Eumenides... Any relation?

[savetheworld42.livejournal.com]

Here's a Wikipedia page for "Eumenides":

• Another name for the Erinyes, Greek deities of vengeance
• The Eumenides, the third part of Aeschylus' Greek tragedy, the Oresteia

It's probably because Greek names commonly end in "-ides" (I'm too lazy to research), but any connection counts in my book!

P.S. I found it while looking up "eulogy" in the dictionary... When will they go out of print?

Comments

[amolegere.livejournal.com]

I laugh every time I see their name too! It was bad luck to say their name (the Furies) so when the Greeks wanted to talk about them they'd call them the "Kindly Ones" (Eumenides). I like lolling about how maybe people are scared to say Gen's name too and having their earrings disappear the next night as a result ;)

[keestone.livejournal.com]

It's really interesting how that kind of euphemistic giving nice names to beings we're afraid of runs through lots of cultures. The first thing I thought of was the "fair folk" or "fairies".

I do think that's pretty different from naming someone "well born" or naming them after a patron god (or saint), or positive qualities you want them to have or be associated with ("Sophos") but it's a fun thought at the same time.

[amolegere.livejournal.com]

That is interesting!

Yeah, it's pretty different, but it would be so funny if it was true! :P

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

So what euphemism would they come up with for Gen? The hook-handed one? How about the Liar of Ages? DAH!

[agh-4.livejournal.com]

Since "kindly ones" is the nickname for the furies, maybe Gen's nickname is "The Honest One." :S

[elvenjaneite.livejournal.com]

I think he would be insulted by that, though.

[agh-4.livejournal.com]

probably ... :)

[amolegere.livejournal.com]

Helen and Irene might die of laughter if someone called Gen that XD

[amolegere.livejournal.com]

Liar of Ages, hahaha! He does lie on an epic scale.

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

How about: He Who Wears Canary Yellow?

*is having way too much fun with this*

[amolegere.livejournal.com]

THAT'S IT!!!! From now on that is Gen's epithet!

The Doctor answers

[thnidu.livejournal.com]

No relation... or rather, a different relationship. Greek "-(i)des" means 'son of, descendant of'. E.g., the House of Atreus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atreus) are the "Atreides": Frank Herbert's allusion was quite deliberate.

εὐγενής (eugenēs, the origin of the name "Eugene") means 'well-born, of noble race', or 'a well-born person'; εὐγενίδης ("Eugenides") means 'son/descendant of a noble person'. To what extent MWT meant this literally for these characters, deponent sayeth not.

This suffix appears in an inflected form in the very first line of the Iliad:

  μῆνιν     ἄειδε θεὰ           Πηληϊάδεω  Ἀχιλῆος
  The wrath sing, goddess, of Peleus' son, Achilles

(From Perseus Digital Library: text (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.01.0133); Butler's rather literal transl. (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.01.0134))

Respectfully submitted,
Dr. Whom, Consulting Linguist, Grammarian, Orthoëpist, and Philological Busybody

Re: The Doctor answers

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Ah, so -ides is similar the Fitz- then? That makes a lot of sense. Thanks so much!

Re: The Doctor answers

[thnidu.livejournal.com]

Yes: to Fitz- and M(a)c- and Ap- and ben- and bar- and -son and -sen and -ov and -´ez and...

It seems to be a habit with us.

Re: The Doctor answers

[savetheworld42.livejournal.com]

Ha, I like your list of titles. It reminded me of my assignment about Damaso Alonso. And got me wondering: Does Philologos's name have a special significance? We've discussed (to my knowledge) names like Irene and Helen, but not those of more minor characters.

This is fun! Thanks for your insight, thnidu! And everyone else who's answering! Another reminder of why I love Sounis.

Re: The Doctor answers

[(Anonymous)]

Well, Philo means love and logos means word, so it could be a way of saying that he's smarter than he appears.

[agh-4.livejournal.com]

Oh, cool. I've never seen that before.

It makes me think of the Eumen conspiracy, against the Sounis before the Sounis before Sophos. If Eumenides means "the kindly ones," is it the Kind Conspiracy?

I can't remember, was the conspiracy named after a character?

[amolegere.livejournal.com]

"Eu" means "well" in Greek, it's probably named after someone in the conspiracy with a name like Gen's. I don't know what "men" means though :/ *looks expectantly at thnidu*

[annalibelle.livejournal.com]

(random intrusion)hmmm well the Eumen conspiracy was lead by the Duke of Eumen, that's why now there's no Duke of Eumen anymore... if the Duke of Eumen was Ambiades's grandfather was THAT Duke of Eumen then does that mean Ambiades would have been heir to Sounis if the conspiracy was successful?

[agh-4.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah! That's why Ambiades was so Ambiades-ish...

He probably WOULD have been. That explains even more. What an ideal duo of apprentices...

[amolegere.livejournal.com]

Oooooh! Boy am I slow. Thanks! No wonder the poor guy was so bitter.