Attolia's Age Theory

[emerald-happy.livejournal.com]

I can't work out Attolia's age exactly, but I can post my working here. It might be useful when we get more information in future books. Thanks to immortalbookwrmfor patient listening and adding her own ideas for 2).  

1) Based on the quote: "He needed a nursery, not a bride, Attolia thought bitterly, though she herself had been engaged and married even younger." 

I've already worked out that Gen is 18 at the end of QoA when Attolia makes this observation. Attolia becomes queen and gets married in the same year. 

x=Attolia's marriage age/age she became queen.
y=Attolia's age at the end of QoA

x<18 because Attolia was married younger than Gen is in QoA (see quote). Thus the maximum age Attolia became queen at is 17 years. 

y=7 years+a few years Attolia has ruled more than Eddis+x
y>7+x

Gen is 15 in The Thief so I'm guessing, that is the coming of age time, if not younger. Assuming Attolia got engaged at 15 to be married at 16, her age would be at least 24 years old in QoA because she has ruled at least 8 years, probably a few more. So their age difference is 6 years. It fits because, as Tal pointed out, Eddis is implied to be a few years older than Gen and a few years younger than Attolia. (Attolia was sent away to live with her fiance's family for the year up to her marriage.)

2) Cute scene: Gen is older than 6 when he watches Attolia dance from the orange trees. Thus 7 is the youngest he can be. This would make Attolia at least 13 at that time. However, Attolia can be no older than 14-15, her engagement age, making Gen more likely to be 8-9 years old. 

Comments

[jade-sabre-301.livejournal.com]

*applauds*

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

Wait, though, this has always confused me -- do we know that Attolia was not yet Queen when she danced in the garden? My first reading of that scene was that she was already Queen, in her late teens maybe, and Gen was 12-14, old enough to really fall in some sort of love (I think of the "Six?" remark as Attolia trying to be insulting, not as her actually making a good guess at his age then). I know most people here seem to believe that Gen was quite, quite young at the time, but I like my initial estimate. Is there some evidence that she was not yet Queen when she danced in the garden? Enlighten me.

[emerald-happy.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that is one hole in the 2). Attolia could be a minor princess or queen. Thanks Philia. However, it is known that Gen's grandfather is alive, so it would have to be in the early years of Attolia's reign.

Attolia says, referring to Gen: "I met his grandfather once, many years ago. He told me a thief's greatest asset, like a queen's, was his mind." This was when Attolia "wasn't even a princess of any particular importance." This implies that Gen's visit with his grandfather, if the same one when his grandfather met the queen, was when Gen was quite young.

Though it still could be a later visit when Gen sees Attolia dancing.

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

Didn't Gen's grandfather die shortly before The Thief? I was thinking one year before, but I may have that completely wrong. For some reason I just pictured this taking place when Gen was adolescent.

[jade-sabre-301.livejournal.com]

...

*stares hopelessly at the hole Philia has blown in the argument*

I never thought of her as being queen when she danced in the garden. I mean, I don't really have anything to support that, except as queen would she be able to escape to the garden to dance?

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

Attolia escaping into the garden for a moment of freedom, just as Gen does in KoA. Maybe, maybe not.
Sorry, I wasn't really trying to blow holes in arguments. I just always interpreted that exchange between Attolia and Gen as being about the subtext -- she's dismissing him as a mere "boy," and his smile when he says, "Older than that," is because he was in fact older enough than that to sincerely fall in love with her. He's trying to show her that he's serious and she's trying to find reasons why he isn't.
That is entirely my own interpretation, though -- y'all may well be right that he really was a child, etc. I don't think the text is decisive on this.

[(Anonymous)]

I have no idea when his grandfather died, except it was after Gen was 10 when his mother died. "He knew I was fascinated by her" says Gen. p281, UK version of QoA, referring to his grandfather. "I've watched her for years, you know. All those times when you didn't know where I'd went, mostly it was to Attolia." says Gen to Eddis.

So I guess it's just up to opinion.

[emerald-happy.livejournal.com]

That was me. Forgot to log in.

[emerald-happy.livejournal.com]

"except as queen would she be able to escape to the garden to dance" Yes, she would have her guard! She has always relied on her guard! This is why I thought she was a princess at the time. We asked about Attolia's mother in the letter sent to her. Look to Megan's answer to that question. It says Attolia was ignored until her brother died.

As for Attolia's age, another clue: "caught in an abrupt adolescence, she was too tall and ungraceful" p171, UK version of QoA.

[emerald-happy.livejournal.com]

No, the text isn't decisive on that, you're right. That would explain the calf love comment and why she ends up arguing cruelly, "A good thing I cut off your hand...". She wants to dismiss him as a boy so much she resorts to this comment.

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

Ahem, some of us never got to see the letter and the answers...

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

"Too tall and ungraceful," but Gen has never seen anything more beautiful. Either he sees beyond what others see, or she's already over the awkward stage when he sees her dancing...

[emerald-happy.livejournal.com]

What I mean is: it could be initial fascination for her that Gen is feeling in the orange trees scene, and then later it turns into love. Or the orange trees scene could be the turning point when that fascination turns into love, but Gen doesn't recognise the feeling. Oh the possibilities!

[emerald-happy.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry. I'll get Queen Ro, the keeper of the transcripts, to send them to you.

[jade-sabre-301.livejournal.com]

or it's before the awkward stage. I mean, I always imagined her around 14-15 at the time of her engagement, and so it she was about 13 when she danced, maybe her growth spurt hadn't quite kicked in?

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

AAAHHHH! Variables! *flees*

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

Yes, that would work, too. I can't explain why it has just always struck me the other way.

[(Anonymous)]

Also, some awkward, gawky people look more graceful when they are dancing than when they're being taunted by their father's concubines and plotting political murders (had Attolia known she was going to be married off-to ensure a peaceful end to her father's reign-when she danced under the orange trees? All I remember is that she was lonely and Eugenides had never seen anything so beautiful or so sad.).

~Feir Dearig

[peggy-2.livejournal.com]

Beautiful in the dance, and sad (to Gen) because she had no real friends to dance so beautifully with, only imaginary ones.

I pictured Gen to be about 9 - prior to adolescence.

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

I like this theory, philia. I always thought the queen's answer of "six" was sarcasm, and what you say makes sense.

[jade-sabre-301.livejournal.com]

I agree with the sarcasm, but I don't think he was much older--maybe around ten.

noooo!!!

[dgfduck.livejournal.com]

it must be a mistake! Turner just wasn't writing carefully! Gen was NOT 15 in The Thief! I dont want it...

Re: noooo!!!

[emerald-happy.livejournal.com]

Don't worry about it. Megan likes us to see Gen however old we want to, though she said their ages would become more fixed in later books. Out of curiousity: how old did you picture Gen to be in The Thief?

Re: noooo!!!

[dgfduck.livejournal.com]

Well when I first read it, I thought it was Gen on the cover. And considering that he hung around WINE shops and had the guts to steal something from the king, I imagnined him around 25-30, atleast. Cause Usually in books I like to ignore the authors description and put in my own version.
When I saw the Queen of Attolia cover, I mixed that version of Gen with the guy on The Thief and have my own 30-40 year old Gen.
My version also has the slightest beard which I kinda saw on the 'Queen cover.

Re: noooo!!!

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

Ah, questionable cover art strikes again!

[nihilistic2.livejournal.com]

It all makes me think of the Weird Al song that was written about the Star Wars Phantom Menance movie:

"Did you see him hitting on the Queen, though he's just nine and she's fourteen?"

[emerald-happy.livejournal.com]

Yes! I was also reminded of this! Someone should write some alternative lyrics for QoA and KoA.

[nutty-scribbler.livejournal.com]

I can live with her being six years older.

Haha... I always imagine Gen to be trapped in either the age of 6 or 60. (i made a similar comment about a friend once that he is either 17 or 70.)

RE: Re: noooo!!!

[chicleeblair.livejournal.com]

sorry if this is way too old to reply to. i’m reading old QoA posts in preparation for book six and it’s just, in a semi-Grecian world, I wouldn’t consider 14 to be too young to hang out at wineshops and Gen is constantly described as a boy.

I read him as 11/12 at first because of it being a newbury, but then QoA helped adjust my thinking.