Why did Eugenides NOT want to be king?

[myng.livejournal.com]

This being the main plot point of KOA, I've always wondered this: What was the actual reason that Gen did not want to be the true King of Attolia? I mean, he spent the entire book resisting being king. Why?

As far as I can see:

1. He already is king in name and there's no turning back and he knows that.

2. He cannot NOT be king as he wants to stay married to the queen. And he acknowledges this too (as stated when he told Costis that he's afraid that the gods will take it away from him if they knew how much he hated to be king).

3. He is already doing all that an actual king would do, albeit behind the scenes e.g. ridding Attolia of Baron Erondites, reducing the Guard etc etc.

So why? Is he:

1. Afraid of the power, afraid that he'd take away her sovereignty, as the queen said (to Ornon, I think)? But if Ornon, Eddis, Irene, EVERYONE ...could see that it is in Attolia's (and even Eddis') best interest to have a true and powerful King of Attolia, then why can't Gen see it? That cannot be the true reason. Unless of course he sees things differently from the rest of them. Which cannot be true either for, ultimately, he DID finally accept being king.

2. Thinking that if he pretends to be inept, he has more leeway to manipulate behind the scenes because the whole of Attolia underestimates him? But this cannot be entirely true either as we know from the book that he truly is resisting being king and being unhappy about having to be king.

This all leads me to the final question: Why did he ultimately accept being king?

Was the Guard's loyalty and respect all it took to turn him around? Was he waiting to be accepted to be a true king before he wanted to become one? That was the reason he manipulated Costis? To gain the respect of Costis, then Teleus, then the Guard etc. before he sits on the throne proper? Then why was he rueful about his acceptance? And as mentioned earlier, we do get the indication that he truly resisted being king, despite pursuasion from all quarters.

I thought I knew what was going on but after reading KOA at least 5-6 times now, frankly, I just don't get it anymore. I think this book is fascinating, it actually got MORE complicated the more times I read it. Love it love it love it.

I hope someone could help me out with their theories as I just can't seem to figure it out. Maybe I'm making things more complicated, who knows.

:)

Comments

[rain-ing.livejournal.com]

I think there is a difference between being a king by proxy and being king and ruling a country. Eugenides knew that he would eventually have to step up to rule Attolia, but his reluctance made him resist it for as long as he could. I don't think he was ignorant of the fact that the best interest of everyone was for him to be king, but he didn't want to, so what you read is mostly a clash between what he wants and what he knows he has to be.

I don't see it as appearing inept so that he can manipulate behind the scenes, but more of appearing inept because if people saw him as king it would accelerate the process of him actually being king.

In my opinion, the things he does are more to protect the position of the queen, but what he does for the queen will ultimately be for the country, so there's a fine line between doing stuff behind the scenes to protect the throne and commanding the country as king.

If Eugenides wanted the respect of the guard he could have gotten it instantaneously if he wanted to, but if he wanted to gain the respect of the guard he would have to convince them that he was king, and to do that he had to actually be king and display his competence. The significance of getting the guard's loyalty was that if he could get the guard to respect him, he could essentially gain anyone's respect.

And with regards to your final question, I think Gen accepted that he ultimately would have to be king, and not so much ultimately accepting kingship. The book chronicles his transformation from stealthy thief to king.

I have a feeling I confused you further..

Another query

[myng.livejournal.com]

No, you make a lot of sense actually and you put it across very clearly too. Your explanation has a lot of depth and the analysis is very convincing. I don't think I could have put it across any better even if I understood it the way you did in the first place. You're very good, indeed! Thanks for making this so much clearer.

Which leads me to the next thing that's been nagging me about the book. The story which Phresine told Gen when he was convalescing. What was the significance actually? Costis couldn't understand why Gen got increasingly distressed as the story progressed and while I could see certain parallels in the story, I have this feeling that the story went much deeper than I could comprehend. Was the story about choice? About integrity? About not being false about who you are? Hmm?

Re: Another query

[willow-41z.livejournal.com]

I always thought that Gen was the slave and Irene was the prince, and the parallel was that Gen had to save Irene from herself and the stone walls like the slave had to save the prince from lying.

Of course, that's rather tenuous.

Re: Another query

[rain-ing.livejournal.com]

i have another opinion of this though.

"when you fail, and failure is inevitable, you pay the penalty"

i think Eugenides was getting increasingly distressed because he thought that the prince was going to fail and the penalty would be severe, and he saw the parallels between that and his own penalty - the loss of his hand, and thus was upset at the pending consequences that would befall the prince.

Re: Another query

[jadelennox]

I never actually gave the story that much significance as necessarily teaching a lesson. Perhaps because I couldn't see what the lesson was, I just took Gen at face value when he said he wanted a story with a happy ending, especially one which involves the will of the gods.

[bluestalking.livejournal.com]

I always thought that it came down to something pretty simple: freedom. Gen's entire mode of being up until now has allowed it. Until now, even though he's smart enough to do things carefully, he has had the luxery of being carefully foolish. The entire first book is proof of that: he's being brilliant the whole way through, but all of it hinges on the fact that he put himself into prison on the mere chance that they'd take him out again. It's a huge risk, as is walking on turrets, or climbing around in people's megarons. He does it well, but that doesn't mean it's not foolhardy.

Once he steps up as king, and the people see him as king, he can't do that. His decisions mean a hell of a lot more to a great many more people. He's enjoyed being reckless and responsible only for himself; once he's a proper king, he has to account for more than himself. He's constrained, because there's a lot more at stake--and while Gen can be selfish, I think the idea that he could ruin other people's lives frightens him. Again, in the first book--being forced to killed the Attolian guard upset him horribly. He doesn't want to control people's lives, which is why he isn't a soldier. Being king puts him in control of others' fates whether or not he's holding a sword. It's very much on his mind in KoA: "My pardon is not a matter of civil pleasantry, Costis. My pardon is a very real thing these days." (6) Later this change of status is important again, when he visits Relius and say that HE CAN DO ANYTHING HE WANTS. As the Thief, when he only has himself for power, that is not so frightening--it's brash, but not nearly so terrifying as the thought of a king saying it. Being king, he loses the power to say that without it being an awful threat instead of a tantrum.

One other thing that gets pointed out is that he is not used to being the center of attention in this way. When he was younger, he was something of a court diversion. When he came back from Attolia, he basically spent two years loathing every dinner function he went to. He hates being paraded, more now than he did before his hand, and more than ever when he's being paraded in front of people who hate him, far away from home. I think it's Ornon who points out to Irene that, being a thief, all of his best work has been done in silence and solitude. Asking him to lead from a court is taking on a whole different stage completely antithetical to his training. So it might be said that working behind the scenes was the only way he could handle it. He comes into the open when he has to, but he would far prefer to remain the shadowy figure in the temple under the river, or listening in on the conspiracy room.

And you can't do that--at least, not only that-- if you're king.

Becoming a real king is a huge change to the way he lives, and he rather liked the old way. And from QoA:

"I knew I had to be king. I just didn't think about it."

"All those clothes," Eddis remarked thoughtfully. "Ceremonies. Duties. Obligations."

"People staring at me," Eugenides said. "All the time." (247 USA)

It's a hard knock.

(I think this comment is getting out of control.)

[avian-xj.livejournal.com]

very well said :)

He's enjoyed being reckless and responsible only for himself; once he's a proper king, he has to account for more than himself. He's constrained, because there's a lot more at stake--and while Gen can be selfish, I think the idea that he could ruin other people's lives frightens him.

I think that's right on target. Gen can still do anything he wants. He just has to account for it a whole lot more.

[peggy-2.livejournal.com]

That was an excellent analysis. Very well done.

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

Myng, I think you are right on target with your thoughts on why Gen avoided being king as long as he could. Throw in the fact that he probably forsees that the decisions he makes as king will tear him apart once they begin affecting the lives of thousands of Attolians and Eddisians, and you see that his fear of the position is justified. He had promised Irene that she would rule. He quickly saw that this wouldn't be possible and that she--and the country--needed him to rule, but he had to reconcile himself to the idea.

As far as the story, I thought he was distressed when it began turing into the tale of a man who was going to be punished by the gods for not upholding his part of a bargain he'd made with them.

[myng.livejournal.com]

(I replied to this earlier but I don't know why it didn't show.)

>>As far as the story, I thought he was distressed when it began turing into >>the tale of a man who was going to be punished by the gods for not >>upholding his part of a bargain he'd made with them.

Anyway, I was saying that I agree with your interpretation of the story, especially when combined with what Feir Dearig said below.

So Gen with his loyal Guard is now like Klimun, who had loyal Gerosthenes to watch his back by virtue of him being a good king all along. And the gods would not judge him wanting.

[adalanne.livejournal.com]

I basically agree with what everyone else has said. ^_^ Gen's a kid and a thief. Throw the responsibility of whole nations at a kid and he's going to want to shy away from that. And as a thief, he was used to working out of the public eye. He could present any face to the public, but be a completely different person when it came to his job. He even tried to do that as a king, but it didn't work. He realized it wasn't working and he realized that being a king was nothing like being a thief. Well, being a good king. ^_^

As for the loyalty, I think he was rueful because it meant he was becoming the king he knew he should, and while part of him knows this is good and necessary, the boy thief in him still just wants to run away.

[(Anonymous)]

About the story...I thought it was simply that even though the main guy, can't remember his name, almost lied, his friend helped him. And the point was that his friend helped him so he didn't have to be on top of his game all the time, because there was somebody to help him now, the slave what's-his-name.

[(Anonymous)]

Klimun and Gerosthenes.

I agree with you all, and really like your analysis (analyses?)

~Feir Dearig

[myng.livejournal.com]

All of you make a lot of sense indeed, even though some of the opinions were very diverse. I'm really glad I asked. It's great to have such a community to discuss the implications of the books...I wouldn't have enjoyed it as much otherwise, without getting to read about others' points of view. Thanks everyone!

[jyms.livejournal.com]

everyone's already answered it so well...^^
my first thought was Gen didn't want the responsiblity, then later after reading the comments i figured what i was thinking about was 'freedom'.

Another Take

[idiosyncreant.livejournal.com]

Remember when he lets slip that he fears if the gods know how much he wants it...then he admits the wine is working for truth, but not what he wants?
There's a jinxing fear in him, above the whole freedom vs. power thing.
I think the Phresine story was more about the Goddess's ability to be blind in the favor of men as well as in disfavor. And that a man who has quality will build a protection around him beyond his own effort, which is what Gen hasn't achieved yet in Attolia, though clearly in QoA he did in Eddis. I agree with the other interpretations, though.
I don't think Gen promised Irene the rule. I think that's the exact opposite of what she wanted from him, from the very moment they married. Remember the coin? She smiles. And at the end, he bows and calls her his queen, she's very confirming in the way she responds "My King". That's what the bet was, involving Teleus' guard.
Then again, this last was only my fourthish reading...I'm open to correction. (^_^)

Re: Another Take

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

I don't think Gen promised Irene the rule.

When Gen kidnapped Irene in the boat, he told her she would rule and he wouldn't interfere. She told Relius that on their wedding night Gen said he wouldn't diminish her power or rule over her country. She, as you say, wanted him to rule by the time they married.

a man who has quality will build a protection around him beyond his own effort, which is what Gen hasn't achieved yet in Attolia, though clearly in QoA he did in Eddis.

Good point. I hadn't thought of that.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, I'm a bit late to the party (away for Thanksgiving), but I wanted to say, about Phresine's story: I think Costis is in a sense hitting Eugenides over the head with the amphora when he makes him show himself in front of the guards. BUT one of the things I love about these myths-within-the-story is that they aren't simple parallels. They're like REAL myths -- open to many interpretations.
-Philia