Thick as Thieves Re-Read: Chapters 7-10

[whataliethatwas.livejournal.com]

Welcome to week next of our community Thick as Thieves Reread. This week, we’re covering Chapters 7-10 (p. 182-269 hardback edition), from “I awoke as the sunlight was dimming.” to “Maybe he’ll help some other runaway.”

Being new to actually showing up for a book discussion on time, I’ve browsed past discussions and tried a few formats, and I think we’ll continue the precedent set this discussion with a brief summary and discussion of key themes and events rather than trying to delve into everything I found interesting (which was basically everything). 

To recap: 

Chapter 7: Costis is a soldier, Kamet admits he hated Attolia, misses a cooking pot, and tells a story in which women are trouble.

Chapter 8: Costis displays hidden abilities (making new cooking pots, lifting heavy pots), they get thirsty and ask the wrong miller for a drink, Costis doesn’t win a fight with a dog and falls, and Kamet panics.

Chapter 9: The gods interfere multiple times, Kamet saves Costis from the underworld, Costis is bad at lying and drama and gets the flour plague.

Chapter 10: They meet a greedy, dirty, grumpy fastener/ferryman/cupid, Kamet has an identity crisis and doesn’t hit Costis with a rock, Kamet is much better at lying, and they pay the fastener

WHAT, IF ANYTHING, JUSTIFIES VIOLENCE?

Chapter 7 starts right off with one of the heavier discussions in the book, highlighting a recurring theme throughout the series – when, if ever, is violence the right answer? We consistently see individuals in positions of varying levels of power grappling with this idea, particularly through the eyes and complaints of Gen. I think Eugenides keenly feels the cost of wielding power over the lives of others (echoing the poignant “my dead” from Sophos in aCoK) and this is part of the reason he so strongly resists being king in KoA. 

Now on pp. 183-186 we have an on-the-ground perspective of one of those thankless soldiers who is doing the work of kingdoms and paying the price of the decisions of kings. I felt this discussion carries additional weight because of previous events and statements in the series. 

How does Costis’ approach to dealing with confrontation differ from other characters in the series?

 What does this discussion add to the overall perspective and opinion on violence and the choices of kings/queens throughout the series? 

Is violence ever justified? 

SHORTSIGHTEDNESS 

Throughout this reread, the overall theme of Kamet’s shortsightedness probably stood out the most. He is consistently shown to be mentally as well as physically shortsighted in the way he views Costis, Attolia, the Medes, himself, and Nahuseresh. 

He’s obsessed with keeping the truth of Nahuseresh’s poisoning from Costis and feels increasing guilt at doing so (“I wished more every day that I didn’t have to lie to him” p. 186) but continues to view Costis and his king’s actions through the lens of his own Medean upbringing and the way the Medes would treat an escaped/traitorous slave. He doesn’t consider that Costis might react differently, or that there may be goals and schemes that are born from concerns beyond his own personal viewpoint of events. 

Kamet’s views Attolia as a backward, stinking cesspit, in part due to his adoption of his Medean masters’ viewpoint, but also because he found the skills he was most proud of were not as highly valued there, once again failing to see beyond his own point of view. 

Through these chapters, Costis seems to be coming into focus for Kamet as he moves past seeing Costis for all that he’s not and is finally able to start recognizing Costis for what he is. 

How does Kamet come to see Costis as an individual with a past and a name, as a person with a future, and as a friend in these chapters?

THE GODS INTERFERE

Ennikar and Immakuk make increasing visits to nudge Costis and Kamet toward each other and toward freedom. 

- Ennikar comes to Kamet and metaphysically and then literally nudges him back toward Costis. 

     o “You’re certain he’s dead?” and “Sometimes we mistake these things” (p. 231,   233)

     o “Someone bumped against me in the crowd…and then I began to retrace my steps to the well.”  (p. 234)

- Costis sees both Ennikar and Immakuk 

     o “’Ennikar!’ he said, as if greeting an old friend.” P. 242

     o “The Attolian blinked his eyes to focus on something that wasn’t there and said ‘Immakuk?’.” P. 249[AG1] 

Ennikar and Immakuk visit frequently throughout TaT, and especially so during these three chapters. Why are the gods so active here specifically?

As a semi-related aside, I think it’s interesting to remember Eugenides Attolis’s invitation and promise in KoA: “Will you serve me and my god?... Then come out…knowing you’ll never die of a fall unless the god himself drops you.” And Costis does, in fact, fall. But doesn’t die. Is Eugenides (the god) perhaps more present in this book than we see?

SPECIAL GIFTS

Costis displays some hidden depths and unexpected gifts in these chapters. 

For example, we see him at home in a farm environment and able to tin a pot. MWT has consistently shown she chooses and uses her words with care, so I have a hard time believing she’d fill almost half a chapter just on a process she found interesting. 

What purpose does this story of Costis tinning a pot serve? 

Another unexpected gift on display is insight. This is just my interpretation, but throughout TaT Costis seems surprisingly dialed in to Kamet, and frequently responds to his thoughts rather than his words. Here on p. 262, he wakes up from a near-death sleep and instantly recognizes Kamet is upset and delivers some pithy, profound insight. In the other books, I’ve seen a number of times where Gen responds to what others think rather than what they say. Is this just a result of his training and natural gifts or is this an additional gift for the followers of Eugenides, like patience being a notable characteristic of the followers of Proas in QoA?

Finally, how does Costis immediately recognize Ennikar, considering he says he’s never heard the stories before. 

Are the poems that much more real to him having seen first-hand that the gods are more real than he’d expected? 

Did that experience prime him to be more sensitive to future deific appearances? 

GENERAL DISCUSSION POINTS, PREDICTIONS, AND QUESTIONS

“There was little that frightened the citizens of the empire like the possibility of a slave revolt.” P. 187 

We’ve touched on this a little already, but the fact that this idea shows up at least three times in TaT seems too frequent to be coincidental in one of MWT’s books, and I’m waiting to see if there’s a literary bookend to this in RotT. As much as I love the imagery, I don’t see Ornon handing out pointy sticks to the Medean slaves and inciting an uprising, but I could see stealing the Mede’s sense of security and superiority and the citizens faith in their great nation being a way for a smaller country to win against a vast army – to destabilize them until the empire collapses under its own weight. 

A few notes:

- The Medes fear their slaves

- A powerful Medean slave has defected and dealt a crippling blow to the Medean navy

- Eddis has dabbled in war-time piracy before, and Gen is known for setting boats on fire (I see the TaT boat fire as the work of Immakuk but think this at least hints at the possibility of future sabotage).

- There are rumors of plague running rampant which could possibly be just that – rumors. 

- If Nahuseresh or the heir were actually killed, there could be some lovely internal chaos ripe for another country to step in and resolve (turnabout being fair play after all). 

Finally, will we see a return of the fastener? Kamet says “Be my friend, Godekker...and as Shesmegah is my witness, I will repay you someday.” (p. 254) and chapter 10 ends with “Maybe he’ll help some other runaway.” (p. 269). Is this just a nod to Rosemary Sutcliffe and the underground movement for escaping in “The Silver Branch” or will we see Godekker again?

Thanks for joining, and I look forward to any and all thoughts and counter-thoughts.  Next week we will conclude our reread with chapters 11-13 + Envoy (p. 270-337) with shadowgirlvg hosting.  

Comments

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

Ah, the name. It was such an interesting authorial choice to not mention Costis’s name until near the end of the book. At first, it seemed like a little tease to me. Is “the Attolian,” or is he not, Costis? Kamet chose not to call him anything, and not to acknowledge him as an equal--not his master, not his friend, but considered him inferior because he was Attolian and a soldier. And, it was cool how Kamet's mindset change happened so slowly and gradually. In each of the books, the world of the characters (and their views of themselves and others) slowly shifts and that's something I find very satisfying in a book. The characters change and grow in realistic ways.

Honestly, I’m not clear on why Immakuk and Ennikar involve themselves so closely in the events in the book. It seems like they really want Costis and Kamet to not only get to Attolia but become strong friends along the way. And I’m not sure how they relate to the Eddisian gods, or Old Gods as Gen calls them, I believe. I hope we find some of this out in the next book, but I’m fine if we don’t. Mortals aren’t meant to understand them, as we learned at the end of QoA. Huh, do you suppose Costis recognized Immakuk and Ennikar because he'd seen them in dreams, the way Helen, Gen, and Sophos dreamed about Moira and the library?

I love the part about Costis tinning the pot. I think it’s my favorite scene in the whole book. We learn so much about him! He’s handsome and attractive (the ladies are watching him), he sings and swears. He can do things beyond what we’ve seen him do before and I just found that whole part delightful.

Another couple of reasons the Medes would fear a slave revolt. A violent revolt could kill a lot of Mede slaveowners. I’m thinking French Revolution here. If there were more slaves than there were owners, things could go very badly for the owners if a well-planned revolt took place. Plus, the Mede economy probably depended on its slave labor. I’m thinking American Confederacy here. The wealthy plantation owners lost their “free” labor and it had a profound effect on the economy of the south. And African slaves were used mostly as unskilled labor. If the Medes lost their slaves, highly trained people like Kamet would have to be paid and go work for whomever would pay them the most.

I have to go back and read the “Pay the Fastener” part again, I feel like this is one of those parts of the book I don’t understand as well as I’d like.

[whataliethatwas.livejournal.com]

Names: I knew Costis was going to have an adventure of his own so I definitely saw this as an authorial tease at first. Kamet's blunt statements to and about Costis initially made it pretty obvious he just didn't care verbally or mentally what Costis' name was, but it wasn't until this latest reread that I saw how it was so important in being the capstone in their progression from Senabid/master to Immakuk/Ennikar.

"Huh, do you suppose Costis recognized Immakuk and Ennikar because he'd seen them in dreams, the way Helen, Gen, and Sophos dreamed about Moira and the library?"

Well, there is the fact that in this scenario the "what's your excuse" for seeing Gods would be in a drunk-like state with a severe fever. He sure seems to be instantly fascinated with the story and have a good handle on Immakuk and Innakar even before he views Kamet as more than someone to pity and rescue out of loyalty to his king so I wouldn't be really surprised if a short story showed us this to be the case.

Tinning the pot: it was fun to get yet a third perspective on Costis - his own in KoA, Kamet's in TaT, and now this brief outsiders glance where quite a lot is revealed about Costis in such a brief period that hasn't been brought to the forefront by our other narrators. That's a neat point and goes a long way toward answering my own question about the whys of the story.

The French Revolution is definitely one of the examples that's come to mind as I've thought about the whole Medes fear their slaves issue. It is interesting that Kamet has this viewpoint that he'd have to go live on a corner and eke out an existence somewhere. And while that's true and has happened historically for exiled scholars, he also is immensely valuble and well-paid so I have to wonder if this isn't another missing the big picture moment for Kamet and he would have been snapped up by another power if Attolia didn't get him first.