Gen's height

[madclairvoyant.livejournal.com]

Sorry for this random thing, but I thought it rather interesting.


In the Greenwillow edition of The Thief, page 31, there is the following passage:

We all slid to the ground, and Pol was quickly beside me with one hand firmly on my shoulder. It was an easy business for him; my shoulder came only to his chest. Sometimes it bothered me that I am so small.

This, I believe this is a rather important thing about Gen. In the olden days, people were generally not very tall, because often they do not consume the needed nutrition. Hence even as the captain of guard to the prince, I don't think that Pol would be exceptionally tall, especially because the Magus is mentioned to be taller than average, but Pol is not, and the Magus is even shorter than Irene. At least, I always got the impression that Pol was more stocky than tall. Which means that Gen is really short, like he thinks, if he only gets up to the chest of Pol; typically, the top of the head to the chest is about 30cm, or more. Therefore, if Pol is 180cm, which would be unlikely because it would mean that Irene would be very very tall, then Gen is only 150cm. This would provide us a good gauge of his rough age, unless he has a medical disorder. Thus, he probably cannot be more than thirteen, as I know that in my class of thirteen year old girls, the shortest are at least 155cm. Really, no matter how much genetics can influence us, I don't think that a fifteen or older boy would be that short.


Any thoughts?

Comments

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

If Gen's shoulder comes up to Pol's chest, I see it as a noticeable size difference, but not ginormous one. Plus, if Gen was still a child and therefore fully expecting a big growth spurt over the next few years, would he be bothered by being noticeably shorter than a fully grown man? The fact that he's bothered suggests to me that at least some other boys his age are of a similar height as Pol.

Also, boys tend to reach their adult height a lot later than teenage girls. Girls have usually finished growing by 13 or 14 - I finished at 11 - but boys don't normally finish growing until 17 or later. Although that's in the real world of nowadays, of course. In a world in which gods walk the earth, who knows? :-D

[freenarnian.livejournal.com]

I remember learning in high school that the average Roman soldier was my height (5'6"). That's pretty short for a guy, in my experience at least. So if we're assuming 5'8-9" would be considered a decent height for man in Gen's world, I could see Gen being 5'4-6" and feeling a little on the small side. That's all speculation, of course. Also, I've known more than one guy who grew as much as 2-3 inches taller after his 20th birthday, so Gen could still be growing even in KoA (if our age estimates are right). That's kind of a funny thought though, and I don't recall any mention of him looking taller in the later books. On the flip-side, there was a guy in my driver's ed class (so he would've been about 16 at the time) who was barely 5'0", and he neither came from a short family nor had any known medical conditions. He was just short! :) He maybe even looked a little like Gen...

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

155 centimeters is about 5 ft. 1 in. Correct? Well, as a twenty-one-year-old who is a quarter of an inch below 5 feet (about 150 centimeters), I can tell you that there are some very short adults, and since I wasn't my full height till I was fifteen, I was even shorter when I was thirteen. :)

Gen is actually about fifteen in TT, because we know he was ten when Helen became queen (according to the short story, Thief!) and on page 270 of TT it says in regards to Helen...

In her five-year reign she'd won the loyalty and love of her subjects.

So, that makes Gen about fifteen at the very end of TT, which would make sense that he was bothered by his small size, because boys usually hit their growth spurt at fourteen or fifteen. Irene observes in the boat scene during QoA that Gen was taller since the last time she'd seen him, and QoA covers about two years.

He'd grown, she realized. Boys did often grow in one last leap just as they became men... - QoA p-235

Therefore, Gen simply hit his growth spurt late, at about seventeen. My brother wasn't fully grown till he was twenty-one, and it's more common for boys to grow even after they're adults.

We also have to remember that the QT characters aren't exactly Caucasian. They're Greek or Roman, so the average height rules in regards to Caucasians don't apply. For example, Asian's and Hispanic's average height can differ by about as much as 6 inches or 16 centimeters from Caucasians. And having the experience of working on a reservation last year, some Native American boys in their late teens I worked with were my height or just a bit taller.

Google tells me that average height for Ancient Greek men was 5 ft. 6 in. so if Pol was average height, and Gen was several inches shorter, that would make him about 5 ft. 2 in. which is quite short for a fifteen-year-old boy. He does grow in QoA, but he's still shorter than Irene in KoA.

The queen was several inches taller than Eugenides, and he leaned back to counter her spin. KoA p-101

So, if Gen grew a few inches in QoA, and was say... now 5 ft. 5 in. and if the magus is tall and Irene is even taller, that would make her about 5 ft. 9 in. and the magus about 5 ft. 8 in. Give or take...

I like talking about this way too much... XD

(Edited to fix typos.)

[sgwordy.livejournal.com]

I don't have anything useful to add to the details already listed, I just think it's a fun coincidence that I just started re-reading The Thief last night and so read this exact passage last night and was doing all these mental calculations just last night. (so, to review, last night!)

:)

[(Anonymous)]

Irene would be rather tall then, for a woman especially, and not a Caucasian. On the other hand, I know that in a class of asian thirteen year olds, the average height is about 153cm.

Gen would have better balance and agility than average, because he has a lower center of gravity.

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

Actually, it says in TT that Attolia was as tall as the Magus.

Hmm, does Gen have a Napoleon Complex? "Named after the French Emperor Napoleon Bonaparte who was said to have compensated for his height by seeking war, power and conquest."

[pico-the-great.livejournal.com]

Hang on, though. Reread the very passage you posted:

We all slid to the ground, and Pol was quickly beside me with one hand firmly on my shoulder. It was an easy business for him; my shoulder came only to his chest. Sometimes it bothered me that I am so small.

my shoulder came only to his chest.

Gen's not head-as-high-as-Pol's-chest, he's shoulder-as-high, which means he's got at least eight inches on your estimate.

I have to add, yes, 15-year-old boys can totally be that short. Modern people in the West forget (or don't know) how much is accomplished by consistent good nutrition and medicine, and tend to assume anyone less than 5'6 is short. Check out Wikipedia on this (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_height) - 5'6 is pretty average. I'm 165cm/5'4 and living in China; my students (20/22-year-olds) average about my height, with a few glaring exceptions on either end in both genders. So, in sum, I can totes imagine Gen being 150cm at 15, and a bit taller later.

(Finally: I have nothing against imagining Gen as short, since I am one of the apparently like a dozen females ever who actually likes shorter dudes ... so uh. reader appeal :D )

[hazelwillow.livejournal.com]

I have nothing to add, except to say Gen's shortness is one of his defining physical characteristics in my imagination. Even after he grows in QoA, I still imagine him as comparatively small and lithe (only now small for a man instead of for a fifteen year old boy). And his smallness gives him an ease of motion and a grace that other people don't have.

I seem to remember a description in KoA of him and Teleus facing off, with Gen "like a cat standing its ground to the barnyard dog". (or something. too lazy to get my book). At a couple inches shorter than the Queen, he'll definitely be shorter than most of the other men around. In CoK for the first time he'd have to look up to meet Sophos's eye. (Sophos being taller than him is somehow adorable to me).