[identity profile] madclairvoyant.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] queensthief
So I've noticed how some characters lose a limb or the use of it in many books. LIke in The Lost Symbol, there is Peter Solomon's missing hand, and then in Harry Potter there is Peter (I'm seeing a pattern here) Pettigrew's missing one, and Sirius almost loses one to a bread knife. Then in Gathering Blue, Kira is born a cripple. Of course, there is Gen.

So are there anymore characters you have come across that are missing a limb, or otherwise handicapped?
And do you think this reflects the real world to any extent?

Date: 7/8/13 08:15 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] etv13.livejournal.com
Lots, but I can't talk about them without spoilers: Lew Alton in Marion Zimmer Bradley's Darkover books loses a hand; Sid Halley starts Odds Against with a badly injured hand and ends up having to have it amputated; Luke Skywalker; Marcus in The Eagle of the Ninth has a badly injured leg that leaves him with a limp, as does Mildmay in Sarah Monette's Doctrine of Labyrinths books: the hero of Warrior Scarlet, whose name escapes me, is born with an arm that doesn't function fully. The heroine is Victoria Holt's Menfreya in the morning was born with one leg longer than the other and walks with a limp. Miles Vorkosigan is significantly physically challenged (small stature, brittle bones, god knows what else) as a result of a toxic attack on his mother before he was born. Cazaril in The Curse of Chalion has crippling adhesions resulting from being whipped as a galley slave, though I think they mostly work their way out over the course of the book. The Treasure of Green Knowe features a blind heroine.

Date: 7/13/13 03:10 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
that would be Drem in Warrior Scarlet
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Date: 7/9/13 04:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hazelwillow.livejournal.com
I like your thoughts on Luke. That must touch on why the immediate inclusion of the prosthesis, even though it meant we never saw Luke dealing with any long-term effects of his handicap, never felt like a cop-out to me. Certainly not a convenience that undermined the significance of the loss, anyway. You've enunciated why, because it's not really about dealing with the physical handicap so much as the spiritual loss implied, and the pay off of the whole thing is still to come. Yes. Which it does, when he chops off Vader's hand in the next movie in a fit of rage, and sees in their robotic similarity how close he's come to being like his father. So the prosthesis isn't a cop-out - in fact it's a vital part of the symbolism. In Luke's case, that hand is a possibility of darkness, the first step to becoming more machine than man, the way Vader is.

You could say the pain of that experience of losing innocence, symbolized by losing his hand, let darkness into Luke's soul along with the darkness of finding out who his father was. But you could also say that having experienced that pain allowed him to recognize darkness in himself, and so resist it (literally, looking at the similarity between their physical hands snapped him out of his rage). So that has something positive to say about the merits of experience and the usefulness of painful experiences if you can grow from them. Luke's journey is all about that in some ways, I think. Moving beyond innocence as a positive thing.

Isn't it interesting that in Luke/Vader's case, the handicap is hidden? They look functional and in Vader's case are stronger than they were before, but are vulnerable in a hidden way. Even Luke's hand is hidden under a glove. Eugenides's handicap is very overt and very visible by comparison. Gen tends to appear weak, and be strong invisibly. The opposite.

And now, because I've been reading Lois McMaster Bujold lately (for the first time; i know there are lots of her fans here), I'm thinking about the medical technology in the worlds of Gen, Luke, and Miles and the way each are used. The technology in Star Wars is a symbolic means to an end, in Miles's world it's an exploration of what the technology means in terms of how we are human and what that means, and in Gen's case... the technology or lack thereof grounds the books in a sense of realism. Even though there are gods, and Gen is extraordinary, he can't shoot an arrow, or fold a piece of paper, because of physical limits.

I think Miles and Gen have more in common than either do to Luke. Luke's injury is spiritual, as you said. Miles and Gen are both forced to confront the reality of their physical existence, and their stories are more about that (among other things). That has a deep psychological (and spiritual) component, but the physical is important and that's part of the point.

Date: 7/8/13 07:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] booksrgood4u.livejournal.com
Kavi, from the Farsala Trilogy has a crippled right hand....So does Johnny Tremain, for that matter.
Strell from the Truth Series lost part of his pinky.
The guy in Chime whose name I can't remember lost a hand, too.
Paul McCormick from Faery Rebels lost the use of his legs.

Date: 7/8/13 08:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] manderelee.livejournal.com
The guy in Chime whose name I can't remember lost a hand, too.

I was thinking about him too. Unfortunately, I have the same problem, lol. I think it's because I wasn't exactly overly fond of Chime. Eldric?? Alric? Elric? Simba-boy.... I remember Briony mentions he looks like a lion or something.

Yes, Paul. I was going to mention him too. Auugh, Paul.... *heartache*

Peeta from the Hunger Games lost a leg, but I don't think it really affected him much, because he got a bionic one after that.

Po from Graceling lost his eyesight, but his Grace made up for it.

Raven from Raging Quiet by Sherryl Jordan is deaf, and has suffered greatly because of it.

Anluan from Juliet Marillier's Heart's Blood has been deformed and crippled by sickness.

I'm just listing characters off the top of my head, because I'm currently at work, and don't have any good analysis for [livejournal.com profile] madclairvoyant's topic yet, but I'll try to come back with some thoughts later.
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Date: 7/9/13 02:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] 1221bookworm.livejournal.com
I think Peeta was affected with the disability, even with the bionic limb, because it wasn't his. I remember being very upset that the movie didn't include Peeta losing his leg. I thought it was important that it showed their hardship. Especially since it is harder to show the emotional hardship in the movie, it was important, I think, to show the physical hardship. I do think that he had difficulty in the 2nd games, remember Finnich had to carry him when they were running from the mist/haze because Peeta couldn't keep up with them because he couldn't move as well.

Date: 7/9/13 03:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] 1221bookworm.livejournal.com
Yeah for Paul! I was going to mention him too. And in response to the question about how it reflects real life, I'm glad Paul always chose to *not* have his injury fixed by magic, because I think all too often, in fantasy, magic is used as a catch-all cure-all, that takes away responsibility for previous actions. Paul was hit by a car, and he now has to live with the consequences of his injury. (I'm stepping off my soap box now. And I would love to see Paul get to walk again, not like I'm being cruel or something, but I also think it shows a strength of character to accept his fate.)

And Kavi was affected by a bitterness caused by his injury. And the books showed how he had to overcome the bitterness, and it showed the struggle to overcome mental demons.

Date: 7/9/13 04:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] live-momma.livejournal.com
In Sharon Shinn's The Dream-Maker's Magic, Gryffin is born with a physical disability, and it's made worse by an abusive uncle.

On an unrelated note, if anyone knows of any good Gryffin/Kellen fic, I'd love to read it.

Date: 7/9/13 12:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] keestone.livejournal.com
An oldie but goodie: Howard Pyle's Otto of the Silver Hand. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_of_the_Silver_Hand

It's been ages since I've read it though.

Date: 7/9/13 10:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] freenarnian.livejournal.com
Not sure if this has been mentioned already, but 'silver hand' reminded me of Stephen Lawhead's Albion Trilogy, the 2nd book of which is called The Silver Hand... for, um, observable reasons. (Love the character of Llew!)

Date: 7/9/13 03:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] 1221bookworm.livejournal.com
Slightly off topic, but I think books often show people who are emotionally crippled, even if they have no physical handicap. I'm currently reading Well of Ascension from the Mistborn books by Brandon Sanderson, and many characters have "emotional" hardships that affect their outlook on life. 2 of the guys had the women they loved killed by the nobility, and so they have a certain preoccupation with the fact that *all* nobility must pay. The main character, Vin, has been taught that she can trust nobody, and everybody will betray her. This attitude leads to her evesdropping on conversations that she shouldn't, as well as following her "mentor" into a dangerous situation because he didn't *tell* her where he was going (Because she was not yet experienced enough to accompany him) She nearly died from the following adventure.

I think both the physical and emotional handicaps help to show, in the context of an exiting adventure story, the importance of overcoming obstacles.

Date: 7/9/13 11:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] agentmaly.livejournal.com
It seems like whenever somebody loses a hand, they always lose the right one. Not only Eugenides and Anakin and Luke Skywalker, but also Beren and Maedhros in Tolkien's Silmarillion. Beren even becomes Beren Erchamion in recognition of this - Beren One-Handed. I've just looked up what that would be in Greek - there's the word acheiros, meaning without hand(s), but that tends to indicate an inherent state. Maybe encheiros or enacheiros for one-handed? I don't know enough Greek to create compounds with impunity. Maybe someone can help me?

Date: 7/11/13 10:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ricardienne.livejournal.com
Telemakos in Elizabeth Wein's Mark of Solomon loses an arm (his left arm, I think; it has to be taken off at the shoulder). In his case, I'm not sure that someone in the real-world 5th century would survive the kind of wounds and amputation he suffers in that incident.

Date: 7/15/13 10:03 pm (UTC)
filkferengi: filk fandom--all our life's a circle (lj--made by redaxe--filk fandom)
From: [personal profile] filkferengi
Don't forget Dag in Bujold's Sharing Knife books. The way he lost his hand, the effects it had on how he sees himself, his adaptations and how he not only overcomes but in some ways extends his reach [in more ways than one, lol] are central to the series.

Date: 7/17/13 09:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] etv13.livejournal.com
One more: Ward of Hurog in Patricia Briggs's Dragon Bones and Dragon Blood has brain damage from being beaten by his insanely abusive father. It affects his ability to speak, and he uses that to make people think he's stupid and unthreatening (mainly his father, so he won't kill him).

Date: 7/19/13 08:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mary-j-59.livejournal.com
What an interesting discussion! I can't believe I'm the first person to mention this but, of course, Frodo loses his finger in LOTR! But it's his spiritual wounds that never heal.

Neat stuff about the spiritual/psychological wounds in fiction, and about the prevalance of loss of right hands! Which brings me to something rather different: a very fine older middle-grade/younger ya novel, based on fact, called One-handed Catch. It's by MJ Auch, and is based on the life of her husband, who actually did lose his hand in a meat grinder as a small boy. It's set in post WWII New York/Connecticut, in a German/American community, and is full of fine period detail. I found it a real eye-opener.

I'm Deidre's sister, btw. I haven't been here in ahwile!
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