On Fanworks

[chubbyleng.livejournal.com]

This was on the LJ front page, and it got me thinking. How do you feel about fanfiction? How do you guys feel about authors disallowing fanfiction of their works? Is it really a "lazy way out"?

I understand the whole copyright issue behind it, and I think that authors have every right to control the way fans use the characters and world they've created, but when I really like a book and find out that the author doesn't like to have fanworks of it, I can't help but feel disappointed. I've been writing fanfiction for a long time, and I think it really helps with understanding characters or at least forming your perception of the characters. And it's always charming to see how other people perceive the characters you read about. And for people like me, I wonder why it has to be a "lazy way out" when I don't even have plans of becoming a published author. (I also don't understand the 'suing' part. Fanfiction writers don't make any money. What are they going to sue from you?)

With that said, for the writers here, or people who are planning to be writers, (or dreaming of becoming one), would you be offended if people write fanfiction of your works? 

How about fanarts? Do fanarts hold the same gravity of rights infringement as fanfictions do?

Comments

[booksrgood4u.livejournal.com]

I just saw this too, and I was kind of annoyed - I mean, I can understand that authors want to protect their rights, but fanfiction authors usually have to put a disclaimer, so it's obvious that they are not being disinegenuous in any way.

I write fanfiction as sort of an expression of my love for the series and the charachters. My feeling is this:
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. I'd think I'd be honored.

And I don't think Fanart is an infringement either. Even more thatn fanfiction, it completely belongs to the artist, IMO. It's no different than being inspired by something you saw while you were grocery shopping and decided to make art about it. Quite honestly, alot of the fanart Gens, Irenes and Helens floating around here would be just as lovely w/o prior knowledge of the series.

I think you're going to have a spirited and interesting discussion on your hands, Leng!

[attackfish.livejournal.com]

I know this is tangental, but what is this putting AUs with OOC fic and claiming it doesn't help you understand the world and characters? I've been writing primarily AU fic for my entire fic writing career, andhaving to consider what changes and what doesn't when I change an aspect of the canon universe teaches me a lot about the characters and the world both. I've also writen original character stories (though never an AU about original characters, because, why?) and that too can teach a whole lot about the world.

[earthstar-moon.livejournal.com]

While I get that some writers might get annoyed with how some fanfics might portray their characters/setting, I really don't think it should be that big of a deal. It's not like fanfics are going to get readers to stop reading the original works (unless of course the fanfics start being better because the series decided to suddenly turn bad, but that's the author's fault not the fanfics. *cough*Naruto*cough*).

In fact, a lot of published writers get their start from writing fanfics before they start to develop their own world and characters. Fanfics just show how much fans love a series and also examine or give attention to certain characters that the original author just didn't have the option to do.

I'm hoping one day to be a published writer, I'm not going to mind one bit if there's fanfiction. However, I am going to make it clear that I'm not going to read any fanfics either. A lot of writers take that policy so there's no risk of a fanfic writer saying "Hey! That author stole that idea from my fanfic!" It sounds silly, but I think it's a reasonable approach.

[chubbyleng.livejournal.com]

Well... I was only referring to really extreme ones, (and really... bad written ones), where the only similar thing is the character's look and name. The writer has them do things that they would NEVER, EVER do, not even for the sake of 'exploring', but more because there wasn't any thought put into it. I'm sure you've seen a few of those somewhere. I mean, there *are* bad fanfictions out there as much as good ones.

On the other hand, I have seen AU fanfictions that just blow my mind away, where characters are a bit OOC and yet it still works. But I still think there's a limit to how OOC you can have a character before it's just... disguising your own creation behind someone else's name and body.

Anyway, I think I should clarify that? You're absolutely right. I think I was sort of implying that AU and OOC are no good with character understanding.

[freenarnian.livejournal.com]

As a writer, I know that *I* want to tell my characters' stories. I would be disappointed in myself if someone else thought part of my story needed to be filled in with fan fiction, because then it would feel like I'd failed to make it complete myself. Authors put a lot of time and thought into crafting their stories, deciding what goes in and what does not and what's only hinted at, etc. There are some great Mona Lisa parodies out there that I like but I sure wouldn't want someone to deepen the corners of her smile on the original da Vinci because they thought it was too faint. Does that make sense/work as an illustration?

THAT SAID, I realize that fan fiction is a form of praise and I don't think I'd get too upset about it, as long as people respected the original as canon. I'm a pretty laid back individual. My only qualm would be if people fundamentally changed the original story (e.g. had a character fall in love with someone other than the character I paired them with, changed the core of their personality, etc). That would bother me. Fan fiction spin-offs, inspired-bys, and all-in-good-funs would be a different thing. I think some of it could be really exciting. There are so, so many books out there that come from the same sources of inspiration... legends, traditions, etc. It's the nature of art.

Finally, I agree with the authors who encouraged people inspired by their works to create and carry on with their own stories/characters/worlds. Never having been into writing fan fiction myself, this is what I try to do. Everyone has their own story to tell. Everyone. I'm not saying fan fiction is a waste of time (it's good practice!) and I realize that some people don't aspire to be published authors themselves - it's about the enjoyment they get from writing fan fiction. That's fine too.

Interesting subject! I'm not always sure where exactly I would stand on it... a lot would depend on the particular case.

[rj-anderson.livejournal.com]

I think fanfic and fanart are a tremendous compliment to any author, no matter what they may think of its content or quality. In fact, I started a Tumblr just to repost some of the fanart I'd seen of my books, and when I discovered just this past week that somebody had written fanfiction for one of my books I was positively gleeful about it.

(I didn't read it, though, because I think the author deserves the freedom to play in my sandbox on their own terms, without me looming over them making judgments about whether they're doing it right.)

Anyway, I've written great walloping wads of fanfic myself in the past, some of it in book-based fandoms like HP and Incarceron, so it would be pretty hypocritical of me to start whining about people writing stories based on my books.

Saundra Mitchell (author of The Vespertine and The Springsweet, both of which are wonderful) has an excellent post about fanfic from a pro author's perspective here: http://anywherebeyond.livejournal.com/441330.html (http://anywherebeyond.livejournal.com/441330.html)

[chubbyleng.livejournal.com]

I write fanfiction as sort of an expression of my love for the series and the charachters. My feeling is this:
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. I'd think I'd be honored.

Yeah, this is how I feel too.

I was wondering about fanarts, because apart from specific descriptions, it's likely that someone's drawing of a character would not look any thing like what the author imagined anyway. I mean, just looking at the assorted fanarts of QT, we have many different looking Gens and Irenes and Helens. And I have knows some authors who clearly say that they won't read fanfictions, but they do look at fanarts.

[loquaciousquark.livejournal.com]

The thing I've never understood is why some people willingly slap an OOC label on their own fanfic. That makes absolutely no sense to me--it's like they're admitting they got the character wrong and they know it, but they're too lazy/unwilling to correct the character's responses and then...advertising it? IDGI IDK.

That said, one of the most popular fics in one of my fandoms is a coffeeshop AU, and the reason it's so popular is precisely because even in that setting, the characters are instantly recognizable and all their reactions are wholly in keeping with how they act in the source material. That seemed more the mark of a good writer than someone who just tacked a photo over the characters' faces and called them the right name while they acted like a whole 'nother person altogether.

[attackfish.livejournal.com]

I've only ever labled one of my fics OOC, and that was very special circumstances, a drabble written based on a fandom joke. But the way most people do it... well, it just makes me hit the back button so fast. If even the author thinks it's OOC...

[attackfish.livejournal.com]

Badly written is badly written, and I don't like OOC either, but AU and OOC are not synonymous, and for some reason, a lot of fandom thinks they are. I'm sorry. It's a bit of a sore spot.

[nebroadwe.livejournal.com]

kate_nepveu also wrote a very intelligent post (http://kate-nepveu.livejournal.com/481047.html) about the issue during the Diana Gabaldon kerfuffle two years back. Worth reading.

[helle-d.livejournal.com]

I found your first paragraph interesting, because my view is almost the opposite - that fanfiction works best when a world is detailed enough that an author couldn't hope to explore every aspect of it, and there are corners free to play with.

[chubbyleng.livejournal.com]

I understand they're not the same, and they're independent of each other. I think I misunderstood your first sentence as referring to both, not just OOC, and I responded by referring to fics that had both. *was reading too fast* I have read many AUs that have IC characters as much as OOC characters.

[attackfish.livejournal.com]

No problem. As I said, it's a stupid sore spot.

[msmcknittington.livejournal.com]

I would be honored as anything if someone read some of my original fiction and decided to write fanfic for it. Super honored. It would be like a ticker tape parade, without having to go to the moon first. Of course, I probably wouldn't read any of it, but I'd be very pleased if anyone found my writing interesting enough to build on.

[ayvara.livejournal.com]

One of the comments had a comparison with the Mona Lisa about fanfiction. I guess I have my own comparison too, that sums up my opinion. Parodies of the Mona Lisa in no way affect the beauty and value of the original, or change that da Vinci painted it. Likewise, unless they are making money off of it, I do not see how fanfiction can ruin an author's work or infringe on their ownership of it. I understand why writers don't like fanfiction, but I dislike when they state that their "characters are [their] children", like George R.R. Martin did, because they have chosen to share their "children" with everyone else, and they cannot control what people think about these characters or how they perceive them. I feel writers should discourage fanfiction if they want, and voice their opinions, but I don't think they should sue unless they are losing money over it.
Personally, I like fanfiction and I can unashamedly say I've read a lot of it. Some of it is bad, some is great and I don't want to put limits on it. Even if it's OOC, so be it. I think it can be valuable writing experience and deepen one's understanding of characters, and it is also just fun. Sometimes, it's stupid, silly fun, but I think that is okay. I don't plan to become a published author, but if I did, I would certainly not discourage fanfiction of my works. I would never read any of it but I'd would be flattered.

[imbecamiel.livejournal.com]

I actually had very much the same thoughts.

The truth is, oftentimes authors aren't free to explore every aspect of the characters or world that readers might find interesting, simply because of the constraints involved in crafting a good, tightly-knit plot. The fact that there may be some scene or reaction left out that readers would've enjoyed seeing doesn't mean that the author has failed in some aspect... most often it simply means that, while fun, that particular part wouldn't have driven the plot forward, and thus had to be left out. There are limits to the length a published novel can run to, and most editors tend to emphasize trimming "fluff" that's unnecessary/not contributing, because stories that don't move forward quickly enough can lose readers.

And really, sometimes the things that people really, really want to see more of aren't even huge unexplored aspects of character development. Sometimes it's just a matter of wanting more, period. In a number of fandoms, I actually love reading stories where the characters simply, say, go grocery shopping together. They're just being themselves, in a situation that may provide fun opportunities to highlight their quirkiness, or just a bit of banter and companionable hanging out. Done well, it can be a wonderfully enjoyable way of spending a bit more time with the characters - but it's not exactly the sort of thing that'd fit well in most books, because there's not really much point to it. :)

[msmcknittington.livejournal.com]

The "fictional characters as children" metaphor actually makes me a bit uncomfortable, because parents don't have total control of their children, not even babies. And I get a bit weirded out when writers start talking about their characters if they are real people who make decisions and have rights, as if they exist on some near tangible plane that the author has the only access to, and then demand complete and total control over those characters.

Overweening possessiveness makes me uncomfortable in general, though, and there's something icky about people trying to control other people who aren't hurting them or they people they are "hurting" are fictional and therefore incapable of actually being damaged.

I mean, don't get wrong -- I do get emotionally attached to my fictional characters and greatly dislike having to hurt them to move the story forward. I have one story that's stalled out because I've somehow managed to structure it so the main character's father has to be dead, barring some sort of miraculous deus ex machina, and it makes me TOO SAD to write it. But if I manage to finish it and it ends up published and someone writes fanfic of those characters where they're all crushed horribly by rocks and elephants and falling satellites and it is gruesome and awful? That in no way affects what I've written. My characters have not actually been maimed by random chunks of space crap. What other people do to fictional, never existed characters does not hurt me.

[imbecamiel.livejournal.com]

I just have to say... I do agree with your perspective on this in general. Your comment also made me smile, because it suddenly reminded me so vividly of the children that I babysit every week, and it's not a parallel that had occurred to me before.

Very often, they'll be playing with their Playmobile characters, and the little girl will be happily creating her little stories about the family, and the things they're doing, when her older brother will come along and announce... that his character has just shot them all/fed them to dinosaurs/other horrific fate.

And every time... she shrieks in distress, and starts to throw a fit. And I have to remind her that this is pretend and she doesn't actually have to pay attention to what he just said. If she doesn't like it, she can just ignore his declaration, and go on playing her own way with nothing affected. Because his declaring her characters to be dead doesn't actually make them so. *g*

[chubbyleng.livejournal.com]

published writers get their start from writing fanfics before they start to develop their own world and characters

I don't know if there's an exact correlation between writing fanfiction and original stories, but I did find that writing fanficion enabled me to improve my writing by miles more than any other type of writing I had done before. Maybe it was just because I was more passionate, or that there were actually readers who were willing to take that first step and try your story out, and therefore be able to give feedback?

Yeah, I have heard about authors avoiding fanfiction just because of the plagiarism issue. You really never know where inspiration can come from, and just to be safe, they stay away from them. I think it makes sense too.

[chubbyleng.livejournal.com]

Sometimes it's just a matter of wanting more, period. In a number of fandoms, I actually love reading stories where the characters simply, say, go grocery shopping together. They're just being themselves, in a situation that may provide fun opportunities to highlight their quirkiness, or just a bit of banter and companionable hanging out. Done well, it can be a wonderfully enjoyable way of spending a bit more time with the characters - but it's not exactly the sort of thing that'd fit well in most books, because there's not really much point to it. :)

Very true. Some of my most favourite fanfictions to write and read about are just the everyday-slice-of-life kind of stories. They don't even have to be very long. Sometimes, seeing characters do something or say something is enough to make you fall in love with them all over again.

[drashizu.livejournal.com]

I can only imagine this being any sort of problem whatsoever for the copyright holder if the fanfic author is trying to make money or pass their fanfic off as a real sequel.

Otherwise, if it's similar enough to the original work to be questionable, the fact that fans read fic because they want more of the original means that fanfiction is basically serving as free advertising for the original author. As soon as they publish a new book, those fans will be all over it. I don't see how it could in any way be considered detrimental to the original "brand."

Of course, if the derivative is creative enough and good enough that it can compete with the original, it's probably protected parody or a transformative piece qualifying as fair use.

Besides, I don't see how it's realistic to expect to stop fanfiction from happening. I know "you can't stop it anyway" isn't a logically sound argument against fighting something you think is wrong, but seriously, if you wage war against your own fans and the culture they espouse and participate in creating, that doesn't sound to me like the way to attract more sales for your next book.

[spunspider.livejournal.com]

the way authors like GRRM talk about fanfic really pisses me off. it's so offensive and rude. fanficcers are literally keeping your work alive. even if you're still writing it, it's like – when GRRM says they're 'his children', when fanfic happens it's like he's given birth and the bit when they go off to do other, unknown, experimental, sometimes stupid and sometimes brilliant things is when they're alive and how they grow. i mean, come on. if you buy into reader-response theory, your text is only what it is to you to you; for every reader it's something else, a slightly different story, different characters, a different experience. once you're done with it i'm sorry but you cease to matter. /YOU/ are not the point.

if i can ever get my act together and manage to become a published writer i'm fully expecting fanficcers, many of whom will be far more talented than i am, to write fanfic. although i think it would probably be a mistake to read fanfic of your work while you're writing it.

[aged-crone.livejournal.com]

I've written a few fanfics in my time - fixing the debacle that was Season 3 of Due South, for example - accompanied of course by disclaimers. Even one fun one borrowing our favorite book characters. And I'm mentally plotting, and will probably end up writing down, a couple of sequel-stories-or-scenes to Antonia Forest's books.

But if the person who created or owns the characters (not always the same thing, especially with tv shows, I gather) forbade me to post or publish them, then I wouldn't publish or post them. Nothing to stop me from thinking of them or writing them down, but I think they have a right to say how their own creations appear in public.

I loathe Jar Jar Binks, and am none too fond of the prequel Star Wars trilogy (why on *earth* would Amidala want to marry that whiny annoying adolescent?), but they're George Lucas'. If he wants to tell people to quite publishing fanfic, that's fine. Similarly, if an author whose books I like told me to knock it off, I'd respect his wishes.

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

First and foremost, I believe an author should have full control over their creative property and characters, so if an author forbad me to publicly post fanfiction, I would respect that. However, the point of FF is not to disrespect, remake an author's creative property, or somehow take credit for their work (if we were trying to do that, we wouldn't call it FANfiction), it's simply an element of fandom used to celebrate and expand on a work. Beyond being based on their work, FF has very little to do with the original author. It's all about the fans, the art, and the simple joy of sharing your creativity.

There's also the question of why FF writers write, and rarely do any of them write with the intention to train as a professional writer. They simply write for fun, fandom, and friends. :) And if doing so is in anyway "lazy," (a notion I don't agree with) then that's their business. Not to mention... under that same logic, Shakespeare was also a "lazy" writer for basing his plays on the writings of others.

TV writer John Rogers's (the creator of Leverage) opinion (http://www.psychfic.com/community/showthread.php?t=2347) on FF pretty much sums up my thoughts. One of my favorite things about him, is that he actually makes references to in-fandom FF pairings within the episodes he writes! He's so awesome. He's also very big on adding ship teases, for those who don't like the cannon parings.

Also, FYI: fandom is where is I get 80% of my recs from. If fandom is big and FF counts are high, that's a sign to me that this show or book is probably pretty good. I think a lot of authors fail to see how internet fandom can actually support their work by spreading the word; and the core substance of fandom is often fanfiction and fanart.