Intro, questions, comments
Nov. 2nd, 2006 11:26 am![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
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queensthiefI have just joined Live Journal and have no idea what I'm doing, so please bear with me if I commit any egregious idiocies. I tried posting this yesterday and it doesn't seem to have shown up, so I'll try again. Watch it magically turn into a double post.
I've only just read the books for the first time, starting last Thursday. I read KING first, because I was looking over the new books I had ordered for my library and it was one of them. Many of the reviewers on Amazon, for example, said the books should be read in order, but I can testify to the fact that one can easily be hooked by KING without having read the others. I think I enjoyed it all the more because I didn't know any more than Costis did, and had to figure out with him what was going on, and decide whether his interpretation of something was the right one. Granted, reading KING meant that I knew all sorts of spoilers for THIEF and QUEEN; but with books this good *how* something happens is just as important as *what* happens.
I couldn't get my hands on QUEEN until yesterday, but I had gone hunting online and come across this - forum? community? however one describes it, and enjoyed reading the discussions regarding KING and THIEF.
A couple of questions that have been nagging at me (and if they've already been discussed, I apologize; I didn't come across those discussions as I wended my way through the posts):
What do you all think that Eugenides told Dite in the maze? We're told that he warned Dite to warn his brother, but how much of what was going on did he tell Dite? "I love the Queen?" "The Queen loves me?" "I'm not actually quite such a useless, feeble nit as everyone thinks?" "I'm planning to destroy your House because it's a danger to the Throne?" "Boy, is your song ever inaccurate, and let me tell you in complete detail how inaccurate it is?"
The new covers on the books are beautiful; but just exactly how does someone hide a rock the size of a bagel in the top of his braid without anyone's noticing it?
Am I over-interpreting when I think that the line in chapter 2 of QUEEN: "She had to consider that Eugenides, though he'd caused her no harm beyond stealing something she hadn't known she possessed..." could easily, even at that point, apply not only to Hamiathes's Gift, but to her heart? (Or, alternately, is that one of those things where everybody's going to look at me, roll their eyes, and say, "Well, duhhhh...?")
At what point did Attolia go from wanting to keep the sovereignty of her country for herself, king or no king, to wanting Eugenides to be king in fact as well as in name?
At the beginning of KING, after the getting-Costis-drunk scene, Eugenides asks Attolia if she still wishes she'd hanged him. She says, "Men's necks have been broken by a single blow." What's she talking about? Is she saying Costis could easily have killed him?
Brilliant observations that I've made that are probably either way out in left field or have already been discussed to death:
In QUEEN, Eddis tells Eugenides, "Steal peace." He literally does - he steals Irene, who is rather bitter about the fact that her name means "peace". She also tells him to steal her more time. If the next book introduces somebody whose name is Chronos, I know who's next in line to be kidnaped!
After Relius's arrest, the queen is in her room, silent, and the king joins her, "silent as sunlight on stone." In QUEEN Attolia thinks back to the day she became queen in fact as well as in name, and that she "was the stone-faced queen, then and ever after." So when I read this I was thinking of Attolia, cold, stony, and Eugenides, bringing warmth and light to her...
I found it rather endearing that Attolia had absolutely no idea that Dite was in love with her, and thought Eugenides must be joking when he told her about it, and was blushing at the very thought.
I'll stop now. If I've done this completely wrong, please let me know! I'm used to posting boards and lists, but not live journals.
Leslie, who chose aged_crone as her user name because she's in her 40's and everybody else here seems to be in college at the very most...
I've only just read the books for the first time, starting last Thursday. I read KING first, because I was looking over the new books I had ordered for my library and it was one of them. Many of the reviewers on Amazon, for example, said the books should be read in order, but I can testify to the fact that one can easily be hooked by KING without having read the others. I think I enjoyed it all the more because I didn't know any more than Costis did, and had to figure out with him what was going on, and decide whether his interpretation of something was the right one. Granted, reading KING meant that I knew all sorts of spoilers for THIEF and QUEEN; but with books this good *how* something happens is just as important as *what* happens.
I couldn't get my hands on QUEEN until yesterday, but I had gone hunting online and come across this - forum? community? however one describes it, and enjoyed reading the discussions regarding KING and THIEF.
A couple of questions that have been nagging at me (and if they've already been discussed, I apologize; I didn't come across those discussions as I wended my way through the posts):
What do you all think that Eugenides told Dite in the maze? We're told that he warned Dite to warn his brother, but how much of what was going on did he tell Dite? "I love the Queen?" "The Queen loves me?" "I'm not actually quite such a useless, feeble nit as everyone thinks?" "I'm planning to destroy your House because it's a danger to the Throne?" "Boy, is your song ever inaccurate, and let me tell you in complete detail how inaccurate it is?"
The new covers on the books are beautiful; but just exactly how does someone hide a rock the size of a bagel in the top of his braid without anyone's noticing it?
Am I over-interpreting when I think that the line in chapter 2 of QUEEN: "She had to consider that Eugenides, though he'd caused her no harm beyond stealing something she hadn't known she possessed..." could easily, even at that point, apply not only to Hamiathes's Gift, but to her heart? (Or, alternately, is that one of those things where everybody's going to look at me, roll their eyes, and say, "Well, duhhhh...?")
At what point did Attolia go from wanting to keep the sovereignty of her country for herself, king or no king, to wanting Eugenides to be king in fact as well as in name?
At the beginning of KING, after the getting-Costis-drunk scene, Eugenides asks Attolia if she still wishes she'd hanged him. She says, "Men's necks have been broken by a single blow." What's she talking about? Is she saying Costis could easily have killed him?
Brilliant observations that I've made that are probably either way out in left field or have already been discussed to death:
In QUEEN, Eddis tells Eugenides, "Steal peace." He literally does - he steals Irene, who is rather bitter about the fact that her name means "peace". She also tells him to steal her more time. If the next book introduces somebody whose name is Chronos, I know who's next in line to be kidnaped!
After Relius's arrest, the queen is in her room, silent, and the king joins her, "silent as sunlight on stone." In QUEEN Attolia thinks back to the day she became queen in fact as well as in name, and that she "was the stone-faced queen, then and ever after." So when I read this I was thinking of Attolia, cold, stony, and Eugenides, bringing warmth and light to her...
I found it rather endearing that Attolia had absolutely no idea that Dite was in love with her, and thought Eugenides must be joking when he told her about it, and was blushing at the very thought.
I'll stop now. If I've done this completely wrong, please let me know! I'm used to posting boards and lists, but not live journals.
Leslie, who chose aged_crone as her user name because she's in her 40's and everybody else here seems to be in college at the very most...
Musings
Date: 11/2/06 06:53 pm (UTC)Very insightful observations! In no particular order, here are some of my thoughts on your comments.
1)
Very good! I hadn't connected that before.
2)
*laughs*
There is a previous post (dh? can you find it?) where MWT comments on this.
3)
Yes, I think so.
4)
Very good insight!
5)
Previous post. Link, someone? I don't know how to do insert links.
Re: Musings
Date: 11/3/06 12:33 am (UTC)http://community.livejournal.com/sounis/28670.html
Re: Musings
From:no subject
Date: 11/2/06 07:11 pm (UTC)Your observations are really insightful - I like the one about Gen "bringing warmth and light to her" And I can't belive I missed the thing about Irene literally being peace.
"Men's necks have been broken by a single blow." I completely missed this one's relevance to Costis.
I only seem to notice the subleties like 10 years later. If everyone says "Well, duhhh!", it'll be to me.
You're not an aged crone! (Isn't that right, Jade?) There are others who aren't in college/school.
no subject
Date: 11/2/06 09:43 pm (UTC)lj!
Date: 11/2/06 11:30 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 11/2/06 07:12 pm (UTC)Love the "steal peace" thought, and "sunlight on stone." Those are new ones for me.
I just recently said that I think Attolia came around to wanting Eugenides to be king somewhere between the second and third books. She seems to have made up her mind about it by their wedding night, since she's already "making her move."
What did Eugenides say to Dite in the garden? I think you have to start by speculating on what exactly was in that rude song... My own imaginings are as follows: besides whatever other off-color insults might be in the song, I think it probably makes fun of the king for having only one hand. And I think Eugenides says something to the effect of, "She cried over this," holding up the hook. In other words, I think he made it clear to Dite that, while he was willing to listen to insults about himself, he was NOT going to stand by while people made fun of something that caused his wife pain. Of course he knew that would be the last thing loyal, lovestruck Dite would want to do.
On the other hand, they talked for half an hour. Had to be a few other topics in there, too...
-Philia
no subject
Date: 11/2/06 07:20 pm (UTC)Hmmm...I can bring this up in the next chat. It has so many possibilites.
no subject
Date: 11/2/06 08:48 pm (UTC)That's good! I hadn't thought of that.
"On the other hand..."
Is that some kind of sick joke? ;)
Leslie
(no subject)
From: (Anonymous) - Date: 11/2/06 09:32 pm (UTC) - ExpandGarden Scene
Date: 11/2/06 10:59 pm (UTC)Re: Garden Scene
From:Re: Garden Scene
From:no subject
Date: 11/2/06 07:14 pm (UTC)We know that Gen can be pretty persuasive when he wants to be--he's a good storyteller, he's got a glib tongue, and he wouldn't be such a good liar if he weren't very convincing. Given that Dite was/is in love with Attolia, I'd have to guess that Gen simply managed to convince him not only that Gen and Attolia are in love with each other, but that Gen's best for her. Frankly, though, I've got no idea how he'd've done it. (Like Miles, Gen's reasoning is always brilliant but often escapes me...) I like your explanation!
no subject
Date: 11/5/06 08:25 pm (UTC)Me too, - we need a Gen to convince Megan to write a director's cut.
no subject
Date: 11/2/06 07:18 pm (UTC)Peggy's said most of it, but here are some of my thoughts:
"What do you all think that Eugenides told Dite in the maze? We're told that he warned Dite to warn his brother, but how much of what was going on did he tell Dite? "I love the Queen?" "The Queen loves me?" "I'm not actually quite such a useless, feeble nit as everyone thinks?" "I'm planning to destroy your House because it's a danger to the Throne?" "Boy, is your song ever inaccurate, and let me tell you in complete detail how inaccurate it is?""
I think we speculated on this a bit right after KoA came out. I seem to remember (though I could be wrong) us concluding that Gen told Dite that he too, loved the Queen, and added some sort of warning about brining down the house of Erondites. Someone else may be able to remember better...
The new covers on the books are beautiful; but just exactly how does someone hide a rock the size of a bagel in the top of his braid without anyone's noticing it?
*grin* I think Megan referred to it as a stone the size of a yoyo, and wondered the same thing.
In QUEEN, Eddis tells Eugenides, "Steal peace." He literally does - he steals Irene, who is rather bitter about the fact that her name means "peace". She also tells him to steal her more time. If the next book introduces somebody whose name is Chronos, I know who's next in line to be kidnaped!
That's excellent! I hadn't picked up on that at all.
I'll stop now. If I've done this completely wrong, please let me know! I'm used to posting boards and lists, but not live journals.
You haven't done anything wrong at all. Welcome again to the community!
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Date: 11/2/06 09:41 pm (UTC)lol. i have no idea... but it is a pretty cover :)
not "Well, duhhh", but I think it could apply to both. actually I though of her heart first :P
I don't think there was a specific incident that made her change her mind. I think she just realized that Gen would never get any respect or make any decisions on his own for the country unless he took the full responsibility of being king - something he didn't really want. I think it's better explained in the parts of the book with dialogue between the Queen and Ornon and in the sword fighting scene at the end.
Awwwww
no subject
Date: 11/2/06 10:01 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 11/2/06 11:23 pm (UTC)*ahem* To whom exactly are your referring, Rowana, dear? :)
Welcome! The comm can always use more librarians.
Re: Dite in the garden. I think Megan said Gen was so mean that day because he was jealous of tall, hunky, talented Dite. I always thought he said something like, "Look, here's how it is. I love her. She loves me. She cried over what she did to me. I will protect her and care for her. If you truly love her, be on our side."
Since your read KoA first, you may find this thread interesting.
http://community.livejournal.com/sounis/58386.html
no subject
Date: 11/3/06 03:29 pm (UTC)No one. No one at all...
:D
lj names
Date: 11/2/06 11:50 pm (UTC)Again, welcome!
:)
Re: lj names
Date: 11/3/06 12:23 am (UTC)Re: lj names
From:Re: lj names
From:no subject
Date: 11/2/06 11:59 pm (UTC)On your point about Irene commenting that men's necks have been broken with one blow, do you remember during the sword fight at the end? Eugenides said the same thing. She may have known the story about Eugenides grandfather and threw it back at him or maybe there was some kind of connection.
I also like the scene when Attolia realized that Dite loved her and how Eugenides had been brought back down when she also realized his jealousy of Dite.
no subject
Date: 11/3/06 01:08 am (UTC)Re: Dite talking to Gen--I have to agree with Philia on this one. *tries to think of other things they could have talked about* MWT talks about how Gen pushes people's buttons--he probably did some gauging of the Dite/Sejanus affection...through...the pushing of the buttons...and yes, there probably was some "No, I really seriously do love her" on Gen's part.
I LOVED your Hamiathes's Gift observation. I thought it looked odd, myself...isn't the sapphire supposed to be more concealed? *shrugs*
Hm...*ponders sovereignty question* To be honest, I was so confused the first time I read all that, I couldn't figure out WHAT was going on.
AH! *fangirls over "peace" observation and "sunlight" observation* MWT is so brilliant. In this case, it might be one of those unintentional brilliancy things...but it's still brilliant.
Welcome! We are glad to have you!
no subject
Date: 11/3/06 03:06 am (UTC)aww you couldn't be an aged crone...speaking of age, i'm just curious who the YOUNGEST member is...anyone below 10? ;)
Rambunctious youngsters
Date: 11/3/06 04:12 am (UTC)Not me - my youngest child is even older than 10.
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Date: 11/3/06 03:54 am (UTC)Welcome! Looks like you got a lot of feedback to your questions already, but I just wanted to add: I don't think you could possibly convince me (or many people in this community) that you were over-analyzing these books. I have quite a lot of faith in the author that the intricacies are quite deep. I'm always discovering new things each time I read them. Plus, I don't think that there is anyone here who would turn down a good discussion!
Anyway, it's nice to meet you!
no subject
Date: 11/3/06 01:00 pm (UTC)-Philia
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From: (Anonymous) - Date: 11/3/06 05:20 pm (UTC) - Expand(no subject)
From:Time
Date: 11/3/06 07:07 pm (UTC)We'll probably find out the Magus' name is some play on words for "time" :)
*laughs at aged crone icon*
Re: Time
Date: 11/3/06 07:29 pm (UTC)Leslie
Re: Time
From:no subject
Date: 11/3/06 09:48 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 11/4/06 12:09 am (UTC)aged_crone I loved your interpretations/observations!!!
I am another person who did not see that Eugenides literally stole "peace." (And did anyone else completely not get until reading KoA that Eddis's name is Helen?)
~Feir Dearig
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From: (Anonymous) - Date: 11/4/06 08:43 pm (UTC) - Expand(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 11/5/06 03:45 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 11/5/06 08:38 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 11/5/06 09:01 pm (UTC)lol - after being turned off by the original covers with gen-the-rapist I avoided look at the covers too closely and never noticed that. But other than that the covers are beautiful.
I thought it wasn't really about keeping the sovereignty to herself, but about wanting what was best for her citizens/country and not letting some selfish guy (her first husband, Nah., Erondities) suck the country dry for their own benefit/pockets/pleasure. And the reason she wants Gen to be king now is because its what best/safest/prosperous for her country. So I guess she changed her mind when she realized that Gen didn't marry her to become king, he became king to marry her.
I think I read this wrong when I read the books (sort of like thinking hinterland was winterland)but I read at in sort of a 'who's to say she didn't kill him' way - in a prolonged agonizing death rather than a quick hanging with a blow to the neck. Since in KoA Gen was slowly perishing away (so it seemed to me and to the Eddis minister that lost his sheep) from homesickness and loneliness
ROFL I never even got the that reference. Ohh maybe the next time he does something stupid Eddis should go tell him to find Wisdom (Sophos).
P.S. I feel so unspecial since I can't claim to be either one the the youngest or one of the oldest, just one of the college kids in the middle.
no subject
Date: 11/6/06 03:17 am (UTC)