Embrace your inner Sophos!

[thelasteddis.livejournal.com]

It's...... (drumroll, please)

Philosophy time!

My history class has been studying Plato off and on for a while now. He was an interesting guy, with lots of ideas that had a lot to do with history. But it took an offhand comment of evilhistoryteacher’s (who, if I haven’t already told you, isn’t really evil and is actually my favorite teacher – that’s just what I call him online) about Augustus of Rome to make me realize the connections between one of Plato’s ideas and QT.

That idea is the Philosopher King. In his “The Republic”, Plato talks about (among many, many other things), his ideal system of government. It’s very complicated, and involves lots of testing (you think the SAT is bad), but the underlying idea is Sophocracy: rule by the wise.

But what makes a person wise? Plato would probably tell you about the myth of the cave, an extended metaphor for a philosopher’s role in society. Greatly simplified this is it (if you notice a strange similarity to The Matrix, that’s on purpose. The Matrix was strongly based on Plato’s ideas): It starts with prisoners chained in a cave, facing the wall. Behind them are a variety of puppets and a fire, which cast shadows on the cave wall. The prisoners, because they have seen nothing but these shadows, assume that the shadows are real. But then! One of the prisoners is unchained, and sees the puppets and fire and all of that. He goes out of the cave, and sees the grass and flowers; the real world. He is eventually able to look up and see the moon and stars, and last of all the sun.

Each of the objects in the myth of the cave has a counterpart in Plato’s idea of the world. The prisoners are the everyday men and women, about their daily business, giving false importance to the physical world. The shadows are the things we see around us (i.e. a chair, a cat, a mountain). The fire and puppets are personal beliefs and opinions, which cast a subjective light on what we see. The outside world is (believe it or not), math. Algebra, specifically – the abstract forms are objective, and to Plato, absolute truths. The celestial bodies are the basic ideas that make up life, and the sun the ultimate awesome: truth, beauty, and goodness.

Plato believed the purpose of a philosopher was to figuratively leave the cave and see the truth, then attempt to bring it back to the people inside the cave (some people were downright unable to leave – Plato was pessimistic in that way). In most cases the philosopher was unsuccessful, but it was his duty to try. Plato likened himself in his efforts to bring others to the truth to a gadfly, futilely biting a lazy horse to get it to move.

Should the philosopher refuse to share his knowledge, he is as unfit to be called philosopher as any of the poor saps stuck in the cave. This man would live a pleasant life, but a useless one.

“He would either have to throw away his life without doing any good either to himself or others, he holds his peace, and goes his own way. He is like one who, in the storm of dust and sleet with the driving wind hurries along, retires on the shelter of a wall; and seeing the rest of mankind full of wickedness, he is content, if only he can live his own life and be pure from evil and unrighteousness, and depart in peace and good-will, with bright hopes.”

So the duty of the true philosopher is to give up the joys of personal study and growth, and help the common people. Through his trials, he is worthy to rule, and wise enough to do so. Through the circumstances of his life, he has never been temped by wealth or personal power:

“The worthy disciples of philosophy will be but a small remnant: perchance some noble and well-educated person, detained by exile in her service, who in the absence of corrupting influences remains devoted to her; or some lofty soul born in a mean city the politics of which he contemns and neglects….”

It would not be the Philosopher King’s choice to rule – in fact, Plato says the best leader is the one who wishes to lead the least. That sounds familiar…

My suggestion is that QT is moving towards an age of Philosopher Kings. Rulers such as Eugenides and Sophos (he even has the name for it – in Latin, Soph is wisdom, in Archaic, Sophos [“sophos at ere” means wisdom and love – Attolia tells us the meaning of “ere” and “at” is so short it just has to be a conjunction]) are taking power. Both of them have gone through trials to become king (or, at least, Gen has – Sophos has to wait a few more weeks), and neither wants to rule. Both are well-educated, and Sophos has a special interest in philosophy, as I remember.

Thoughts?

Comments

[jade-sabre-301.livejournal.com]

1) "embrace" not "imbrace"

2) i will read this soon--------------
OH GOD YOU ARE PLATOING, AREN'T YOU.

[jade-sabre-301.livejournal.com]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH PLATO

*FLEES*

did you know that by the end of his life he had gone all Pythagorean and stuff I mean come on Plato that's just lame

he even broke up with the Forms I hear it was rough

meanwhile Nietzsche is like "lol that Parmenides guy he was too rigid y'all"

...going to bed now.

[jade-sabre-301.livejournal.com]

I think this theory would be even better if we brought in the idea of sun god and Apollo and seeing the god and getting the calling from the oracle at Delphi just like Gen gets the oracle in Attolia and

and

*weeps*

WHY MEGAN. WHY.

IT IS POSSIBLE YOU ARE TAKING THIS TOO MUCH TO HEART

[bluestalking.livejournal.com]

I DO NOT THINK MEGAN SAID SHE BASED THE WHOLE SERIES ON PLATO.

I think this idea is interesting as a model for what is happening in the series (rather than a source). It's definitely useful to remember that a lot of reading & a lot of history--and a lot of subsequent Total Fictionalization! goes into this world.

It's nice that we can use our world's literature and history to inform how we read the books, but without risk of spoilers--because in the end it's some of that stuff, and mostly Megan. :)

WHAT NO HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE IT IS ~*~REEEEEEEEEAL~*~

[jade-sabre-301.livejournal.com]

Penguin you are like the voice of reason inside my own head. Only like, its echo in the real world. :-D

Re: IT IS POSSIBLE YOU ARE TAKING THIS TOO MUCH TO HEART

[drashizu.livejournal.com]

Yeah, this is definitely not, I think, what Megan Wanted People to Think Of immediately after reading her books. It's possible she wasn't even thinking of this at all. But it's sort of like a validation of the universality of the ideas presented in the series. (Much and wonderfully layered by Fiction, of course.)

[thelasteddis.livejournal.com]

Is there something wrong with Plato? Sure, some of his ideas I don't agree with but why the fleeing?

[jade-sabre-301.livejournal.com]

I had a whole class on him last semester, so it's like "oh great, it's the cave again" mixed with "IS MY PROFESSOR GOING TO TEST ME ON THIS AGAIN I CAN'T HANDLE IT"

...basically it's almost two in the morning, and past little!Jade's bedtime. o.o;

[thelasteddis.livejournal.com]

Oh dear. Bedtime for Jade. *offers teddy bear to ward off the Plato!ghosts*

[elle-winters.livejournal.com]

so it's like "oh great, it's the cave again"

XD

*shudders at the very thought of it*

[thelasteddis.livejournal.com]

"imbrace"? who on earth said.... ohmygod.

That's really embarrassing. Um... edit?

[jade-sabre-301.livejournal.com]

I SAW NOTHING

<3

Not really spoilers, but I don't want to ruin anyone's day, so just in case...MINOR SPOILER WARNING

[drashizu.livejournal.com]

Wow. Yes! Did anyone see the interview with MWT where she's standing by the beach and talking about the kind of adventure she wanted Sophos to have in CofK? (There was a link here (http://community.livejournal.com/sounis/315170.html).) She says that Sophos has the opportunity to walk away from his adventure if he wants to, and that he has to choose instead to make an effort and try, to move his own story along. Sounds like the idea of the philosopher making an effort to spread his knowledge, even though he doesn't have to? The chapters of CofK up on the HarperCollins website, if you've read them, do seem to further support this idea. There is also a line where Sophos confirms the meaning of his own name as "wisdom."

Way to link the QT books with philosophy class! I love hearing about connections like this :) It just proves another way that these books are even deeper and more meaningful than we all thought. And here I was just looking forward to Sophos's fantastic adventure in a few weeks! (5 weeks and 6 days to be exact. Woohoo!)

[ilysia-039.livejournal.com]

Right now, I believe that I love you. It is obscenely early here, so I'll just say:

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

[elle-winters.livejournal.com]

he's not really evil? oh and here i was imagining some evil!dark!historyteacher that had a ruler at hand and wouldn't let you use the restroom...

[thelasteddis.livejournal.com]

Oh no, he just assigns a lot of homework. I think I first started calling him that when I hadn't slept over five hours for three days trying to get a paper finished. XD

But as long as you watch the homework load and participate in class, he's great. You learn all sorts of interesting stuff.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

Sophos (and Sophia) is wisdom in Greek (and philosopher = lover of wisdom); Latin for wisdom is sapientia. :-) I think Latin or Italian is the language of the peninsula mentioned in the books, and that their Italy is at a similar stage to our Renaissance. Greek hasn't changed that much over the centuries; my father used to speak Ancient Greek to modern ones and be understood. :-)

[tiegirl.livejournal.com]

Well, now, that is an interesting statement to make! Your father spoke Ancient Greek? To modern ones? Huh. *ponders possible circumstances*

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

:-) He was a classics scholar and his languages were (besides English), Hebrew, Latin, and Greek. He taught me Latin and I loved it. When he died, my mother was puzzled about all the Greeks who turned up to his funeral. It turned out he used to go down to the Greek Orthodox church (pretty much next door) on a Sunday to chat with them--and, amazingly, was understood!

I should add that English changes a lot more rapidly than other languages. I can read Dante in the original because it's so close to present-day Italian, but I wouldn't have a chance in hell of understanding Chaucer. I imagine Greek's been that stable too.

[tiegirl.livejournal.com]

I think your Dad stole my Dad's life! Mine started out working on an advanced degree in Medieval History but then joined the Army before WWII. He thought I would enjoy studying Greek in college and I wanted to, but was told by my adviser that I wouldn't have time. :( Now of course I wish I had taken the time.

Your Dad sound wonderful.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

That's a pity. How about a night class? That's a nice way to pick up the basics of a language, and I found Greek a lot easier than Russian. You could regard it as part of Queen's Thief research!

I never learned Greek from my father, but picked some up when I went over there. He taught me Latin when I was 11--a year's worth over a month--because I was going to a new school where I needed it to get into the top class. Sadly he never got to Europe, but I thought of him a lot when I travelled around there after uni, especially when I was in Rome.

[thelasteddis.livejournal.com]

There are a lot of books you can learn Greek from - it's the language that's the hard part, the alphabet is pretty easy to get a grasp on.

(English student butting in.... ;p)

[hazelwillow.livejournal.com]

Wow, that is SO cool that your dad's ancient Greek could be understood!!

(In terms of English, Chaucer's actually fairly understandable, because it's only middle english. Something like Beowulf, though, old English, is...yeah, pretty much another language. ;p

Re: (English student butting in.... ;p)

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

I can read some words in Chaucer, but it's like Swedish or Danish to me: I can make some guesses based on English and German, but I can't really read it. Yet Dante is perfectly clear in Italian--and it's the first work of literature in that language.

I'm not sure how much Greek has changed. I'm interested to see that MWT has included a lot of classic Greek names in the books, plus references to people like Archimedes and Galen (who must have been named after the original one, like Eugenides). :-)

[tiegirl.livejournal.com]

TLE, I believe I should have gone to your school. That is all.

[agh-4.livejournal.com]

Oh, thank you, TLE. That's deep and lovely.
It reminded me of how cool it was to read Sophie's World (sorry, completely different book...), and how awesome philosophy is. (I mean, who doesn't love Sophos?)

The shadows thing makes me think of how, when the gods turn up, everything goes all insignificant, if you know what I mean. What is taken as real becomes extremely unimportant compared to them. So life is just a shadow of what really matters.

And that can be scary! So can responsibility, but I agree that that makes Gen a better king.