Question about the attendants

[beth-shulman.livejournal.com]

Rather rambling and unorganized thoughts:

• In KoA, I got the impression that Gen's attendants thought that he was weak and unqualified but that they reversed their opinion when Gen brought down Erondites.
• They try to protect the king when he's angry about Nahuseresh, so that Attolia won't hear that he was bitter about his missing hand.
• Didn't everyone who disbelieved Costis about Gen say that he sounded like the king's attendants, and no one believed them either?

I just reread ACoK, and what happened with Gen and his attendants?

• They thought Gen considered them less than his boots? Why? I thought they'd proven themselves once they weren't under Sejanus's sway.
• Ion thought he would be dismissed for one too many mistakes - does Gen think they're incompetent? Wouldn't he know better? Or are they really incompetent?
• He thinks they're "overelegant lapdogs", but why would he think that Sophos wouldn't want to hire one of them? Again, are they really incompetent?

Is this something that doesn't have much information to support a case either way? I'm thinking that maybe I'm just confused because the point of view is different in ACoK, because Sophos is more distant from the Attolian court than the Attolian king. But it's something that's been bothering me over the weekend, so I thought I'd ask. Thoughts?

Also: I just remembered - there's still sand in his food in ACoK? I thought that was taken care of in KoA! What happened?

Comments

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Yo, Beth! How's life been treating ya?

I thought the subtle differences when it comes to the "attendant issue" originates from the fact that CoK is told via Sophos, while KoA is told via Costis. Remember, Costis has hung out around Gen's attendants much longer than Sophos and has seen their... for lack of a better term "inner Sejanus". For Sophos, they would be on their best behavior, because well... he's a king.

Another part of it, is that Gen is still fighting being a king, and his new control over his attendants reminds him that he is slowly (but surely) becoming one. They want to follow him, but he really doesn't want them to, yet he knows he needs them to so he... and well... Am I making any sense here? Gosh, Gen you're SCREWED UP! Pull yourself together, dude!

Sandy!

I've still got sand in my food
And I can't shake the thought of you

Ahhemm.

Honestly, considering Mrs. Turner did not elaborate on the Sandy issue, I think its more complicated then some cook who wants Gen to eat dirt. (Okay, I apologize for that. I'm on a sugar high.) I'm hoping to learn more about her in future books.

I've still got sand in my food
And I can't shake the thought of you

Agh! That song is stuck in my head! AND IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT! You associated MY FAVORITE Dido song with QT! HOW CAN I EVER REPAY YOU!?!

[zumie-ashlen.livejournal.com]

I think it definitely has to do with the POV change.

In KOA we get a much fairer glimpse of them because Costis has a better measure of them. Sophos doesn't know them at all in ACOK, however.

Also, I think it needs to be factored in that they may have more faith in Gen than he thinks they do. They just may not be overt enough for him to realize (lollol Gen can be kind of a dismissive dummy sometimes!).

I think they do deeply respect him, but he has a long memory and might think they're just faking it so they won't get in trouble, after seeing what he can do.

[katecoombs.livejournal.com]

Maybe the sand-in-the-food thing just goes to show that although Gen has won over a number of key people in Attolia, it would be unrealistic to expect EVERYONE to stop hating or distrusting him, and therefore, some people on the palace staff are still out to get him in petty ways.

As for Gen's attitude towards the attendants, good point about Sophos' POV. And Gen is not a trusting, confiding person. I think it's more like he whipped his attendants into shape (they were so awful under Sejanus!), but it doesn't occur to him that they might actually LIKE him. He just thinks they're no longer crossing him.

[pico-the-great.livejournal.com]

I think most of the issue you're talking about are caused by the fact that despite the attendants drastically changing their minds about Eugenides because of the Erondites/Sejanus thing, Gen has yet to change (or to show he's changed) his mind about his attendants. He might still view them as lapdogs; he certainly doesn't view them as friends. Whereas, on the attendants' side, they realized "oh, holy shit, this guy knows what he's doing! Perhaps I admire that!" and are rueful that previous behavior took away all chance for them to ever be in Eugenides' good graces.

Because really, it kind of did. They were in a prime position not to be assholes to him, and make him feel less alone. In current internet parlance, they done goofed.

Anyway. What I'm trying to get at is: there has been a change of heart among the attendants, perhaps not complete but certainly sincere. And Eugenides doesn't trust that, because they've spent so long in playing him for a fool that, you know, this could just be another trick. He's also used to being alone, and having to be alone, and sometimes doesn't rely on people even though he could.

Everyone else in Attolia's view on all of this is that the attendants suddenly want desperately to please him - what's that all about? And Sandy's stil doing her thing because, well, she didn't know about Erondites. And Gen still acts out in court. And, to put a cap on it all, no matter how much he might do publicly right, there will still be people whose motivation is "go home already you freakin Eddisian" and will act and think accordingly.


Long answer is long, and possibly subjective. Hope it answers some of your questions!

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

Gen never really believes that people think highly of him -- remember how surprised he was to hear the magus call him a hero to his people? He may be a hero to his attendants, but he wouldn't believe that. It's layers of complexity with the point of view: Sophos sees attendants that are loyal to Gen and want his good opinion. Gen sees attendants who have shaped up but probably (he thinks) don't care about him. He still wishes they'd leave him alone and let him dress himself, I'm sure.

It's surprising that Attolia hasn't put a stop to the sand thing (unless Gen told her to let him handle it, which would explain everything). But hey, maybe it did stop, then started up again. Maybe it's someone new this time, or someone who's just very persistent.

[elvenjaneite.livejournal.com]

I completely agree--Gen still has very little reason to like or trust any of them, so at this point he doesn't. (Hopefully someday, because I do feel sorry for them.

[lylassandra.livejournal.com]

Well, trying to play him for a fool, anyways. =)

[beth-shulman.livejournal.com]

Hey! I'm doing well :) And lol at everything you wrote. I miss Costis :(

And LOL at the Sandy thing. I can't believe Sophos ate it.

[styromgalleries.livejournal.com]

It's surprising that Attolia hasn't put a stop to the sand thing
She doesn't know it's still going on. Remember that passage in CoK where Sophos tries to take some of Gen's food and Gen won't let him because there's sand in it? Then Attolia is glaring their way all suspiciously, so Sophos takes a bite just to ward her off.

BRAINWAVE! I think I know who Sandy is......

[deirdrej.livejournal.com]

Great discussion, everybody! Very illuminating!

And...

Speaking of attendants, do you remember that girl who liked Nahuserfish in QofA? Any chance she could have been demoted to the kitchens? We know from CoK that "Sandy" is somebody Gen knows -- wouldn't she be a good candidate?

One of the many things I can't wait to find out in the next book(s)....

[beth-shulman.livejournal.com]

Costis does have a better measure of them. I hope he's in the next two books; I've discovered that I miss him.

But I've never thought Gen would underestimate the people around him. Be outwardly dismissive, yes - which is what he's doing, maybe?

And elephants have nothing on Gen.*

*I just realized the irony of that statement. Ha!

[beth-shulman.livejournal.com]

it would be unrealistic to expect EVERYONE to stop hating or distrusting him

This is so true. In fact, I remember thinking, in the beginning of ACoK, where Gen rides out with Attolia, that it sounded remarkably similar to the beginning of KoA, where Gen is the newcomer to the court. It's like in KoA, he won over his court, and now he's working on the country. Although you would think that a cook would hear what happens in the palace and come to respect Gen, so maybe he/she has some other, deeper grudge.

And Gen doesn't think people like him, does he?

He probably expects to battle everyone every step of the way.

[beth-shulman.livejournal.com]

I kind of love this comment :)

And the cook will forever be Sandy to me.

[beth-shulman.livejournal.com]

I think Philia's right, though, and that means that it Attolia does know that it's still going on, and she's not happy about it. Maybe it's just happening less frequently, but if Attolia's suspicious, she probably has grounds to be so, or maybe she doesn't like how Gen's handling it. *throws up hands*

[zumie-ashlen.livejournal.com]

I miss Costis like crazy.

I think Gen underestimates that people will care for him--hence his being all snitty towards Sophos in ACOK. He's a very passive-aggressive person with sort of low self-esteem. :D

He can be thicker than a brick wall about feelings sometimes, the poor git. *g*

[styromgalleries.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I think Gen's probably hiding it because 1) He doesn't want to see someone publicly ganched for putting sand in his food, and 2) He still likes to work on his own.

But, you're right. Attolia is one sharp tack. XD She may very well know, but maybe she wants Gen to confide in her. IDK. The two of them still have a long way to go when it comes to trusting each other. I think they would make such an awesome team (and have) if they would rely on each other more.

[beth-shulman.livejournal.com]

He does like to work on his own. Hmmm. I'm just thinking of this now, but remember in QoA, when Gen complained that he couldn't do the kidnap-the-magus, burn-Sounisian-navy mission himself, because he lost his hand?

You would think he saw the merits of team work. Maybe it's his - trump card, or something. He wants to maintain some independence even though he's king, and he's missing a hand.

FOR ALL OF US WHO MISS OUR MAN COSTIS...

[tiegirl.livejournal.com]

Don't forget that one interview with MWT's agent or editor or publisher or whoever, in which said whatever got the whole story narrated to her by our author? And said author explained that KoA got split into two books? What's my point, you ask? Oh. COSTIS IS COMING BACK!!! At least that is the thought that I hold close to my heart of hearts. Whatever that means.

Re: FOR ALL OF US WHO MISS OUR MAN COSTIS...

[beth-shulman.livejournal.com]

What what what? What interview was that?? Yessss.

Re: FOR ALL OF US WHO MISS OUR MAN COSTIS...

[tiegirl.livejournal.com]

Oh, noes! I don't know if I can find it again! I hope it wasn't all a dream!

Re: FOR ALL OF US WHO MISS OUR MAN COSTIS...

[beth-shulman.livejournal.com]

I'm sure it wasn't (I really hope not) - also, I've only been on Sounis for a few months and lurked for about a year, so if it's older than about a year, I definitely wouldn't have seen it. Even if it's not, I may have missed it.

Re: FOR ALL OF US WHO MISS OUR MAN COSTIS...

[tiegirl.livejournal.com]

You know what? I found the blurb I was talking about and it doesn't say anything about KoA being 2 books originally. I think I combined that blurb with actually meeting Ms Turner in Boston. Perhaps Philia can confirm my rotten memory.

[jade-sabre-301.livejournal.com]

I MISSED COSTIS SO MUCH THROUGHOUT ACOK. So much. I--i just love him. A lot.

[beth-shulman.livejournal.com]

Oh gosh your icon! I love it.

And I didn't realize how much I missed Costis until I reread ACoK. He's awesome and I want more of him.

Re: FOR ALL OF US WHO MISS OUR MAN COSTIS...

[drashizu.livejournal.com]

I don't know what blurb you mean, but I saw MWT speak twice in the San Francisco area and she said both times that KoA is two books and we only have the first half right now. The other half was interrupted by Sophos's story. So you are not crazy! And Costis will come back.