Question about Eddis *Possible Spoilers*

[irenengen4ever.livejournal.com]

 *****This Might Have Spoilers.  It Is just my opinion on these events. I have a question about how a certain phrase can work in.*****

This is kind of a question about the next book, mixed with a ton of speculation.  Say that Sophos is alive, and say he comes back.  He is the heir of Sounis.  Then, say he marries Eddis.  Sounis dies, and Sophos is the king of Sounis now (it can be before or after the marriage).  Then, in the future they have a child.  In the short story in the King of Attolia, it said that she would be "The Last Eddis".  If Sophos and Eddis get married, they would most likely merge their kingdoms, right?  So, couldn't happen so that they have a child, and technically Helen was the Last Eddis, because thier new kingdom isn't Eddis, it is a combined Sounis/Eddis.  I know it is pretty much speculation, but I wanted other people's opinion.  Wouldn't the statement from the gods still be true?

Comments

OH boy, speculation!

[tearoha.livejournal.com]

I think this is a plausible way of getting around it. Much as I hate to think of it, my theory is that Eddis as a country will cease to exist after the eruption. Whether or not Helen lives or marries Sophos or has a child, she'll no longer be Eddis.

*ponders*

If Helen is the last Eddis (canon) I see several ways this could go.

A. Eddis changes its rules of succession to descend only through the female line, in which case there would be no more 'Eddis'es, only 'Eddia's. (I don't think this is likely, by the way)

B. The country of Eddis ceases to exist, either through a natural disaster so severe it becomes completely uninhabitable, or through absorption into another country.
1. Eddis is destroyed by eruption and the inhabitants, monarchy and culture are assimilated (RED button!) into Sounis (with or without co-operation of Sophos) and/or Attolia (already an ally of Eddis)
2. Helen marries Sophos, who becomes the Monarch of Sounis, and the two countries merge, thus there is no separate 'Eddis' line after this point.
4. The three countries lose the war with Mede, and all are overrun. It could happen, guys. Eddis held out against the invaders before, and Gen believes they can hold out again, but the country's already weakened by the war with Attolia. Even with Attolia, Eddis and possibly Sounis as allies, it sounds as though the Medes could do whatever they liked if the 'greater powers' looked the other way. Which they might.
Have Sounisians seriously considered before what might happen if this war was lost? I haven't, but it's interesting.

(must... stop... thinking in outline form)

Re: OH boy, speculation!

[irenengen4ever.livejournal.com]

I was trying to resist the idea of the Medes overrunning them. I think that they really need a way for Eddis, Attolia, and Sounis to come together. I wish we had a title to help speculate, "The Heir of Attolia" possibly? I know that is way off topic, but it was part of my theory that I didn't discuss, the more far fetched one. It was that Helen/Sophos have a child and Irene/Gen have a child, then the children get married, thus uniting Eddis, Attolia, and Sounis. The major problem with it was that the time wouldn't fit, the war is about to happen (pretty much is) at the end of KoA, so time for two children to be born and get married is a little too long. I agree, maybe we should start a topic about theories of what would happen IF the war was lost (i.e. where would Gen, Attolia, Helen, etc. go).

Re: OH boy, speculation!

[kaijuu-chan.livejournal.com]

Also, Helen and Gen are first cousins. Their children will be second cousins, too closely related for safe marriage... but inbreeding seems to be a reality here, to the point that Sophos thought Gen and Helen would marry (first cousins! Ew!)

Re: OH boy, speculation!

[kitsune-rains.livejournal.com]

Irene also wonders once why Eddis never married Gen.

Re: OH boy, speculation!

[kitsune-rains.livejournal.com]

Actually, The Magus comments on it too.

Re: OH boy, speculation!

[irenengen4ever.livejournal.com]

I didn't figure that in to my equation. However, if you think about it, this is set in a Byzantine-like world, and it might not have been completely out of the question.

Re: OH boy, speculation!

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

Re the Medes overrunning them: Seems like the gods went to a lot of trouble to keep this from happening.

Re: OH boy, speculation!

[irenengen4ever.livejournal.com]

I agree, but what would happen IF they ever did? Think about it. Obviously, Gen would have to leave or he would be dead, but could Gen make himself hide? Then, if Irene can't get away, would she be forced to marry someone in the Mede Empire? Or would they just kill her? It is an interesting situation.

[kulai-raito.livejournal.com]

woo.. going deep now. Well lets hope that event never happens, I am a simple reader after all. Remember Gen somehow prevails in the end.
If that situation ever happens, I'll be cringing and I might* even be quite upset until mwt makes it better. Gen in exile, I need to think of that again.

[kaijuu-chan.livejournal.com]

I think a book with a Gen-in-exile would somehow (through clever writing and nothing fully revealed until the end) wind up more on top than ever before.

[irenengen4ever.livejournal.com]

I couldn't imagine Gen in exile...maybe that is why he needs to stay humble when he wants to stay out of the public eye. MWT could write that brilliantly, though. Irene is stolen from him and he comes out of no where to save her (and probably Helen, too).

[kitsune-rains.livejournal.com]

Gen wouldn't put up with exile. He would sneak back into the country in disguise and create a rebel group of Eddisians (they are much less used to invaders) and whoever else he could find. They would then overthrow the Medes in less than three days. Blitzkrieg!

To complete the disguise he would have to grow a beard, dye it canary-yellow and oil it into interesting and increasingly imaginative shapes.

Irene would probably be better at blending in, actually. What with her practical wardrobe choices.

[kulai-raito.livejournal.com]

haha. Gen starting a rebellion, thought he likes to do things alone. Ok i'm starting to get weird images in my head now...
I don't even think Irene will let the situation to ever happen as she did retain control of her barons for that long, she and gen will find a way with probably some personal sacrifices.

[thelasteddis.livejournal.com]

DUH.

This is EXACTLY what would happen.

Re: OH boy, speculation!

[tearoha.livejournal.com]

I wonder how omnipotent the gods are, though?

Re: OH boy, speculation!

[kitsune-rains.livejournal.com]

Did the gods try to prevent the Medes from overrunning them? Or was that a result of their catapulting Gen to kingdom?

RE: tearoha

[ornon.livejournal.com]

A. Eddis changes its rules of succession to descend only through the female line, in which case there would be no more 'Eddis'es, only 'Eddia's. (I don't think this is likely, by the way)

I see where you're coming from with this, since Irene is "Attolia" and the king is "Attolis," but I'm not sure the Eddisians use the same naming structure. I mean, Helen is refered to as "Eddis," not "Eddia." I think that even if the crown passed through the females, they would still be called "Eddis."

Re: tearoha

[(Anonymous)]

They do use the same name structure. In the short story at the back of KoA it shows Helen deciding to be called Eddis, as opposed to Eddia (or however it's spelled) when she became queen.

Re: tearoha

[ornon.livejournal.com]

Ah. My copy of KoA doesn't have that.

Re: tearoha

[peggy-2.livejournal.com]

it's in the paperback version. I think we (meaning ) can find an online version of it for you to read though (right, checks? *pokes*)

Re: tearoha

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

I'm on it (http://community.livejournal.com/sounis/199110.html). :P (you have to be a member of the community to read the post.)

[ricardienne.livejournal.com]

I suspect that Gen will end up ruling everything (if Sophos is dead and Eddis goes kablooey in the volcano... or if Eddis marries Sophos or Sounis, all three countries unite against the Mede, and some people get killed in the battle..)

[sgwordy.livejournal.com]

As others have mentioned before, I've always speculated that Eddis will be destroyed through natural disaster and her people incorporated with Sounis. A marriage between Eddis and Sophos lessening the blow of the loss of the country Eddis (and I would agree that the time frame may be too soon for a child from this union) but still resulting in Helen being the last Eddis. I see the 3 (2?) countries united as allies against the Mede rather than Gen as ruler of them all.

However, this seems so neat and tidy, not all twisty and surprising like I have come to expect from MWT. Does anyone else feel this way?

Side note: re the speculation of Gen as ultimate ruler of countries united (rather than allied) and fighting the Medes...what does everyone feel about his ability to lead military campaigns? I know he's clever but I'm not so sure about his ability in full war. I hope Attolia takes care of that part if they do end up ruling all three kingdoms.

[ricardienne.livejournal.com]

Hm. I think Attolia and her generals (and the Magis? And Eddis, and Gen's Father, if the volcano doesn't explode and there is an alliance?) will probably do most of the generaling.

OTOH, there is a lost-cause-ish feel to the whole enterprise of Sounis-Eddis-Attolia holding off against a Mede invasion. And Gen is very good at planning brilliant plans that just might save the day when all is lost.

[puppeteergirl.livejournal.com]

I agree with the Magus that the three countries need to merge to defeat the Mede empire. Just how this will happen is rather hazy.

Also, I imagine that Gen wouldn't "escape" the Medes without taking Attolia with him, and if she were captured while he was away, he wouldn't waste time organizing a rebellion...he would get a few good men and go fetch her right away. ;-)

[thelasteddis.livejournal.com]

I would bet Gen would really ROCK at military campaigns, to be honest. Just not... traditional ones.

Personally, I would bet the countries would be united, not allied. My evidence is the final line of KoA - "He will be an Annux, a king of kings" This seems to imply ruling over, not just allying with, other countries.

[sgwordy.livejournal.com]

I love this! Eddis, Attolia, Sounis/Sophos/Whoever we get from there, MoW etc are all off crafting brilliant military plans and Gen is off stage making sneaky non-traditional plans having nothing to do with the army but still leading to the downfall of the Mede empire.

[inkasrain.livejournal.com]

Slightly off-topic, but I'm curious. Is anyone else not thrilled at the idea of Gen becoming the Annux of all three countries? On a character level, it seems a like this would score a little too high on the "How Awesome Is Gen?" scale. There has to be a limit to what Gen can reasonably accomplish as a human being, and I'm afraid becoming Annux would take him beyond that range of believability or reasonable accomplishment. (For instance, I wasn't crazy about Costis's observation that Gen was "like a god revealed" during his destruction of Erondites, although I know it's really just a simile. Powerful as it was, I don't want Gen to be superhuman; I want him to as naturally awesome as he is, but not to the extent that he is without weakness.)

And on a plot level, I'd hate to see Eddis (and even Sounis) sacrificed to Gen's awesomeness. They are unique and independent countries, and I would not like to see that compromised so that we can further demonstrate that Gen would be an amazing Annux. Not that I think that Gen would go that way unless he absolutely had to, but from an out-of-story level, it's a development I see as a bit unnecessary (with the information we currently have) and I would rather avoid it if possible.

[thelasteddis.livejournal.com]

Personally, I don't think we, as hard-core readers, ever think of Gen as superhuman. To other characters, Gen becomes diety-like, but so does Attolia - and she's very human.

In my opinion, a lot of the skill in mwt's writing is in the way she explains Gen's seeming omnipotence with his underlying human side. Why does Gen almost magically become the King of Attolia? because he was in love with the Queen - he didn't want to be king. How did Gen bring about the fall of Erondites? with HELP. Possibly Hero, but that's up for specualation, and rather dim witted help (as in they didn't know they were helping) from people like Teleus, Costis, and Petrus.

I'd say that the only real omnipotence Gen has is how he can manipulate people. The way he makes them believe one thing, so different from the truth, so that they work towards one goal. The most obvious example of this would be the entire PLOT of KoA - Gen trying to take power over the Attolian court without seeming to wield any. Without being a KING. He ultimatly fails... but the way he deals with people to reach that goal leaves me spellbound every time.

And as to what you said at the end, about not wanting Eddis and Sounis 'sacrificed to Gen's awesomeness'... I think this might be nessesary. Not in order for Gen to be awesome, but completely the opposite... he wouldn't want to rule them, but chance (and a certain few GODS I know) might just throw them into his hands. In my mind, this is the joint death of... I don't even want to say it. Ok. *breaths deeply* Eddis and Sophos. It's the outcome that as a fan, I would despise, and as a plot critic, I would relish.

(Btw... I just saw the Aladdin stage show at Disneyland, and it's really quite good. Struck me several times how Aladdin is similar to Gen, like people have said before - far less complicated, in a FAR inferior plot, of course, but I couldn't help gasping a little when he said, "don't you trust me?")

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

I guess my understanding was that the Annux would unite lesser kings under him. So Eddis and Sounis would not necessarily lose all self-governing. But that's just how it struck me.

[sgwordy.livejournal.com]

inkasrain, you have beautifully put *exactly* my thoughts. I have had the same reservations. I hate the thought of complete hegemony (mentally debating over whether this is the right word to use...). Because of this I have interpreted Annux like philia_fan describes. I sort of think of it like the High King of Britain a la Arthurian times.

tle - thanks for the great insight re Gen being seen as superhuman by other characters. It made me realize that I was very much absorbed into that perspective -and recoiled a bit from it as inkasrain describes- since we see Gen so much that way in KoA. I'll be interested to see which direction mwt goes; will we see more of that human side we know he has or will we continue to see him via others' perspectives.

[thelasteddis.livejournal.com]

YOU'LL NOTICE THIS ALL COMES BACK TO THE IDEA OF AN ARTHUR/QUEEN'S THIEF CROSSOVER.

No matter how many times we talk about other things, we come back to that. I think we will continue to until someone WRITES the darn thing.

Glad to be of service. *bows*

[tiegirl.livejournal.com]

At work someone noted an article that claimed bees were far more intelligent than people give them credit for. So now whenever anyone displays intelligence we all call them a 'smart bee'. All I have to say is:


Jeez, you guys are smart bees!

[sublimelysuki.livejournal.com]

I know I'm coming to this rather late in the day, but I can't help recalling the beginning of the Thief, when the Magus is lecturing his apprentices as they ride through Attolia, and Sophos remarks that it is rather empty from the recent-ish plague. The Magus walks him down the train of thought that Sounis can afford to fill it a bit. When Gen remarks that this would be an invasion, Sophos replies that no one would care, since they aren't using the land. Gen is forced to tell his horse that he thinks the Attolians might.

Anyway, synopsis aside, my point is that Attolia has tons of unused farmland, Eddis is about to 'splode, and Gen juuuust happens to be King of Attolia now, and his patron deities(of Eddis) have maneuvered him into this position rather intentionally. Being the patrons of Eddis, I can't see that they'd let her die so abruptly.