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queensthiefHi everyone
I was re-reading King of Attolia this weekend (and enjoying all of the discussions on the listserv) and had a couple of questions.
I couldn't find the word "granched" in the dictionary or on wiki (Gen threatens to have some attendants granched in KofA when they want him to stop climbing on the roof of the palace). I just had to define it for someone at work after telling them (jokingly) that I would him granched if he didn't turn in something to me by noon. I used to threaten to march him over to the zoo and feed them to the yak but this has since proved to be a hollow threat. Does anyone know where it's from? Is it French? We spent a fair amount of time this morning trying to figure out where it came from. He asked me where I heard it and I told him I read it somewhere...
Also, in my re-read, I am trying to figure out how much Ornon knew of Gen's plans for acting like a buffoon up front. Attolia seems to know what is going on but Ornon seems to be pretty nervous for a while that Gen is actually failing and there is that great scene where he's trying to glare at Gen at dinner and he wonders if The Thief is gone forever. What do people think?
Sam
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Date: 9/4/07 03:50 pm (UTC)I got the impression that Ornon knew of Gen's plans, but thought that they were a bad idea. I think that he felt he was a little responsible - he mentions somewhere that he'd told Gen he couldn't lose his temper and had looked forward to seeing what happened. I don't think he ever thought that Gen had actually become the person he was pretending to be...but I'm not sure. *needs to re-read*
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Date: 9/4/07 04:10 pm (UTC)Actually, I wish I hadn't thought of that, as I'm about to prepare a casserole for our tea, and I feel a bit squicky!
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Date: 9/4/07 04:46 pm (UTC)Granch v. (obsolete, rare) [Onomatop{oe}ic; cf. grind, cranch.]
a. intr. Of the teeth: To gnash. b. trans. (see quot. 1886).
1736 AINSWORTH Lat. Dict., Mand{umac}cus,..a bugbear, or hobgoblin..with wide jaws and great teeth granching, shown at plays. 1886 CUNLIFFE Rochdale-with-Rossendale Gloss., Granch, to crunch between the teeth with noise.
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Date: 9/4/07 05:07 pm (UTC)But isn't it a lovely word? Granch.
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Date: 9/4/07 05:27 pm (UTC)Also, I've now got, "Fee Fi Fo Fum, I smell the blood of an Englishman. Be he alive or be he dead, I'll grind his bones to make my bread!" running through my head.
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Date: 9/5/07 04:51 pm (UTC)"What's worse than BOOM?"
"Splat. Crunch. Grind. Chew."
And now, granch, apparently.
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Date: 9/5/07 08:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 9/4/07 04:46 pm (UTC)I guess my impression of Ornon's reaction was not that he thought Gen was actually a buffoon, but that he thought Gen's behavior, and whatever plan he was cooking up, was not going to work now that he was King. I suppose he thought that Gen was demonstrating the worst (most unKinglike) parts of his Thief identity -- sneaking around, being annoying, pretending to be what he wasn't -- while having apparently lost the best parts, like the ability to silence idiots who make stupid remarks to him. I agree with Ro that he felt somewhat responsible.
Of course, Ornon is partly right here, and so is Attolia. Gen DOES need to step up and act like the King, and while he accomplishes a lot by being underhanded, he also causes problems. It's Costis who finally gives him the shove to reveal himself in the swordfight -- otherwise one wonders how long he might have gone on acting like an idiot.
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Date: 9/4/07 09:17 pm (UTC)I think the problem is that Ornon, like Attolia, wants Gen to step up and be KING. The former Thief had the qualities of a great king, if only he would step out and use them rather than pretending to be something he's not.
And while I personally love it when Gen puts on a different persona that fools others, I do kind of agree with Ornon and Attolia that Gen needed to be truly a KING.
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Date: 9/4/07 10:08 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 9/4/07 04:49 pm (UTC)I don't have my copy for King of Attolia, but are you sure it wasn't "ganch"? Because that really is torture, to the tune of "to impale (a person) upon sharp hooks or stakes as a mode of execution." Sounds like the technical term for Attolia's favourite punishment, to me. Yes, Sam, it is from the French - apparently there's a verb "gancher" which probably means "to drop."
Definitely a more gruesome threat than feeding someone to a yak.
I think.
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Date: 9/4/07 06:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 9/4/07 06:51 pm (UTC)Hey, it might not me MWT's typo! Copyeditors, remember? [...JADE...]
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Date: 9/5/07 02:58 pm (UTC)Typots
Date: 9/6/07 09:30 pm (UTC)I am an idiot. It is a typo for ganche. srowan is right. i've just gone back to check my oldest easily accessible draft and it is definitely my typo, not a copy editor's. i came across the word in my research, but didn't make a note of the source (bad, very bad) and have never been able to rediscover where i read it. it is just possible that the corruption to "granche" was actually in my source document, but i think that i probably just misremembered.
i've been trying to find the source of the word for years now. ever since a japanese translator queried it. i knew if i just waited long enough, sounis would find it for me. thanks guys! you're the best!
megan
Followed shortly by this one titled "idiot twice over."
it was traboule who found the definition of ganche. srowan was quoting. megan
Don't you agree this occasion calls for a new icon? Huge thanks go to
Re: Typots
Date: 9/6/07 09:49 pm (UTC)also, I love how we're being regarded as menial word slaves.
:-)
Re: Typots
Date: 9/6/07 11:00 pm (UTC)Re: Typots
Date: 9/6/07 11:21 pm (UTC)Perhaps it was poetic license of the subconscious mind, because it reads better as "granched".
What a great icon!
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Date: 9/4/07 05:30 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 9/4/07 05:34 pm (UTC)The passage is:
'Alan Garner retells twenty traditional stories from England and Wales in "A Bag of Moonshine." Here children will make the acquaintance of Jack My Lad, who outwits a witch three times and reappears in "Harry-cap and the Three Brothers," in which Jack and his brothers go off to seek their fortunes. Several stories feature familiar plots in new settings, like "Johnny Whopstraw and the Hare," a version of the old story about not counting your chickens before they're hatched. Zesty language - "granched," "blob-tongue," "wiffle-waffle" - make these fun to read aloud.'
If it is a made-up word, then that's two people who've made up the same word. (But I can't see torture being mentioned in a young children's story.) It was about mythological stories though, if that's got anything to do with it which it probably hasn't...
granched
Date: 9/4/07 06:34 pm (UTC)It's granched - I just checked. In the book, it says impaling a person on a stake, which I had assumed my co-worker would find when he looked it up. Interesting about "ganch" or "gancher." They sound very descriptive of what Gen was talking about!
Re: granched
Date: 9/4/07 06:53 pm (UTC)Thanks for bringing this up, it strikes me everytime (I keep an eye out for instances where an author defines the word in context, to learn how to do it smoothly) but I never thought to ask about it here.
Cheers, indeed.
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Date: 9/4/07 08:13 pm (UTC)I think he knows Gen better than anyone in Attolia, so he can read him better than they can, but he seems ignorant that Gen has a new purpose. He's not just hanging around being king. He's establishing himself, of course, but more importantly, he's gunning for Erondites and using his very easily swallowed front for a cover to that.
Ornon knows he's fooling around. He thinks he's lost, though. He doesn't realize Gen's now mature enough to lose face every second before everybody for three months on end if it gets him what he wants.
"I bark like a sheepdog instead."
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