Of precious sparkly unicorns and glittery avaricious dragons…

[finding-further.livejournal.com]

Actually, this is a question about fan fiction. Does anyone know how mwt feels about fanfic? I recall reading this article (and its continuation here and here) which uses the unicorn and dragon analogy to describe how some authors feel about fanfic derived from their works. I don't recall any interviews, or any comments on Sounis, where mwt has weighed in with her thoughts on the topic. Anyone know?

ETA: complete links

Comments

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Ah, the old fan-fiction debate. As a QT fan-fic author, allow me to express why I don't think fan-fiction is really a big deal nor an enormous cause for copyright alarm. And as far as I know... No, Megan has never expressed an opinion about it. Her fan-fiction archive is barely around 200. Not that big compared to most other main-stream authors that reach thousands.

First: Very few things in this world are truly original. Ask Shakespeare.

I have created original stories with original characters, but I still find myself using fictional characters and RL people as bases. Do they grow from there? Yes, and they do eventually become there own persona.

Obviously, if Megan ever said she was offended by fan-fics, I would respectfully comply to her wishes. Do I think she is offended? No, I consider writing fan-fiction an expression of my love for her work. Do I want her to read them? Certainly not!

I think part of the problem originates in authors thinking them must read what is posted by their fans, and they expect the writing to be as good as what they themselves produce. If I were an author, I wouldn't obsess over it, and also I wouldn't want to steal from the fan-fic authors sub-consciously, so I would refrain from looking at them. I expect fan-fiction to be bad or par writing. Is it always? No, but that is a pleasant surprise.

We should comply to the wishes of authors like Anne Rice, but I do believe by placing that ban she is denying her fans a media for discussing, experiencing, and generally enjoying her work in a pretty innocent way. What is being written are fans INTERPRETING her characters and trying to write plots for them. Her characters are still her's, waiting for her to write more about them.

A fan-fic author isn't some dastardly plagiarists or evil person trying to steal others's characters and pass them off as their own. If it was like that, it wouldn't be called fan-fiction. FF is not a very big deal. I think FF is just fans having fun and wanting to share that with other fans. A lot like making icons and graphics. If they improve their writing in the process, kudos to them. My oldest fic, as of now, has (I think) 800 hits. Compare that to Megan selling thousands upon millions of her books and decide your opinion from their.

I'm not trying to steal from her. I'm simply trying to enjoy her work in a creative way.

Second: Fan-fiction does take A WHOLE LOTTA creativity and skill. Is it easier to write fan-fiction then original works? Ahh... As one who has done both, not really. Yes, you have backstory and characters to work with, but you still need a plot and you need to work out your characterization. Sometimes, it's actually HARDER, because you're trying to work through someone else's creative process. As a different writer, another author's characters will sound different in your own individual style and voice. I consider fan-fiction to be an entirely different venue then the original work. It's also HARDER to add something new to cannon so your work is interesting to other fans. You have to work within limits, yet still think big, which I think is excellent practice. It is a creative process, even though it is different from original writing.

Actually, it kinda ticks me off that fan-fic writers are called plagiarists by some people. Obviously, people who say that have never written fan-fiction, because then they would know the creative process isn't entirely original EVER. And yes, I understand most fan-fics are bad. OF COURSE THEY ARE. The people making them are budding writers without editors. That's why it's free...

[finding-further.livejournal.com]

I didn't really mean to start a debate. I'm thinking of contributing to the family fanfic challenge, and I wanted to know if mwt had ever offered her views. I know some authors have very strong views -- not only against, but FOR fanfic as well. This seemed to be the logical place to ask.

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Oh, no, no, no. I don't wish to offend. I'm just taking the opportunity to express my opinion in (what I mean) to be a respectful way. I believe you have reviewed for me in the past, so my comment was not directed at you, but more at the opinions in the links. I've also been running into the negative camp a lot in other things and wanted to talk about it with other QT FF authors.

But as I said, no I don't think she has. Posting this though may prompt an opinion from her. We'll see what she has to say. I hope you enter. I'm planning to myself. And yes, this is the most logical place to ask. I wasn't assuming you were being negative, I just have a strong opinion about this as a fan-fic author and it comes out.

Again, I apologize if I offended you. I really wasn't addressing you.

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Oh and, debate? This is Sounis, my dear. Our very existence requires intellectual debating. How else are we to avoid doing homework? I'd have to watch the cooking channel. How horrible would that be?

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Err... I realize now I maintained my intended even tone till that last paragraph, which came across a lot harsher than I intended. Oh... Please, ignore my psycho rants, Sounisians... You know how Lady Jane is. She's as crazy as a coconut.

*pokes TC to reply with alluded icon*

[tencups-i-swear.livejournal.com]

Here

[keestone.livejournal.com]

People who call fan-fiction plagiarism do not seem to understand what plagiarism is, and that annoys me. Harumph.

Fanfic is more like writing a response poem (I've written more of those than I have fic) than trying to pass somebody else's work off as your own.

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

If it's not exactly plagiarism, fanfiction IS copyright infringement.

[inkasrain.livejournal.com]

Speaking of fanfiction in general, I'm always peeved when authors fuss about it. I'm not saying they have to be thrilled to pieces that others are writing from their own work (and often poorly) but no one would write FF if they didn't love or weren't inspired by the source material. Unless a 'fic-er is trying to make money off of what they write (and maybe someone has at some point, but I've never heard of it) calling this supremely innocent expression of adaptive creativity "copyright infringement" or "plagiarism" (both of which happen in their true forms way too often for people to be flip with the terms) really gets my goat.

A poetry professor of mine once quoted a writer who told him "Whatever lets you write is good." Everyone starts somewhere; better fanfiction than published rip-offs like Eragon, in my opinion.

Okay. Toppling off my little soapbox now.

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Absolutely. That's a lot like what one other author said.

Fan-fiction is a truly most excellent problem to have; it’s like being out of caviar. It’s like, “I can’t afford to buy that horse made of gold because I just bought this horse made of gold."

...better fanfiction than published rip-offs like Eragon, in my opinion.

Dah! So true!

[roombakitty.livejournal.com]

Actually, there is a reasonably known case of a fanfic author trying to make a profit from FF. Cassandra Claire, now known as Cassandra Clare, the author of The Mortal Instruments series, is accused of profiteering; fans (possibly with her encouragement) would send her gifts and money with the hope that she would write updates faster. She is also accused of plagiarizing parts of her popular Draco Dormiens trilogy on fanfiction.net. The plagiarism aspect is more certain, but it is still interesting that an author with so many problems ended up with a commercially successful series.
http://www.fanhistory.com/wiki/Cassandra_Claire

[qwentoozla]

I think the subject of fanfiction came up during the Comic Con panel she was on, and though I can't quote her on it, I believe her thoughts were of the "flattered people are inspired by my work but I wouldn't read it myself" persuasion. Which is good, because I always think it's a bit ungrateful for authors to object to people having some not-for-profit creative fun with their work. I mean, I can understand why it might make them a little uncomfortable, but really, they should just avoid reading it and let people have their fun! I don't think fanfic takes anything away from the author, really.

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Ah, she commented on it during ComicCon. Good to know her opinion. Thanks!

[(Anonymous)]

I don't want want to speak for Megan, but I don't think she minds us writing them. But I *know* she doesnt read them. She's said so herself, I remember reading it in the archives, (creeping pays off!) not sure if ahe's changed her opinion since then but check the archives, it's in there :-)
Elle

*goes back to evil calculus*
at least I'll be watching wc after my exam tomorrow, that makes me feel soo much better about studying!

[tiegirl.livejournal.com]

Yes, I believe that's why she is not a member of Sounis...so that she does not have access to the fanfic site. Ask Checkers, but I think that's to avoid any appearance of having (I don't know how to put this that doesn't sound incredibly insulting) been influenced by any fanfiction. And no one could then say, hey, that was my idea she just put in her fantabulous book! (um, yeah, right) I'm pretty sure that's what we were told before. So to me, that seems to imply that it's okay to write it (which is good because I like to read it!) but our beloved author will not be reading any of it.

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Ah, QT_fic is not member locked, but any fan-fiction posted on Sounis is supposed to be. That's why we have the separate comm, so Megan can wander free around Sounis.

...hey, that was my idea she just put in her fantabulous book! (um, yeah, right)

*snort* Yeah right, indeed.

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Really? She did? Where, oh where? I want to see that.

at least I'll be watching wc after my exam tomorrow, that makes me feel soo much better about studying!

Dah! I do the same thing. Oh, HW done. Time to watch WC. Leverage, VMars, or History of Britain. It never gets old. Glad you're enjoying it, Eli!

[inkasrain.livejournal.com]

Tamora Pierce mentions something like this on her site. She doesn't mind fanfiction, but it's actually legally problematic for her to read it, even if she were inclined to:

"...Sometimes in the heat of the battle with a book, we grab any idea that surfaces, without necessarily knowing where it came from. I've since gone back to find things I've fitted to my use in books and movies I read years ago. I can't take the chance that someone else's ideas might enter the stew where my creativity happens, to surface years later: that's how writers get sued for copyright infringement/theft. It's nothing against fanfics or their writers, and everything to do with me covering my behind."

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

But we love debate!

Two very well-reasoned articles about fanfic, and they both actually mentions Megan's books!

http://www.schoollibraryjournal.com/article/CA6673573.html

http://www.hbook.com/magazine/articles/2009/nov09_schaffner.asp

And yeah, Megan has said that she does not read fanfic, and it is kept in a separate site. That way she can feel free to visit here without having to worry about stumbling over it.

I would think most authors are leery of fanfic--writing is their livelihood and they have to diligently protect what is theirs. Here's a fascinating article from Wired magazine about the situation in Japan--a difference in copyright law has allowed all kinds of fanfic to be written and sold. Does that then decrease the author's potential for further sales? Or increase it, as more people read the fanfics and want the originals? Anyway, fanfic has generated tough questions about ownership, fair use, and copyright.

http://www.wired.com/techbiz/media/magazine/15-11/ff_manga?currentPage=1

finding_further, I think you should feel free to contribute to the contest if you want. And it's great that you are concerned about how Megan feels about it.

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Ah, yes. Dojinshi. That's actually how one of the best selling manga-ka groups in Japan, Clamp, got their start. Cardcaptors, anyone?

Yes, I agree. It is such a complex issue, and drags in a lot of sticky legal issues. That's why I think we should listen to each author's wishes on the matter.

[puppeteergirl.livejournal.com]

Honestly, I can see both sides. As one who has created characters in the past, I can say that it is very easy to get too attached to your characters and how they are portrayed. Especially if a few people who call themselves "fans" insist on using your beloved characters for offensive things. It happens. People are LAME.

On the other hand, its kind of a compliment to have fans love your stories enough to spend time and brainpower creating new situations and scenarios for the characters to face. Also, (good) fan fiction means that someone has identified with your character on some level or other. Which means you rock. *YAY*

In the end, it is probably best for authors NOT to read fan fiction, but instead turn a blind eye on the whole situation. What they don't know won't hurt them, their feelings or their wallets.

[inkasrain.livejournal.com]

All this discussion actually reminded me of question I had a few years ago regarding fanfiction; if anybody feels like grappling with it, I'll present it for your enjoyment (such as it is ;-)).

While I was working on my creative writing portfolio in college (which sounds like it was a long time ago, but this was like... two years ago?) I was casting around for older things I had written, and decided to look back at some of my older fanfiction just for fun. I found a few stories I had written for the TV show "Heroes" (don't judge me, it was back in the first season when it was awesome!) that I realized were really nicely written, and I started wondering if I could use them in another context.

The reason I wondered if this was acceptable was because one story in particular took place years before the events of "Heroes", and aside from the character's names and what I personally knew about them, the actual plot of my story had absolutely no connection to anything "Heroes"-esque-- or certainly nothing that couldn't be obscured with a few detail changes. If I turned "Nathan" into "Henry" and "Peter" into "Allison", my story about a family camping trip would be impossible to recognize as originating from a television show.

The problem I had with my mental argument was that even if no one knew or recognized the characters and their familial dynamics, I knew that most of what I knew about the characters had come from "Heroes." I was elaborating, embellishing and even inventing quite a lot about them, but at their cores, they weren't mine.

In short, I didn't end up using the stories, but I'm still not absolutely sure if doing so would have constituted plagiarism. If anybody's read this far into my spiel, I'd be interested to know what you think!

I used to love Heroes too. I don't blame you.

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Oh, gosh! I've had this same thought before, but not about anything of mine. Wow, that's a can of worms. Where do I start? Hmm...

One fandom I read, InuYasha, seems to generate an exceptional amount of excellent AU. One AU fic I read by one of my favorite Inu authors placed the characters in a modern setting with different backgrounds, livelihoods, and circumstances. The characters and plot were essentially recognizable, but excellently redone and different enough to escape plagiarism if the names were changed. So, would it be ethical for the author to publish this work and make profit off of it?

As I said, can of worms...

I am a firm believer that all works are inspired by something and nothing is entirely original, but if a piece was original intended to be a fan-work, it would have been created keeping the original cannon in mind. When I write original, I think: I have this concept. Now, how do I write enduring characters and an interesting plot that will work with it? When I write fan-fics, I think: I have the already established cannon and characters. How do I create something new using them in this plot concept? The later is essentially capitalizing off of someone else's work, which is fine in a non-commercial fan-way, but not when making profit. At least, that's my two cents.

Maybe, if you had gone back to your fic, and keeping the plot intact, had re-worked the characters to be your own, you would have felt differently about it. A writer's mind is a very scary place (don't I know it), and I think it depends on the author to distinguish what they know was a product of their own creative process (though it may have been inspired by another) and what is a carbon-copy of someone else's character. That is, when speaking of an honest writer, of course.

For example: I honestly believe Gen was based in Howl. Are they similar? Yes. Are they exactly the same? Certainly not. Gen's arch-type may have been based on another character, but he was developed independent of Jones's work in a plot that was original to Megan. Is that plagiarism? No. At least, not in my book.

[keestone.livejournal.com]

That's commonly known as "filing off the serial numbers" and generally considered just fine. There's a good bit of published "original" fiction that is just that, and much of it does stand on its own. The main question is, can it stand on its own without shared knowledge of the background of Heroes?

(And seriously, there's nothing particularly original about the premise of Heroes to begin with, so the serial numbers should file off easily enough.)

[keestone.livejournal.com]

Also, when you think about it . . .

Which is less original: the family drama it sounds like you're describing, with new names and characters that with your elaboration are possibly only slightly similar to what the TV screenwriters described and in your own context or Eragon?