On Fanworks
Apr. 20th, 2012 02:25 pmThis was on the LJ front page, and it got me thinking. How do you feel about fanfiction? How do you guys feel about authors disallowing fanfiction of their works? Is it really a "lazy way out"?
I understand the whole copyright issue behind it, and I think that authors have every right to control the way fans use the characters and world they've created, but when I really like a book and find out that the author doesn't like to have fanworks of it, I can't help but feel disappointed. I've been writing fanfiction for a long time, and I think it really helps with understanding characters or at least forming your perception of the characters. And it's always charming to see how other people perceive the characters you read about. And for people like me, I wonder why it has to be a "lazy way out" when I don't even have plans of becoming a published author. (I also don't understand the 'suing' part. Fanfiction writers don't make any money. What are they going to sue from you?)
With that said, for the writers here, or people who are planning to be writers, (or dreaming of becoming one), would you be offended if people write fanfiction of your works?
How about fanarts? Do fanarts hold the same gravity of rights infringement as fanfictions do?
I understand the whole copyright issue behind it, and I think that authors have every right to control the way fans use the characters and world they've created, but when I really like a book and find out that the author doesn't like to have fanworks of it, I can't help but feel disappointed. I've been writing fanfiction for a long time, and I think it really helps with understanding characters or at least forming your perception of the characters. And it's always charming to see how other people perceive the characters you read about. And for people like me, I wonder why it has to be a "lazy way out" when I don't even have plans of becoming a published author. (I also don't understand the 'suing' part. Fanfiction writers don't make any money. What are they going to sue from you?)
With that said, for the writers here, or people who are planning to be writers, (or dreaming of becoming one), would you be offended if people write fanfiction of your works?
How about fanarts? Do fanarts hold the same gravity of rights infringement as fanfictions do?
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Date: 4/20/12 06:47 pm (UTC)I write fanfiction as sort of an expression of my love for the series and the charachters. My feeling is this:
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. I'd think I'd be honored.
And I don't think Fanart is an infringement either. Even more thatn fanfiction, it completely belongs to the artist, IMO. It's no different than being inspired by something you saw while you were grocery shopping and decided to make art about it. Quite honestly, alot of the fanart Gens, Irenes and Helens floating around here would be just as lovely w/o prior knowledge of the series.
I think you're going to have a spirited and interesting discussion on your hands, Leng!
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Date: 4/20/12 07:15 pm (UTC)Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. I'd think I'd be honored.
Yeah, this is how I feel too.
I was wondering about fanarts, because apart from specific descriptions, it's likely that someone's drawing of a character would not look any thing like what the author imagined anyway. I mean, just looking at the assorted fanarts of QT, we have many different looking Gens and Irenes and Helens. And I have knows some authors who clearly say that they won't read fanfictions, but they do look at fanarts.
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Date: 4/20/12 06:48 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 4/20/12 07:04 pm (UTC)On the other hand, I have seen AU fanfictions that just blow my mind away, where characters are a bit OOC and yet it still works. But I still think there's a limit to how OOC you can have a character before it's just... disguising your own creation behind someone else's name and body.
Anyway, I think I should clarify that? You're absolutely right. I think I was sort of implying that AU and OOC are no good with character understanding.
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Date: 4/20/12 07:20 pm (UTC)That said, one of the most popular fics in one of my fandoms is a coffeeshop AU, and the reason it's so popular is precisely because even in that setting, the characters are instantly recognizable and all their reactions are wholly in keeping with how they act in the source material. That seemed more the mark of a good writer than someone who just tacked a photo over the characters' faces and called them the right name while they acted like a whole 'nother person altogether.
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Date: 4/20/12 06:59 pm (UTC)In fact, a lot of published writers get their start from writing fanfics before they start to develop their own world and characters. Fanfics just show how much fans love a series and also examine or give attention to certain characters that the original author just didn't have the option to do.
I'm hoping one day to be a published writer, I'm not going to mind one bit if there's fanfiction. However, I am going to make it clear that I'm not going to read any fanfics either. A lot of writers take that policy so there's no risk of a fanfic writer saying "Hey! That author stole that idea from my fanfic!" It sounds silly, but I think it's a reasonable approach.
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Date: 4/21/12 12:13 am (UTC)I don't know if there's an exact correlation between writing fanfiction and original stories, but I did find that writing fanficion enabled me to improve my writing by miles more than any other type of writing I had done before. Maybe it was just because I was more passionate, or that there were actually readers who were willing to take that first step and try your story out, and therefore be able to give feedback?
Yeah, I have heard about authors avoiding fanfiction just because of the plagiarism issue. You really never know where inspiration can come from, and just to be safe, they stay away from them. I think it makes sense too.
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Date: 4/20/12 07:08 pm (UTC)THAT SAID, I realize that fan fiction is a form of praise and I don't think I'd get too upset about it, as long as people respected the original as canon. I'm a pretty laid back individual. My only qualm would be if people fundamentally changed the original story (e.g. had a character fall in love with someone other than the character I paired them with, changed the core of their personality, etc). That would bother me. Fan fiction spin-offs, inspired-bys, and all-in-good-funs would be a different thing. I think some of it could be really exciting. There are so, so many books out there that come from the same sources of inspiration... legends, traditions, etc. It's the nature of art.
Finally, I agree with the authors who encouraged people inspired by their works to create and carry on with their own stories/characters/worlds. Never having been into writing fan fiction myself, this is what I try to do. Everyone has their own story to tell. Everyone. I'm not saying fan fiction is a waste of time (it's good practice!) and I realize that some people don't aspire to be published authors themselves - it's about the enjoyment they get from writing fan fiction. That's fine too.
Interesting subject! I'm not always sure where exactly I would stand on it... a lot would depend on the particular case.
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Date: 4/20/12 07:58 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 4/21/12 05:12 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 4/20/12 07:15 pm (UTC)(I didn't read it, though, because I think the author deserves the freedom to play in my sandbox on their own terms, without me looming over them making judgments about whether they're doing it right.)
Anyway, I've written great walloping wads of fanfic myself in the past, some of it in book-based fandoms like HP and Incarceron, so it would be pretty hypocritical of me to start whining about people writing stories based on my books.
Saundra Mitchell (author of The Vespertine and The Springsweet, both of which are wonderful) has an excellent post about fanfic from a pro author's perspective here: http://anywherebeyond.livejournal.com/441330.html (http://anywherebeyond.livejournal.com/441330.html)
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Date: 4/20/12 07:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 4/20/12 10:53 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 4/20/12 11:03 pm (UTC)Personally, I like fanfiction and I can unashamedly say I've read a lot of it. Some of it is bad, some is great and I don't want to put limits on it. Even if it's OOC, so be it. I think it can be valuable writing experience and deepen one's understanding of characters, and it is also just fun. Sometimes, it's stupid, silly fun, but I think that is okay. I don't plan to become a published author, but if I did, I would certainly not discourage fanfiction of my works. I would never read any of it but I'd would be flattered.
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Date: 4/20/12 11:32 pm (UTC)Overweening possessiveness makes me uncomfortable in general, though, and there's something icky about people trying to control other people who aren't hurting them or they people they are "hurting" are fictional and therefore incapable of actually being damaged.
I mean, don't get wrong -- I do get emotionally attached to my fictional characters and greatly dislike having to hurt them to move the story forward. I have one story that's stalled out because I've somehow managed to structure it so the main character's father has to be dead, barring some sort of miraculous deus ex machina, and it makes me TOO SAD to write it. But if I manage to finish it and it ends up published and someone writes fanfic of those characters where they're all crushed horribly by rocks and elephants and falling satellites and it is gruesome and awful? That in no way affects what I've written. My characters have not actually been maimed by random chunks of space crap. What other people do to fictional, never existed characters does not hurt me.
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Date: 4/21/12 12:17 am (UTC)Otherwise, if it's similar enough to the original work to be questionable, the fact that fans read fic because they want more of the original means that fanfiction is basically serving as free advertising for the original author. As soon as they publish a new book, those fans will be all over it. I don't see how it could in any way be considered detrimental to the original "brand."
Of course, if the derivative is creative enough and good enough that it can compete with the original, it's probably protected parody or a transformative piece qualifying as fair use.
Besides, I don't see how it's realistic to expect to stop fanfiction from happening. I know "you can't stop it anyway" isn't a logically sound argument against fighting something you think is wrong, but seriously, if you wage war against your own fans and the culture they espouse and participate in creating, that doesn't sound to me like the way to attract more sales for your next book.
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Date: 4/21/12 04:39 am (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 4/21/12 12:40 am (UTC)if i can ever get my act together and manage to become a published writer i'm fully expecting fanficcers, many of whom will be far more talented than i am, to write fanfic. although i think it would probably be a mistake to read fanfic of your work while you're writing it.
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Date: 4/21/12 04:03 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 4/21/12 01:09 am (UTC)But if the person who created or owns the characters (not always the same thing, especially with tv shows, I gather) forbade me to post or publish them, then I wouldn't publish or post them. Nothing to stop me from thinking of them or writing them down, but I think they have a right to say how their own creations appear in public.
I loathe Jar Jar Binks, and am none too fond of the prequel Star Wars trilogy (why on *earth* would Amidala want to marry that whiny annoying adolescent?), but they're George Lucas'. If he wants to tell people to quite publishing fanfic, that's fine. Similarly, if an author whose books I like told me to knock it off, I'd respect his wishes.
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Date: 4/21/12 03:57 am (UTC)There's also the question of why FF writers write, and rarely do any of them write with the intention to train as a professional writer. They simply write for fun, fandom, and friends. :) And if doing so is in anyway "lazy," (a notion I don't agree with) then that's their business. Not to mention... under that same logic, Shakespeare was also a "lazy" writer for basing his plays on the writings of others.
TV writer John Rogers's (the creator of Leverage) opinion (http://www.psychfic.com/community/showthread.php?t=2347) on FF pretty much sums up my thoughts. One of my favorite things about him, is that he actually makes references to in-fandom FF pairings within the episodes he writes! He's so awesome. He's also very big on adding ship teases, for those who don't like the cannon parings.
Also, FYI: fandom is where is I get 80% of my recs from. If fandom is big and FF counts are high, that's a sign to me that this show or book is probably pretty good. I think a lot of authors fail to see how internet fandom can actually support their work by spreading the word; and the core substance of fandom is often fanfiction and fanart.
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Date: 4/21/12 09:00 am (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 4/21/12 04:52 am (UTC)And I'm wondering... why is that? I of course don't know. I'm wondering if it has to do with the fact that, its different. Writing stories about the characters the author writes stories about is alot like what they do, so they kind of want you to back off--thats MY job thanks. But drawing pictures of characters you write stories about, thats not what they do, they're not selling it and therefore don't feel threatened by it.
And maybe also... don't take this wrong, but... alot of people THINK they can write, but not as many THINK they can draw. (I'm just remembering my "World of Childrens Publishing" class [best class EVER btw], where there were probably 7+ would-be authors to each illustrator.) So there are just more people out there who think they can write a fun story about someone elses character than people who think they can draw a good picture of someone elses character.
What do you guys think?
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Date: 4/21/12 03:02 pm (UTC)Maybe it would be different if, for example, somebody decided to re-draw the pictures for Where the Wild Things Are and utterly changes the way the author/artist envisioned them. I don't know.
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Date: 4/21/12 11:15 am (UTC)To be completely honest, I dislike fanfiction. I tried it, read some good ones, read some terrible ones, but in the end I found that I much prefer going back and re reading the actual book.
But, I don't agree with sueing someone unless they were selling their works or it was painfully obvious their story was based off a popular work, but they didn't want to admit it. I've read one of those, and never want to again.
In regards to the people who dislike fanfiction (including myself), I think that the old method of "if you don't like it, don't read it" is an excellent way to avoid problems. Although i've said I dislike fanfiction, it's because this discussion asked for opinions. I hate people who go to sites they don't like just to insult people, in this case just because they don't like fanfiction. Having said that, however, I'm not sure what I would think if people wrote fanfiction about something I had written... :S It's a difficult subject to look at from that point of view. Many things I haven't understood until It actually happened to me, so I think it can be very difficult to truly put yourself in the authors shoes. We look at it very objectively, but these books must be very important to them, and just because they are authors doesn't mean they can't be irrationally possessive...
I think the comparison to fanart is very interesting, I'd never even thought of fanart in the same frame as fanfic...
I hope that made even a little bit of sense. Obviously I will never become a writer, I'm terrible at explaining my thoughts... :P
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Date: 4/21/12 02:36 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 4/21/12 02:55 pm (UTC)I think authors who attack their fans are really doing themselves a diservice. If they don't want FF of their work, politely ask people to not post it. Don't attack them as lazy. They are sharing their love of the series through imitation. And I understand that they can't read the FF's because of copyrights, but that doesn't make it bad. I don't like escarole, but that doesn't make it bad.
Fanfics don't neccesarily mean that the author left something out of the books, (though that could be the case, too. When Sherwood Smith first published Crown Duel and Court Duel as 2 books, there were scenes she had to leave out for space, though the Firebirds edition gave her enough space to put those scenes back in) But sometimes it's "what happens when the story ends?" The bad guys are defeated and the world is at peace, but the main characters have to pick up the pieces and put their lives back together. Or maybe they just have to move on, maybe start a family.
I personally don't like the ones that are like "What if A had happened instead of B?" (What if Alanna HAD gone to the convent, or married Jon, or my favorite - what if Alanna had married George and Jon had married Thayet and then, 20 years later, decide that they really wanted to marry each other and start having an affair?) But if that's what some people like to, then I have the option not to read that story.
I think fanart is different becuase everyone has a different idea of what people look like. And because they are an author and you are an artist, they don't feel threatened by you.
And you know what? You never know when an fanficer might have to step up to fill your shoes. When I was younger, my favorite series ever was the Boxcar Children. (When I stopped keeping track, there were about 100 regulars, and they had about 2 dozen "Special Editions") Gertrude Chandler Warner only wrote the first 18. After that, someone else wrote them, and each book just said "Created by Gertrude Chandler Warner." Those books were a huge success because, at the time they were written, they filled a gap in children's literature - kids having adventures in books that weren't too difficult to read. And I liked solving the mysteries.
Hopefully, lj doesn't choke on this comment ... I didn't realize how long it was....
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Date: 4/21/12 05:17 pm (UTC)And then, yeah, there's always the possibility that the author just had to cut things out or has references to incidences that you're really curious about but wouldn't fit in the book.
And good point about the Boxcar Children! A similar thing happened with the Bobbsey Twins, Nancy Drew, the Hardy Boys, and tons of other older children's series (though, to be fair, at least ND and HB were ghost-written to start with, but that really doesn't count for all the spin-off series). Also, it seems to me that a number of tv shows and some films have had tons of spin-off books (Star Trek, CSI, Doctor Who, etc.), which I'm pretty sure are really fan fic. 'Sanctioned' fan fic, but still fan fic, sometimes addressing what-ifs and different settings and such.
Then again, I'm pretty convinced that some film adaptations are really just fan fic variants...
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Date: 4/22/12 01:59 am (UTC)I am with Plato: the problem with writing may be that authors have to send their books out into the world unable to speak back and defend themselves. And that's the nature of writing: once an author releases her book into the world, she can no longer control its reception or the reactions that people have or the responses that they come up with, or the ways in which they express those responses.
I respect the copyright that prevents fans from profitting or making commercial use of published characters and stories. But when I hear that an author is trying to forbid people from writing and posting fanfic, or that they are shocked and appalled that people are writing stories set in their worlds for their own entertainment, I lose a lot of my respect, at least in this respect, for those authors.
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Date: 4/22/12 06:04 pm (UTC)In my opinion, that is its own crime.
Fanfiction is an incarnation of modern storytelling. Whether it is complimentary or critical of the original work, whether it fleshes out dim corners of stories or rearranges their angles completely, whether it awes with its insight or insults you its banality is completely irrelevant. Stories are not sacred fossils and readers are not blank pages on which authors can imprint Exactly What Happened And How You Should Think About It. The process of creating a fanwork is very similar to the process of absorbing an original work-- both are the business of being engaged in and celebrating fiction. If the former happens an active process which lends itself to the creation of communities, while the former is a more passive procedure experienced alone, I see no reason to praise one above the other-- or vilify the first in favor of the second.
So don't read fanfiction of your own work, dear authors. And don't hesitate to take action if a stray fanwork happens to exceed the all-but-universally accepted bounds of non-commerciality. But don't tell me how to experience what you have written, or how I may synthesize that experience into my own life; to those ends, your power--which I do dearly respect--simply does not extend.
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Date: 4/22/12 07:15 pm (UTC)It reminds me of the discussions my sister and I have about books. In a well-written story, we might say "I can't believe he/she just did that *insert appropriate gasp moment here* " In another book, when a character made a statement completely out of character, we discuss that saying "I can't believe the author made him/her do/say that"
When the characters have their own life, a FF can be almost like a biography of events.
Hope that actually made sense ....
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Date: 4/23/12 05:17 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 4/23/12 08:18 am (UTC)This actually occurred to me the other day. I'm an aspiring writer (I just finished a degree in creative writing). The other day a friend told me she received a drawing of one of her characters, who appears in writing and roleplaying she has published online. It occurred to me I would be just tickled pink if someone sent me something like that. Then it occurred to me that I'd probably feel the same way about fanfiction. Imagine coming across people who have not only read what you wrote, but so loved it that they want to play in the world your words created in their head. That's just awesome.
Inkasrain pointed out above that creative fanworks aren't really different from any other response to writing, like a critical essay or a review. I have to agree. One of the reasons I loved A Very Potter Musical was because it was saying things (mostly ridiculous things) about something I really love. For instance it was so obviously paying homage to the friendship that's at the heart of the books, and also making fun of some of the sillier things. I mean, I love talking about things I really love, so if other people do it for me in an entertaining way, its just doubly great. And the guy who writes "Mark Reads" wrote a piece of fanfiction that perfectly sums up my feelings on the final epilogue in Harry Potter. And reading some fanfiction has been great for suggesting other ways of thinking about the things that happen offscreen.
That said I don't tend to read fanfiction much because it doesn't really satisfy my longing to get back into whatever fictional world... I tend to think of books as places and my re-reading is mostly motivated by desire to visit whatever place again. I can never convince myself that the fanfiction is "the real place", but if it's close enough it's sort of like being painfully teased with something I really want but don't have. :-P So I'm not really motivated to seek it out for that reason. But I do enjoy it if I think of it as illuminating what someone else thought about the original or making me imagine possibilities I wouldn't have on my own, about the original. I sometimes really enjoy it in that light. And since I've tried writing it lately, I've been seeing it in that way more and more because when you're writing you're obviously completely aware of the original and the ways you're extrapolating from it, it takes a lot of thinking about what makes the original itself and is actually a good way of investigating it. It's pretty different from responding to your own creative muse. And I mean, painters are encouraged to copy famous paintings in order to learn how to paint, it was the primary teaching method for hundreds of years.
I absolutely LOVE fanart, especially of places. I can understand why it's easier for authors to accept fan works in other mediums --like art, dramatizations, videos, and writing in mediums that are really different from the original (poetry say). It's harder to see it as imitation, "passing themselves off as me" rather than "a response to something I did". No one's trying to pass themselves off as you (unless they are, which would be wrong). People are responding to what you did. Philip Pullman talks about the democracy of reading...