lurker who is breifly de-lurking, because this is an interesting question)

Huh. I never read the first quote as Gen being serious - I always thought he was he was using a fear of falling as an excuse, so he didn't have to admit that he couldn't actually get up the stairs on his own.

[drashizu.livejournal.com]

Interesting---that hadn't even occurred to me. I guess I sort of assumed it was truthful because it had to do with this Big Issue that appears elsewhere in the book. But it's not exactly like Gen never lies to save face, is it?

[jade-sabre-301.livejournal.com]

it's not just that he trusts his god to catch him if he falls, but he trusts himself not to let himself fall in the first place.

ah-hahahahaha this made me laugh. The first part of the sentence is what I was thinking about in terms of the OP's question: like, on the parapets, he's busy being like THE GODS, CANNOT GET THEM OUT OF MY HEAD, HAVE TOTAL FAITH IN THEM BUT WANT TO BE ALONE, but the cockiness is totally there too. :-D

[jade-sabre-301.livejournal.com]

*cue magus staring at Queen of Eddis*

[jade-sabre-301.livejournal.com]

totally OT:

me: what does that icon say?
me: *reads icon*
me: THAT ICON IS AWESOME.
me: *reads icon to roommate*
roommate: oooooooooh, like it would never reach the bottom?
me: yeah! except you'd have to make sure the rate of falling and the rate of ascent were the same.
roommate: wouldn't the rate of falling need to be less?
me: but then it would go back to the top!
roommate: true, true.

/nerd times over iconages.

*shines a spotlight on your comment*

[jade-sabre-301.livejournal.com]

once again, Philia does awesome things with words where she says what I was thinking in the most wonderfully eloquent way imaginable.

:-D

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

Got my book--here's what it says:

"I was afraid. I couldn't just sit here being afraid and doing nothing about it."

[pico-the-great.livejournal.com]

I would answer, but I am distracted by the first Yu Yu Hakusho icon I have seen in ages. AGES. ♥ that show so damn much ... ah, my teenagerhood :D

[ballerina-222.livejournal.com]

total icon love here! The Japanese covers for these books are awesome.

Re: *shines a spotlight on your comment*

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

*hugs Jade for being Jade*

[katecoombs.livejournal.com]

I agree with De-lurker; as we find out after the altercation with the physician about stitching Gen up (when Irene faints), he is more badly injured than anyone suspects. He really DOES need to lean on Costis. But his whole schtick going from the garden to his rooms is "must maintain devil-may-care appearance," partly to save face with his not-so-well wishers of the Attolian court and specifically so as not to upset his wife. The superstition about falling line strikes me as Gen's dry humor, with, as others have said above, reference to his mother's death by falling and his uneasy relationship with the God of Thieves. He's had a close call, but now he's manipulating Costis and the onlookers and--he hopes--his worried spouse.

[lizzlo.livejournal.com]

On a completely unrelated note: You have the best icon ever!

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

They ARE!

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

He does and he doesn't. Helen said the Thieves of Eddis don't swear loyalty to the rulers of Eddis only to Eddis itself. It just depends on your definition of Eddis on this instance - mountain country or mountain queen.

Re: *shines a spotlight on your comment*

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

*hugs Philia for being so smart*

[drashizu.livejournal.com]

Yay! Another YYH fan! I just finished re-watching the entire series and I'm still a little bubbly because of it :) So I made icons!

[drashizu.livejournal.com]

Although, I realize after the fact that that implied that I made the icon I used just there, which I didn't. That one, I yoinked. I made this one though ^

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Yay! More YYH fans!

*celebrates*

I didn't think anyone watched that show.

[pico-the-great.livejournal.com]

I didn't think anyone watched that show.

Oh god are you kidding that show was such an enormous part of my high school existance that it is not even funny.

:D

Love that show somuch :D

[pico-the-great.livejournal.com]

:D! So when I was tiny (14) I watched parts of the series on Toonami, back when Toonami showed awesome things like Ruroni Kenshin and YYH and original Gundam. Then I lurked the fandom for years. But just two years ago I watched the whole series beginning to end for the first time, and oh man, oh man it re-rose to one of my favorites. Partially nostalgia, partially pure, unalloyed awesome.

:D

So yeah. Heartmaaaaarrrrrrks for YYH ♥ :D

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Me too! I love finding Sounisians who share fandoms with me. This comm is so awesome!

[drashizu.livejournal.com]

Totally! And Toonami's where I discovered it too (along with the also-awesome Ruroni Kenshin). Soooo good!

[filkferengi]

These are some great comments on the various ways Gen may fall or be afraid of it.

Also, don't forget, as Attolis he's juggling far more than when he was just a Thief. Now that he's juggling whole countries & being king & all, he's got much more at stake and much further to fall and more reason to fear that fall, because he can more clearly see how far the consequences extend.

[meerclar-heidi.livejournal.com]

When he does handstands on the crenelations, it's not because he has no fear, as such. I think he does it because he's just had a message from the Gods telling him that he -will- be king of Attolia, and he's pushing back at them, as is his way.
Sort of like: 'Oh, I will, will I? Well, I guess you won't let me fall then, will you?' Since supposedly the thieves can only fall if their God lets them, and apparently the Gods have other plans for him. So it's less that he isn't scared and more that he's being a bit of a brat. If anything, he's up there because he IS scared. He's scared of being the king. When the gods intervene to stop him falling, he seems to sober right up, because Gods talking to you is something scarier than having to be king, right?

And when he's injured, he might well be covering and coming up with an excuse to lean on Costis, but as other people have said, he -is- very injured from being stabbed, and he probably does have a superstition of falling. He might know that he can die in other ways, but he also believes that he will die from a fall, as is his right as a thief, and he probably doesn't want to push fate and risk a fall when he's already injured.

[claire-mirkwood.livejournal.com]

...I love how we're all psychoanalyzing this little thing that might be a slip by Megan. [/wet-blanket-ness]

Anyway, in addition to the awesome comments by all the awesome Sounisians who've posted, I feel like I should mention something I thought of.
It's impossible not to be afraid of falling. Basic survival instincts there. So maybe Gen is afraid of falling, afraid of death, but that's good. It means he won't do something stupid. Why did he choose to mention that to Costis? No clue.
However, on the battlements, Gen is drunk and outraged. Maybe his daredevil stunt is a way of calling out for attention to the gods: "Fine, you won't listen to me? I'll MAKE you listen." Maybe he has some muddled idea of making his god step in to save him, to show some favor. I picture his train of thought running like this:
They play havoc with my life, they betray me, they use me, but they're not done with me yet. They won't let me fall.
So when he does fall, and the gods step in to fix things, he's amazed...he wasn't really expecting that kind of answer.
I don't know. It's 11 PM here, and I'm tired. But this makes sense to me.

[hazelwillow.livejournal.com]

Gen's fear of falling/confidence that he won't fall signifies where his faith is at in that moment. If he's afraid of falling in the scene after the attempted assassination, it means he's afraid of being abandoned by his god. He's just had to save himself from the assassins, and has just killed (or nearly killed) two men. Maybe that has something to do with it? Maybe the fact that he had to save his own skin from those assassins has made him doubt that the gods are pleased with his job as king so far. Maybe he feels uncertain about his position in life and in their favor in that moment. Maybe the gods just tried to kill him there and they're going to finish the job in just a minute on the stairs.
Also, as people have said, he's wounded and much more likely to lose his balance and slip. So that must feel vulnerable.

About the roof scene, someone mentioned that he's reacting to the gods' message that he's going to have to be Attolis, and I think that's right. He's calling the gods bluff. For making him stay in this mess of being king, because he's drunk and most likely feels helpless. Only when the gods do actually save him does he realize what he's almost done, and come back to himself.

So it's not about vertigo or how afraid he is of heights, it's about how he feels about the gods right then. He's superstitious about it either way, because he always associates falling with Eugenides's favor or lack thereof.