A Question about Eddis and The Thieves

[irenengen4ever.livejournal.com]

 I was rereading the KoA, coming up with some theories (see my post about Eddis and Sophos) and I started to wonder if Eddis had a new Thief.  I don't remember any mention of one, but it has been a traidition.  I can't remember if the subject was discussed in the QoA (my aunt has taken my book) and it made me think about it a lot.  I know that they have to go through training, etc, and it seems like they go through it with the current Thief.  Since Gen sort of went from Thief to King, and didn't have a child (we know he learned from his mother and grandfather) I really started to think.  Does the position of The Thief of Eddis have to be passed down through families?  I'm not sure this is ever discussed, so does anyone have theories?

Comments

[irenengen4ever.livejournal.com]

I agree, I was just discussing it with a friend on the phone, and she said that she thought that it would lapse. I hope we get some glimpse of it in the fourth book. We were spouting off theories left and right, each one getting more impossible as it went. We went into what we didn't want to happen. We tried to pick through the info in the books, but we weren't sure. I wish we had a little more clarification on Eddis. I wish it would have come in passing between Helen and the magus, but realistically, it wouldn't have been exactly the smartest thing, because technically the magus is still part of Sounis, even if he isn't welcomed right now. I just wanted some more opinions on the order of the Thieves of Eddis.

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

The destruction of Hamiathes's gift would probably contribute to the title lapsing.

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Good point.

Who stole the Gift was the original determinate of who would become the Thief. Gen was the first Thief to steal the Gift in hundreds of years which is partially why he was a functioning Thief and not just a holder of the title. The Gift having been destroyed could certainly contribute to the title disappearing.

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Interesting question.

I agree with Gypsymoongate. The title does seem to be have become hereditary over the eons as Irene mentions that the title could pass to one of Eugendies's nephews or nieces.
I don't think there could be a new Thief of Eddis while Eugendies is still alive, because the title is lifelong.

Notice this quote...

"It's a lifelong title. You'd be Queen's Thief if you were bedridden, and you know it." p68 of "Queen of Attolia"

Apparently, a Thief still remains a Thief even if he is unable to function as one; but it's hard to say if becoming king of another country still fits into this category.
Since we know that Helen is to be The Last Eddis (and I am not referring to our fellow sounis member), it seems Eddis will either be destroyed or incorporated into another country possibly making the station dissapear.

I, for one, hope for solid answers to these questions in the coming books.

[thelasteddis.livejournal.com]

I'm glad you brought up that quote. However, I get the feeling that the King of Attolia and the Thief of Eddis cannot coexist in the same person, simply by some gods-ordained rule. Because those gods just love to make people's lives difficult!

I think it had something to do with a thread that ran throughout KoA - for a long time, Attolians called him 'the thief', but starting with Irene, then Philologos, then Costis, and then in a convoluted way the whole Court, they called him 'the king'.

[irenengen4ever.livejournal.com]

This is sort of off-topic, but what if it came down to a choice between Attolia and Eddis? We know the gods want him to be "Attolis", but what if he had to make a choice. If there was something involving uniting the countries, and there was a situation of compromise, how could he choose? I know it would be horrible, and Gen would probably somehow sneak around and find an alternate choice, but it would be difficult. I think, as bad as it sounds, he would choose Attolia. I believe there was a line in KoA between (I think, I don't have my book on hand) Helen and the Magus, where Helen says something like he is the king now. I'm not sure of the actual line. We know he is only the king because he loves Irene. However, he is the king, and he started to use some of his power. He wants to do what is best for Irene, and he will do whatever (I think) it takes. Any thoughts on that?

[tearoha.livejournal.com]

Since I have my copy to hand...

Eddis is speaking to the Magus, about Ornon.

"It has only just dawned on him that if he succeeds, Eugenides will be king of Attolia."..."King," she emphasised, "of Attolia."...That both understood that if Eugenides was King of Attolia, he would have to face difficult and painful decisions that he would make in the best interests of nations, not individuals.'

I find this episode ominous. There's such emphasis placed on the fact that Gen's loyalty is now to another country it convinces me there is going to be future conflict between Eddis and Attolia's interests, and personal loyalties will get trampled right and left.

By the end of KoA Gen has accepted the kingship, with all that entails. So to some extent what Helen feared has now come true. Perhaps Gen's realisation that he'd created this risk of future conflict for himself was part of his reluctance to become King? (As if he needed another reason, poor guy)

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Loyalty to their country will certainly come first for Gen and Helen rather then loyalty to each another, but I think Gen is just far to clever to ever be caught in a situation where he will have to betray his cousin. Helen is pretty smart herself.

Like when Gen kidnapped the Magus. He framed him for a crime, but in the process got him out of the danger. I sort of see that as Gen remaining loyal to Eddis and his queen, but still being loyal to his friendship with the Magus.

[thelasteddis.livejournal.com]

I know this will sound like herosy to a lot of you, and I'm sorry.

I think we might be giving too much clout (except, like, bad clout... I can't think of a better word) to Gen's love for Irene. Yes, it is one of the driving forces in his life, yes, he's probably living for her right now, and yes, I think it's the first reason he became king, but we also have to realize that he has, in some way, always had to make decisions in the best interests of countries. It just happened to be that that used to be easier - Eddis came first, always.

But now he's a king, and I don't think that's entirely because of Irene. To some extent, a marriage was the only way there would be peace, and any way of conquering the Medes. Attolia would have shaky relations with Eddis, Attolia would always be on the brink of war (what with the barons and all), and the Medes would just show up and be all, "hello, nice little peninsula you've got here, I'm sure you wouldn't mind if we took it?"

Attolia needed a stable king. Gen knew that, and he knew that he wanted to be with Irene, and he came up with the obvious solution. Problem is, Gen didn't want to be the kind of king he was supposed to be... he wanted to solve the political situation the way he knew best, through MAD NINJA SKILLZ. The interesting thing about KoA is that the main character, eventually, fails.

So, because my brother's yelling at me to get off the computer, I'll finish up. I think Gen does care about Attolia (country), and that he will do anything to protect it, along with Irene. He also would want to protect Eddis... but I don't know how that will work out.

PLEASE WRITE QUICKLY MWT!

[tiegirl.livejournal.com]

Gods, TLE, girl, you are one smart bee!

[thelasteddis.livejournal.com]

Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

I agree with you, the last Eddis. I think Gen has the intentions of protecting both countries, and is smart enough to do it.

"Mad ninja skillz"

*falls over laughing*

[pigrescuer.livejournal.com]

"hello, nice little peninsula you've got here, I'm sure you wouldn't mind if we took it?"

*sniggers*

Very Nahuseresh.

[alineadrklrdsis.livejournal.com]

I always thought that Gen was still the Thief of Eddis. In KoA Costis remarks that no one thought to question that somebody else called the Thief of Eddis a king. So at that point the Attolians still considered him the Thief. Then there's also that conversation between Eddis and the Magus about the Thieves only swearing loyalty to Eddis itself not its rulers. The Magus at least still considered him the Thief, possibly Eddis too. Good question.

[pigrescuer.livejournal.com]

I would think no new Thief. Apart from all the other reasons everbody above me has given, it's only been a few months!

Also, even if there was somebody suitable, who's going to train them? I think Gen might be the last Thief, as Eddis is the last Eddis.

[in-my-niteshirt.livejournal.com]

Notice that with both positions, his name is also his title. So another way to ask the same question is, 'Is he Eugenides or is he Attolis?' Only his Eddisian friends call him Eugenides anymore. Attolians ought to call him Attolis, right? Any Attolian that calls him the Thief of Eddis is trying to be disrespectful, not accurate.

Seems to me any oath of loyalty he previously took to Eddis will be trumped by whatever oaths of loyalty he must have taken at his coronation. If that were not the case, he'd just be a royal consort or something, not the king.

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

Ah, but the Thief doesn't take an oath.

[sublimelysuki.livejournal.com]

I...saw that Gen has every intention of training himself a successor.

Well, it gets a bit more complicated than that. Eddis is going to 'splodey, and Helen is the last Eddis, so I saw Eddis and Attolia as becoming a single entity. But at the end of KoA Gen asks Costis if he will serve him (Gen) and his god. When Costis accepts, he makes a statement that he will never fall unless the god himself lets him. I took this to mean that Costis is going to have to hake the place of Thief, since Gen is going to be King. Where this fits into the future rescuing of Sophos, and killing of Nauseresh, I'm not positive, but according to Philogos, Gen can't do it because he only has one hand. And, you know, is known. This fit in with why Gen was so concerned with Costis' Medean accent and vocabulary.

That...got long.

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

That's what my sister thinks. That Gen is going to start a tradition of Thieves in Attolia and make Costis the first holder of the title.

When one considers the quotes you just mentioned, it does make sense.

I suppose it's possible that Gen might train a new Thief of Eddis as well, but I could also picture him saying to Helen, "What does that have to do with me? You can find your own Thief."

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Unless, Gen is planning on making Costis a Thief that serves the interests of both countries. That is, if Attolia and Eddis get pushed further into partnership as they battle with the Mede.

P.S.: If I ask very politely, could someone tell me how to edit my comments?
*not computer savy*

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

I think you have to have a paid LJ account in order to edit comments. That's part of the reason I got one--to reduce comment stupidity and regret. :)

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Oh, is that so.

Thank you for your help.

[chocolate-smash.livejournal.com]

But Costis really isn't the right sort of person to be a new thief. He is the rule-following, honurable type of person, and thives really usually arent. There are other ways he could serve Gen and his God.

[ballet2nite.livejournal.com]

I always felt as though Eugenides could do both, like if Eddis needed him, then he would be there, but he wouldn't act against either nation. Kings do get a little time off don't they?