The Big Fight

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

Okay, I can't seem to stop writing long replies in defense of Attolia lately, so I'm just going to go with it.

I don't know if this has been brought up before, but I was thinking about the Big Fight between Gen and Attolia in KoA, when she slaps him.  The dynamics are so great.  She's furious with him.  Why?  Because he asked her to pardon Teleus (he used the chant, which was kind of despicable, but he didn't have much choice).  Why doesn't she want Teleus pardoned?  Because he failed to protect Gen, and Gen almost died.  Her anger is all about her fear of losing him.

Comments

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

That's why she was so angry when Costis hit Gen, too. She probably hated how it reflected the guards' lack of respect for the king. But her comment that "men's necks have been broken by a blow" shows that same fear of losing him.

Man, Philia, I'm not getting much work done today. :)

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

Ha ha! Me either!

[jade-sabre-301.livejournal.com]

I'm doing my careful reread of KoA right now, and I was thinking how much I loved that scene too. Because she just slaps him and they're all like "no man could get slapped by his wife and still be called a man," but in reality I'm sure every single one of those men had been slapped at some point.

and because she slapped him for all the reasons you mentioned.

and because...they make up afterwards ("Ouch!" "Well damnit Indy, where doesn't it hurt?").

because everyone wants to slap Gen, at least once.

[(Anonymous)]

oh yes, even readers want to get a hold of Gen at some times...but they also love him too much to hurt him ^.^ lol I am one of them for sure {I get very drawn in to these books...it's hard not to ^.^;;}

[(Anonymous)]

I agree, Irene really does love Eugenides very much. She just doesn't show it as most people would show love.

[ceecee44.livejournal.com]

I agree that the heart of Irene's anger came from the fear of losing Gen. She shows how much she cares about him because she is willing to kill one of her best and most loyal subjects for his sake. Does anyone know how much time passes from the slap to the make-up?

I also agree that using the chant to bring back up old mistakes could have was extra mean.

[estarria.livejournal.com]

If I'm reading the book right, I think they made up the 2nd day after the fight. (As in, if they fought on Tuesday, they made up on Thursday evening.)

[ballerina-222.livejournal.com]

When he used the chant, I was so mad at him. I was at school and said, "Oh! That is SO mean!" and all my friends looked at me and started pestering my with questions.

[ballerina-222.livejournal.com]

oops, i meant me instead of my.

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

But that was the only thing he could be absolutely sure that Attolia would listen to, and she knew the message came from him. Gen knew how much carrying out Teleus's death would hurt Irene. She might find it hard to live with herself afterwards. He saved Teleus and the other soldiers, but saved Irene from herself, too.

[crazyviolin.livejournal.com]

Ok, so they obviously have a lot of love between them. But she's still not a very nice person. And if Gen didn't mind, there was no reason for her to mind either. Otherwise she's verging on insane.

I'm fighting a losing battle here aren't I?

Well, fine then. Irene's great. She should have a whole book written just about her. (Actually, her history would be quite interesting).

*goes off in a mood*

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

Hmm, well, neither one of them is a very nice person, really. Check out the "adjectives" post -- has anyone mentioned "nice"? Gen "minded" plenty about not being adequately protected -- but once again he knew he was mostly to blame himself. Also he was able to keep a cooler head about how much they needed Teleus.
Plus, you know, Gen's had a lot more love lavished on him in his life, so he's better at understanding all that stuff. I imagine after Irene slapped him, he felt horrible, but he knew, deep down, that it was all because she loved him and she would get over it. Whereas if you look at her reactions (meeting on the stairs, when he jumps a mile and she backs away, doing that heron-in-a-tree number when they made up) it seems clear that she's utterly new to the concept of "making up" and she probably has a moment of "oh no, it was too good to last, it's all over" every time they quarrel. Hopefully she'll get over this, because she'll need to!
"Verging on insane" -- well, the books actually say this, don't they? It's her established pattern to be ruthless and tyrannical, and it's not easy to break a pattern.

[emerald-happy.livejournal.com]

Page 288: Gen says to Relius "You and Teleus are among the few she still trusts enough to love, and you say yes, she should have you tortured and killed."

Yeah, she fears losing Gen. I think she also feels betrayed by Teleus. Relius taught her to trust no one but I don't think she realised until now, just how much she has trusted Teleus and Relius.

[crazyviolin.livejournal.com]

You've got a good point there, Philia. But, you know, I always wondered at that part in KoA when Irene and Gen discuss whether Gen is kind or not. And I never really knew what they established in the end. I can't find my copy at the moment so I'm not sure where it is. In Microsoft Word's thesaurus, kind is a synonym for nice, but the antomyms are unpleasant, nasty, improper and unattractive. I wouldn't say Gen was really any of those either so he isn't not nice.

Perhaps honourable is the right word.

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

I love it when they talk about whether Gen is kind! Because it echoes back to his dig at her in "Thief." I think he's not unkind, if you see what I mean -- there's not a lot of malice in him, and he basically is a good person. But he's really NOT especially kind, and I think it's very liberating for Irene to realize that -- kind of washes away the remaining sting of that long-ago remark.

He's not kind, because he's very self-centered, lies to everyone, and doesn't tell even his wife what he's really up to. Nor does he take proper care of himself, which is rather unkind to his wife. And he makes snarky remarks.

[crazyviolin.livejournal.com]

That made me laugh. Don't you just love Gen! He's fantastic!!

[emerald-happy.livejournal.com]

Amen to that

[idiosyncreant.livejournal.com]

Also, Irene does spend a lot of time feeling bad about everything she did to him. They're still honeymooners, everything is fresh, and every reference to the hand is a slap in the face to Irene, in a way.
That actually might be the first time [post-marriage] she's too angry with him to control herself; the fact that they can make up--that he probably initiates it--is a huge step toward healing the huge hurt there. And think of what she thought about it afterward.
"I hit him. I hurt him again." Yikes.
I bet it was a step in the right direction. Irene showing anger shows she's melting from IceQueen. Gen's one of the few who can get her to be real and human, and now she loves him she's probably more afraid of her anger, that he provokes. They have to work it out.

Watch me go on and on...but I have a lot of ideas about this! Fun discussion, Philia...

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

"I hit him. I hurt him again."

Yes, I thought about that, too. In QoA, Gen says, "Please don't hurt me anymore," and I like to think that Attolia decided then that she would never hurt him again. But she does, and I think she regrets it so much each time.

That's why I think she wouldn't have used the knives when he kidnapped her. Hm, but she did slap him later to shut him up...

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I can even imagine one of those conversations-we-never-hear, sometime after the end of QoA, where Attolia says to him, "I'm afraid of hurting you again," and Gen says, "You will hurt me, and I'll hurt you, and we'll go on loving each other, and we'll forget what we quarreled about[prettify the dialogue here in your own imagination]." I think he's used to this sort of fighting-then-over-it dynamic, but she isn't.

[idiosyncreant.livejournal.com]

Good point. There is dysfunction meeting functional, here. Gen may be a nutcase (all due affection implied) but he loves his father, misses his mother and grandfather because they were good to him, and even his cousins...well, they helped him, become the sneakster he is.
Irene, no such luck.
Poor Gen. Marrying dysfunctional people is very hard on anyone. May he be blessed in his endeavors...and have a good stash of ossil berries somewhere nearby.