A Writerly Dissertation...

[idiosyncreant.livejournal.com]

in hopelessly fannish realms of thought.

Truth is, I'm currently obsessing over "point of view" in narrative, because I'm juggling it in my own writing. But this is all Thief, Queen, King-dom I promise.

I recently was pondering that both QoA and KoA are not written in Gen's voice. That was something that made The Thief so stellar, so delicious. I have inklings about why that is (which I'll post and try to put under a cut below) but what are your opinions on that? Why isn't Gen telling his story anymore? Is it a loss?

I guess the first story is put up as Eugenides's written account to Eddis.
And in some sense, the mystery of not knowing what Gen is up to is kept more in-the-now because we don't see everything that's going on. Obviously, KoA is all about what Costis is seeing, and how he's blindsided by the king's cleverness. But I loved the way Gen was telling the story, but not the whole story, and only unravels it all at the end of the Thief. There is a thrill to hearing it all over again to. I'm reading it aloud to my little brothers, after reading it aloud to my little sister, after rereading it myself all in the last six months, and I'm still laughing over ways we're slyly told what's visible and kept from seeing what's going on.

But [whines] I miss his voice!

I would love to have another story in his POV. Unfortunately, I'm too respectful of the writer to go lobbying for my wants in further installments.

Interested in what the other bookish people about have to say on this. To not put too fine a point on it. (^_^)

Thanks!

Comments

[adalanne.livejournal.com]

Well, with QoA, if Gen had been the narrator, we would have known where he was psychologically, and planning-wise, and so something like the wonderful moment where Gen confronts the Magus in Sounis would be completely ruined. In KoA, much the same thing, but even more so because this was a story about not only Gen coming to terms with being king but the people of Attolia coming to terms with it as well. That's why Costis was so key because MWT could use him as a go-between, in the same way as Gen did.

Both books, of course, would have been entirely different if written from Gen's POV, and I'm quite glad MWT made the choices she did. (We would miss so much if we only saw it through Gen! Especially his expressions and child-becoming-a-man-ness.)

But I did so love Gen's voice as well. That's actually why I refused to read QoA, until I discovered that KoA was out and so that there must be at least some merit in the books. I was pleasantly surprised to find I could still love them out of Gen's POV.

[idiosyncreant.livejournal.com]

Me, too...
I grumbled my way through the whole of QoA, and then promptly forgot I read it. I do not forget reading things! Awful. KoA changed my mind. I went back to read QoA, totally forgetting I'd read it until I got to the end, and my brother told me this. And then went rejoicing to the pages of the third book!
I hadn't thought of the parallel between Gen's usage of Costic and MWT's. That's intriguing. Thanks for pointing that out!
{PS: I don't know how to say this. But, what happens if I steal your icon concept? And what happens if I blackmail you into telling me how to do it, or at least making me one? ^_^)

[aged-crone.livejournal.com]

I like the fact that the stories aren't all told by Gen. Especially as he becomes more and more impressive and powerful, some of it would sound monumentally self-centered and arrogant if it were he who reported it, even if it were at all possible for him to do so. In QoA, for example, he wouldn't be able to describe Attolia's thoughts and feelings, and a large part of the story would be lost. And in KoA - "I lay there looking like a god with the gold bedcover surrounding me" (I can't remember the exact quote); or "I listened at the door after I had left the room, and heard Teleus say, 'He will be an Annux - a king of kings.'"

That's apart from the fact that some of the startling plot twists wouldn't be nearly as startling if Gen were telling it. (Of course, some of them wouldn't have been so startling if I hadn't read KoA first).

[idiosyncreant.livejournal.com]

Hah...
"I lay there looking like a god"...
Awesome. I think I want to go try this for myself.
For amusement.
You're right, though, he's not THAT arrogant! Monumentally arrogant is the way to put that, you've hit upon the exact right phrase, there.
KoA has such a gorgeous cover, I wouldn't be surprised if I was seduced myself, though I'm a stickler for starting at the beginning. Sigh. I'm so glad I bought myself a copy. It gives me cover-envy hives, but it's something to work toward, deserving such cover brilliance.

[rowana.livejournal.com]

The Thief did prove that Gen could be used as a narrator without giving the whole surprise ending away - he doesn't have to be telling us everything all along. I agree, I think that was what really drew us into his character in The Thief, the ability to see all events through his eyes, with his throughts as a running commentary.

That said, I agree with Adalanne and Leslie. QoA and KoA have to be told from his eyes, I don't think Gen could have told any of the events in QoA to quite the same poignancy, and telling the events of KoA from his POV would have been tricky, and may have made him seem arrogant. We may well have gained other things out of his POV, but nothing that we didn't really gen in The Thief, and I think Megan does an excellent job of still allowing us to see Gen's snarky comments through his speech.

I would love to have another story in his POV. Unfortunately, I'm too respectful of the writer to go lobbying for my wants in further installments.

I feel thoroughly disrespectful now, because I think we did so. We sent of a letter to Megan back in March, and I think a possible sequel from Gen's POV may have been one of the questions. Though I could be wrong on this. :)

[idiosyncreant.livejournal.com]

Oh, no. I don't mean lobbying for a SEQUEL is bad. Just lobbying for it to be in his POV.
Where do I sign for the demand-to-deliver?

Heh. I know she wants to, so it's more a question of....

HURRY UP! -P

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

Well, I've mentioned my theory before, but I guess I can trot it out again and bore you all... I feel as if there is a progression in Gen's story, a journey that he takes from (apparently) ordinary thief to legendary figure. And (to repeat myself) that's part of what the stories-within-stories are about, to show us that Gen is becoming someone that tales will be told about -- a hero, a legend, almost godlike. So to me it feels entirely appropriate that the audience is removed a little more from Gen's head with every book. First we hear his voice (though even then he hides things from us). Then we hear a narrator's voice but still visit his thoughts. Then we see him from the eyes of someone who doesn't know him at all. All the while Gen is becoming more and more a public figure, someone who in a sense belongs to other people.
Two other practical points. A good portion of QoA is really about the title character! What I find extraordinary about that book is how the author makes us hate the Queen,then slowly, slowly wins us over until we're rooting for her desperately by the end. I don't think that could have been accomplished from Gen's point of view. And KoA is, in a sense, all about changing someone's mind. How to appreciate that if you don't see the unchanged mind to start with?
Or maybe ALL the books are about changing someone's mind...

[idiosyncreant.livejournal.com]

Now that's something I didn't think of.
Very good point! Since I'm new here, I'm glad you brought it forth again.

You know what we need? We need a Sophos-POV novel. Why haven't I struck on this before?

I do miss being personally fooled, still. Even if each other is it's own delight, I'm a bit of a voice-addict. I'm compiling a long list of favorites with similar, flash-rogue-with-a-heart-of-gold characters to study and distill into my own version. Like Howl, of Howl's Moving Castle. (Great book, by the way! Diane Wynne Jones. And nice anime, too.) Puck, of Midsummer Night's Dream--Robin Hood--Artemis Fowl (sort of)--Peter Pan....
I would love recommendations for this, too.

[adalanne.livejournal.com]

Nice points. And I've never considered the books as a progression to Gen as a legend; I'll definitely have that in mind next time I read them.

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

I think I've said this one before, too, but I also like that the different narrators make each book a unique experience. It's not "Gen and the Magic Stone," "Gen and the Missing Hand" followed by "Gen and the Attolian Guard." Each book has a very distinct, stand-alone flavor, which to me raises it out of the common herd of series books.

[mercurial-rain.livejournal.com]

I agree! *cough cough Harry Potter cough*

[bluestalking.livejournal.com]

XD...those titles....

[stubefied-by-gd.livejournal.com]

Okay, so it is three years later and I wasn't going to comment on the old posts, but I just found this and am laughing out loud so bad. "Gen and the Missing Hand." Oh noes! Where did it go?

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

One of the reasons Thief is so marvelous is because although it is entirely Eugenides's book (there really are only 5 characters and Gen is always in the action) it manages to fool us so completely. We are *Costis*--we meet Gen and he is annoying and silly, so we underestimate him. And, as Philia said so well, each book is about changing someone's mind.

In Queen we needed to see things that were going on outside of Gen and Eddis, so the book was told from multiple POVs. There was some criticism of that when the book was published, but as Philia said, we needed to become sympathetic to Attolia and couldn't do so from her actions, which were pretty brutal throughout. We had to hear her thoughts. I think the dual POV worked well, and would like to see that again (or more of it; we did see it a bit in King).

By King, we know Gen too well to be fooled and can take delight in Costis and the others seeing him for the first time, knowing that Gen will prevail in the end.

I just noticed your icon. Very nice. :)

[idiosyncreant.livejournal.com]

I agree with everyone; it's fun to hear everyone's takes on this!
My second reading of the Queen, I definitely gave it more credit, and yes...I loved seeing Gen. It's still my least favorite (so dark and uncomfortable! I know it's awesome, but I'm a wuss) which is not a very low least, by any means. But I love seeing him in the eyes of Eddis and Attolia, which is what it amounts to.
I do think we could be fooled again, even if we are seeing through Gen's eyes. (Wait a minute...is this what fan-fic is for? Aha.) But yes, I think the likelihood is small. So I will continue to bask in the Thief.
I like the icon, too; it's the first one I made myself. It's my bit of subtle pressure on the world at large to provide us with another sequel, I think. The words are small, though.

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

Go Jane Eyre!

[rowana.livejournal.com]

Nice icon checkers. :D

[mercurial-rain.livejournal.com]

icon love!

I've yet to read the book too, tell me how it goes!

By the way, 1006 pages of Jonathan Strange is nothing! Nothing! :P (because it's really interesting, I can't even get past a 100 pages of Emma though)

[crazyviolin.livejournal.com]

Well everything else has been said, but I'm all for a Sophos POV. Let's ignore the whole Attolia thing and have an entire story about Sophos from the time of being kidnapped by rebels to being rescued by Gen and Costis. I can picture it already... 'It was a bit of a surprise when Gen abandoned his country and new scary wife and came to rescue me with some random soldier guy.'

[bluestalking.livejournal.com]

Oh man, that would be something. But now of course I'm suffering Sophos anxiety. Where issss heeee? If he dies I will be utterly stricken. I adore Sophos.

[revelininsanity.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure if Sophos was kidnapped by rebels. It almost looked to me like he was leading them.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree with you. There is somthing special about Gen's voice. I love how he keeps you on your toes not telling you the whole story about anything....

but in a way I also found the 3rd person in QoA (i havn't read KoA yet) interesting too. You see Gen from others point of view more and I enjoy hearing more about Eddis.

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

Interesting. I think I'm in the minority. I am not a huge of first person PoV generally. I think it's beautifully done in Thief, and I especially like that the story turns out to be a book Eugenides wrote at the urging of Eddis. But I am happy that the books switch viewpoints.

[idiosyncreant.livejournal.com]

I just read that the other day (to my sibs) and realized...
"He's so totally showing off for Eddis!"
Of course, that's how the surprise is maintained for the reader, but if anything, isn't that Gen like? To want to impress her with his slyness through the whole thing.

[bluestalking.livejournal.com]

I always put QoA down to, it would be a horrible story to tell in first person--that is, horrifying things happen, and the distance of the third person keeps it from getting too painful. Not to mention, it is about the Queen of Attolia, not just about Gen; you need her somewhat veiled perspective to make it about anything but him.

As for KoA, I thought that choice was very clever and entirely reasonable. What is the whole point of the book? The dawning realization of the Attolians that, far from an incompetent, Gen is brilliant. By putting it into dear literal Costis's perspective, we and he and the overall plot figure out what's going on at the same time. Not to mention, we get that splendid outside view of Gen and Irene, which you just couldn't get from one of their perspectives. (Plus, Costis is darling.)

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

I always put QoA down to, it would be a horrible story to tell in first person--that is, horrifying things happen, and the distance of the third person keeps it from getting too painful.

Good point. I hadn't thought about that but you are right. It was difficult enough hearing Gen cry through Attolia's ears, but experiencing it first person would have been devastating.