Question about the attendants

[beth-shulman.livejournal.com]

Rather rambling and unorganized thoughts:

• In KoA, I got the impression that Gen's attendants thought that he was weak and unqualified but that they reversed their opinion when Gen brought down Erondites.
• They try to protect the king when he's angry about Nahuseresh, so that Attolia won't hear that he was bitter about his missing hand.
• Didn't everyone who disbelieved Costis about Gen say that he sounded like the king's attendants, and no one believed them either?

I just reread ACoK, and what happened with Gen and his attendants?

• They thought Gen considered them less than his boots? Why? I thought they'd proven themselves once they weren't under Sejanus's sway.
• Ion thought he would be dismissed for one too many mistakes - does Gen think they're incompetent? Wouldn't he know better? Or are they really incompetent?
• He thinks they're "overelegant lapdogs", but why would he think that Sophos wouldn't want to hire one of them? Again, are they really incompetent?

Is this something that doesn't have much information to support a case either way? I'm thinking that maybe I'm just confused because the point of view is different in ACoK, because Sophos is more distant from the Attolian court than the Attolian king. But it's something that's been bothering me over the weekend, so I thought I'd ask. Thoughts?

Also: I just remembered - there's still sand in his food in ACoK? I thought that was taken care of in KoA! What happened?

Comments

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Yo, Beth! How's life been treating ya?

I thought the subtle differences when it comes to the "attendant issue" originates from the fact that CoK is told via Sophos, while KoA is told via Costis. Remember, Costis has hung out around Gen's attendants much longer than Sophos and has seen their... for lack of a better term "inner Sejanus". For Sophos, they would be on their best behavior, because well... he's a king.

Another part of it, is that Gen is still fighting being a king, and his new control over his attendants reminds him that he is slowly (but surely) becoming one. They want to follow him, but he really doesn't want them to, yet he knows he needs them to so he... and well... Am I making any sense here? Gosh, Gen you're SCREWED UP! Pull yourself together, dude!

Sandy!

I've still got sand in my food
And I can't shake the thought of you

Ahhemm.

Honestly, considering Mrs. Turner did not elaborate on the Sandy issue, I think its more complicated then some cook who wants Gen to eat dirt. (Okay, I apologize for that. I'm on a sugar high.) I'm hoping to learn more about her in future books.

I've still got sand in my food
And I can't shake the thought of you

Agh! That song is stuck in my head! AND IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT! You associated MY FAVORITE Dido song with QT! HOW CAN I EVER REPAY YOU!?!

[beth-shulman.livejournal.com]

Hey! I'm doing well :) And lol at everything you wrote. I miss Costis :(

And LOL at the Sandy thing. I can't believe Sophos ate it.

[aged-crone.livejournal.com]

Well, my goodness! My ghastly pun about the person in the kitchen's being named Sandy lives on! I'm so impressed with myself!!! : )

crunch crunch

[agh-4.livejournal.com]

:) (honestly, methinks it's a good trade, what with all your hilarious, cracky dialogs to read.)

Ah, yes. There are things in ACoK that suggest that Gen, at this point, doesn't realize that his attendants have come to respect him, but maybe he does. Like you said, he needs to pull himself together, even though (and BECAUSE) he has a tough job to do, because now that he's king he needs to be King every single minute. And just get kinglier and kinglier as Political & Plotty Shtuff escalates.

As for Sandy (you rock -- er, sand -- Leslie...), she definitely has some kind of aim that Gen knows about, and that I hope we'll learn about.

[zumie-ashlen.livejournal.com]

I think it definitely has to do with the POV change.

In KOA we get a much fairer glimpse of them because Costis has a better measure of them. Sophos doesn't know them at all in ACOK, however.

Also, I think it needs to be factored in that they may have more faith in Gen than he thinks they do. They just may not be overt enough for him to realize (lollol Gen can be kind of a dismissive dummy sometimes!).

I think they do deeply respect him, but he has a long memory and might think they're just faking it so they won't get in trouble, after seeing what he can do.

[beth-shulman.livejournal.com]

Costis does have a better measure of them. I hope he's in the next two books; I've discovered that I miss him.

But I've never thought Gen would underestimate the people around him. Be outwardly dismissive, yes - which is what he's doing, maybe?

And elephants have nothing on Gen.*

*I just realized the irony of that statement. Ha!

[katecoombs.livejournal.com]

Maybe the sand-in-the-food thing just goes to show that although Gen has won over a number of key people in Attolia, it would be unrealistic to expect EVERYONE to stop hating or distrusting him, and therefore, some people on the palace staff are still out to get him in petty ways.

As for Gen's attitude towards the attendants, good point about Sophos' POV. And Gen is not a trusting, confiding person. I think it's more like he whipped his attendants into shape (they were so awful under Sejanus!), but it doesn't occur to him that they might actually LIKE him. He just thinks they're no longer crossing him.

[beth-shulman.livejournal.com]

it would be unrealistic to expect EVERYONE to stop hating or distrusting him

This is so true. In fact, I remember thinking, in the beginning of ACoK, where Gen rides out with Attolia, that it sounded remarkably similar to the beginning of KoA, where Gen is the newcomer to the court. It's like in KoA, he won over his court, and now he's working on the country. Although you would think that a cook would hear what happens in the palace and come to respect Gen, so maybe he/she has some other, deeper grudge.

And Gen doesn't think people like him, does he?

He probably expects to battle everyone every step of the way.

[thelasteddis.livejournal.com]

...it would be unrealistic to expect EVERYONE to stop hating or distrusting him, and therefore, some people on the palace staff are still out to get him in petty ways.

In fact, outside of the court it's practically fact that Gen is not just incompetent, but an enemy, as well. That he might be in love with Attolia is a fairy tale that's only just beginning to permeate the populace.

"The talk was loud... some of it about the new king. One and all disparaged his Eddisian background, but a few grudging supporters mentioned his rumoured love for their queen in his favor."

He has paid a high price for keeping Attolia safe and in power--he's made himself into a bad guy, so that Attolia assumes the part of the heroine. Hopefully, these "rumors" mean that enough of the real story will come out that he will remain incompetent (so that Attolia is still their only hope XD) but in a more agreeable manner.

[pico-the-great.livejournal.com]

I think most of the issue you're talking about are caused by the fact that despite the attendants drastically changing their minds about Eugenides because of the Erondites/Sejanus thing, Gen has yet to change (or to show he's changed) his mind about his attendants. He might still view them as lapdogs; he certainly doesn't view them as friends. Whereas, on the attendants' side, they realized "oh, holy shit, this guy knows what he's doing! Perhaps I admire that!" and are rueful that previous behavior took away all chance for them to ever be in Eugenides' good graces.

Because really, it kind of did. They were in a prime position not to be assholes to him, and make him feel less alone. In current internet parlance, they done goofed.

Anyway. What I'm trying to get at is: there has been a change of heart among the attendants, perhaps not complete but certainly sincere. And Eugenides doesn't trust that, because they've spent so long in playing him for a fool that, you know, this could just be another trick. He's also used to being alone, and having to be alone, and sometimes doesn't rely on people even though he could.

Everyone else in Attolia's view on all of this is that the attendants suddenly want desperately to please him - what's that all about? And Sandy's stil doing her thing because, well, she didn't know about Erondites. And Gen still acts out in court. And, to put a cap on it all, no matter how much he might do publicly right, there will still be people whose motivation is "go home already you freakin Eddisian" and will act and think accordingly.


Long answer is long, and possibly subjective. Hope it answers some of your questions!

[elvenjaneite.livejournal.com]

I completely agree--Gen still has very little reason to like or trust any of them, so at this point he doesn't. (Hopefully someday, because I do feel sorry for them.

[lylassandra.livejournal.com]

Well, trying to play him for a fool, anyways. =)

[beth-shulman.livejournal.com]

I kind of love this comment :)

And the cook will forever be Sandy to me.

[hazelwillow.livejournal.com]

Great explanation. I agree!

Interesting that the possibility of forgiveness/justice between kings and their servants is a theme in ACOK --just as Sophos condemns his Ion and must grapple with the question of whether forgiving him eventually would be appropriate, and of how to temper justice with mercy, and how his pardons are suddenly more weighty and must reflect more than just his feelings now.

And Gen is still dealing with the aftermath of his attendants who would like forgiveness for the way they acted in the past, on a human level.

Also did anyone else find it bizarre that both attendants had the same name? Ion and Ion --I just found it weird. It was possible to see the link between them without that. There's probably another reason for it I haven't grasped yet... maybe Ion means something in Greek?

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

Gen never really believes that people think highly of him -- remember how surprised he was to hear the magus call him a hero to his people? He may be a hero to his attendants, but he wouldn't believe that. It's layers of complexity with the point of view: Sophos sees attendants that are loyal to Gen and want his good opinion. Gen sees attendants who have shaped up but probably (he thinks) don't care about him. He still wishes they'd leave him alone and let him dress himself, I'm sure.

It's surprising that Attolia hasn't put a stop to the sand thing (unless Gen told her to let him handle it, which would explain everything). But hey, maybe it did stop, then started up again. Maybe it's someone new this time, or someone who's just very persistent.

[styromgalleries.livejournal.com]

It's surprising that Attolia hasn't put a stop to the sand thing
She doesn't know it's still going on. Remember that passage in CoK where Sophos tries to take some of Gen's food and Gen won't let him because there's sand in it? Then Attolia is glaring their way all suspiciously, so Sophos takes a bite just to ward her off.

BRAINWAVE! I think I know who Sandy is......

[deirdrej.livejournal.com]

Great discussion, everybody! Very illuminating!

And...

Speaking of attendants, do you remember that girl who liked Nahuserfish in QofA? Any chance she could have been demoted to the kitchens? We know from CoK that "Sandy" is somebody Gen knows -- wouldn't she be a good candidate?

One of the many things I can't wait to find out in the next book(s)....

Re: BRAINWAVE! I think I know who Sandy is......

[thelasteddis.livejournal.com]

Huh! That's a really good idea. Although didn't Chloe show up again in KoA? I thought I remembered wondering when she came back.

Re: BRAINWAVE! I think I know who Sandy is......

[agh-4.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I think she came back, or was never actually fired, or something.

It makes sense, and she definitely fits into the "Adores the queen" part of Gen's description, but to me Chloe seems to not really have the guts to continually tease/threaten the king like this, especially after she's met him.

FOR ALL OF US WHO MISS OUR MAN COSTIS...

[tiegirl.livejournal.com]

Don't forget that one interview with MWT's agent or editor or publisher or whoever, in which said whatever got the whole story narrated to her by our author? And said author explained that KoA got split into two books? What's my point, you ask? Oh. COSTIS IS COMING BACK!!! At least that is the thought that I hold close to my heart of hearts. Whatever that means.

Re: FOR ALL OF US WHO MISS OUR MAN COSTIS...

[beth-shulman.livejournal.com]

What what what? What interview was that?? Yessss.

[tiegirl.livejournal.com]

http://news.shelf-awareness.com/ar/theshelf/2010-04-14/megan_whalen_turner_testing_the_conventional.html

http://news.shelf-awareness.com/ar/theshelf/2010-04-14/behind_the_scenes_with_editor_virginia_duncan.html

[tiegirl.livejournal.com]

Sorry, I don't know how to edit my comment, or if you even can. The second link is to the blurb about her lunch with her editor. The first is an interview. I just meant to post the second link, because that's what I had the memory-fail about, but due to my lack-o-tech skilz, everyone gets a bonus!

[charlotteslibrary.blogspot.com (from livejournal.com)]

Is anyone else really, really worried about what all that sand is doing to Gen's teeth? and possibly to his digestive system??????

[tiegirl.livejournal.com]

Sharpening them? Muwahahahahaha!





(and I already discussed sand colic...)

[filkferengi]

So, after Sandy wins on Iron Chef, will the documentary detailing her culinary triumph be called "True Grit"?

[weg]