Revelations from an Idiot

[jade-sabre-301.livejournal.com]

So I'm reading this book called Mélusine, which is very good and which I would place in the YA category for its focus (the scope of the world is broad, but the focus is very character-specific), but is definitely not for people under 16 due to language and other non-niceties that show up in fiction.  Anyway, recently one of the characters was, shall we say, crippled.  Getting this from his POV was painful.  I did not want him to be crippled.  He did not want to be crippled.  This whole crippled business sucks.  He's having a heck of a difficulty getting back to doing what he normally does.  And I appreciate it from a character and literary standpoint, but it really, really sucks, because he didn't do nothing wrong (what a lie that was), and he's a decent guy, and--

Then I said to myself, "Oh."

And it occurred to me that this must be what gets to people about The Queen of Attolia.

Okay, now I have to explain myself.  As some of you may know, I first met Eugenides through randomly picking The Queen of Attolia off the shelf in my school library because I needed to write a book review for the school newspaper.  I liked it well enough the first time through, and a few months later I found The Thief and read it and liked it too.  Then I went back to QoA and it was like the lightbulb in my head went on, was made out of steel, and bashed me upside the head and it was LOVE.

But for me, Gen getting his hand cut off always had happened, and was going to happen, and had to happen.  When I first found the books, Gen getting his hand cut off was the starting point of the plot.  It was a story about a thief who got his hand cut off and had to deal, and a queen with severe emotional starvation, and the politics between their countries.  Even when I went back and reread TT and reread QoA a second time, I was never--I mean, it sucked that Gen lost his hand, but that was what happened.  It wasn't like this was a character I had read a great deal about and come to love when he was whole and healthy, and then I had to deal with the hand as much as he did.

So, um, I guess my question/discussion thought is--what about everyone else?  Was your view of the hand-cut-off thing skewed by the order in which you read the books?  Is it based on which book is your favorite?  Does your perspective of it affect how you view the characters (especially Attolia)?  Did anyone else feel like me, or am I just an unsympathetic freak?

Comments

[rowana.livejournal.com]

I see what you mean Jade - I remember being fairly upset (though not quite upset enough to write Megan an angry letter :D). I think, in a way, whenever you read a book that you're emotionally invested in, though having a character wounded or killed as you said, really sucks, you sort of accept it as the truth of the matter and carry on reading because the story and the characters are still too lovely not to. All the same - the bit where Gen is laid on the floor by one of the Attolian soldiers who brought him back was horribly poignant.

I think the beautifully orchestrated ending, and events along the way, also helped to even the balance in my eyes. Attolia ends up feeling truly sorry, which in the end, is the greatest thing that anyone wronged by someone they love wants, I think. Even if that's not the case, by the end they seem fairly even - Gen seemed to have as much (if not more) than he had before he lost his hand.

But I agree - I think people who've read QoA or even KoA first won't be affected by the hand chopping in the same way as those who read 'The Thief' first.

[jade-sabre-301.livejournal.com]

And part of it is--the chopping bit happens what, three chapters into the book? You don't have time to become emotionally invested in Gen. You have a glimpse of him--straining and screaming, and smiling at Attolia--but it's more a "oh, this is the main character" and "gee, I wouldn't want my hand cut off either" (not quite so glib, but you know). So it really is less of a character thing than it is a plot thing, and the plot evolves from there.

That's very true. And you come to love Gen along the way, and so you're upset on his behalf that his hand got cut off, but at the same time you see how things end up and then it's okay, you know?

Oh man. Reading KoA--with his hand cut off already an established point--would be even less affecting, because by then so much of his character is wrapped up in his one-handed-ness. In QoA he's still learning and adjusting to it, but by KoA it's a fact of life. Hm...

[fabricalchemist.livejournal.com]

>P

[rowana.livejournal.com]

:D I thought that would lure you out.

*glomps to say sorry*

[fabricalchemist.livejournal.com]

*glomps back*

So totally unfair =PP

[willow-41z.livejournal.com]

But I agree - I think people who've read QoA or even KoA first won't be affected by the hand chopping in the same way as those who read 'The Thief' first.

I dunno. I was pretty horrified and sickened. The opening lured me in by making me think it was a kids' book, and then it abruptly wasn't. I honestly don't remember why I finished it the first time, but I remember thinking Gen was some sort of masochist. But I also remember staying up late to finish it and rereading the ending (though I think that was the second time I got it from the library).

[adalanne.livejournal.com]

Well, I read TT years before even knowing QoA existed. I loved TT, and so when I found out QoA was a sequel, I read the first couple pages on Amazon, and vowed never to read any more. Mainly I was pissed off that it was in third person, and I was terrified that it would ruin the book I held so dear.

But then KoA came out, and they wouldn't make a third if the second wasn't good, so I decided to bite the bullet and read it. I was prepared to hate it. And then Gen had his hand cut off.

And I was in love. Seriously, MWT had me awed and amazed. That her world had consequences and not nice people and beloved protagonists that could actually get severely hurt, I mean, that was amazing and wonderful. And it was SUCH a good plot-starter.

As for Irene, I admired her for cutting Gen's hand off. Here was a queen who did not throw out empty threats; she was willing to do what she knew needed to be done to demonstrate her power. But I fell in love with her right after the incident, when I saw how much she regretted it. The amphora metaphor, seriously, I can't love that enough.

QoA is my least favorite of the trilogy, but not because of the hand. The hand is a big reason why it's still fairly high on my favorite books list. To me, the hand cutting was amazing and showed that MWT had a wonderful and real sense of plot. And it allowed Gen to grow in so many ways. So yeah, there's no other way it could be. ^_^

[cabin-boy.livejournal.com]

I read The Thief first, many years before Queen of Attolia- and I think that is what got to me about QoA *exactly.*

I loved Gen because of The Thief. He was magnificent and devious and intelligent beyond belief; he was just beyond the mortal realm of awesome and I was convinced no harm could possibly come to him unless he planned it all himself. But somehow, horrible, horrible things do happen to him and he falls in the love with the horrible, horrible person who did them to him. x.x It was difficult to take in, for me. I had trouble reconciling with Attolia, and QoA stands as my least favorite of the three.

So, in my case at least, you are completely right. I will have to look into picking up Mélusine, anyway, though, because it sounds interesting and I am a glutton for punishment. XD

[jade-sabre-301.livejournal.com]

It's really funny, because I suddenly got why people wouldn't like QoA. 'cause I knew people didn't like Attolia that much, and weren't fond of QoA, and it was because Gen got his hand cut off--but I never quite saw the perspective of how unhappy that could make you.

As for Melusine, the beginning of it is a bit slow. It's told from two different first-person POVs, and in the beginning it focuses on the one that I don't like (which I plan on ranting about once I finish it, which should be...today! if I read enough during my work breaks XD). But after that it picks up amazingly well. Bit confusing, but the different POVs are so well-written and the voices of the characters are so clear that you can't help but get sucked in. *huggles Mildmay*

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

I think you're probably right about the order in which you read them. I read Thief first, and when I first picked up QoA, it was an emotional roller coaster, from "Ooh, look, a second book!" to "No! No! No! he can't lose his hand!" (which I think has to do not only with Gen being beloved, but being so wonderfully tricky and skilled, and therefore someone we live through vicariously, because we want to be that smart) to "Oh no, that can't POSSIBLY happen!" (that was after I flipped to the end to see if it came out all right) to "I have to find out how that happens!" to "This is the most stunningly brilliant book I've ever read!"

Because QoA is, I think, my favorite (though I hate to choose, and maybe KoA is my favorite, too). And what is most brilliant about it, in my opinion, is not that MWT was willing to put her protagonist in such a bad place, but that she could begin the book by making us hate hate hate one of the characters (whom Gen had already prepared us to hate in Thief -- that may be another reason people who read Thief first might not love Attolia) and end up making us root for that character, whether we love her or not.

[estarria.livejournal.com]

I'm in the same boat as you are Jade -- I read QoA first, on a whim. Just saw it in the library and thought it looked interesting, had no idea there was a prequel. I read the edition with the giant hand on the cover, so I had already guessed what might happen to Eugenides by the time it got there, and just thought of it as a plot point.

I hadn't ever thought about it that way (people getting attached to Gen and being horrified when the master thief lost his hand), but that's a good point. And I can think of some books I've read where the protagonist suffered greatly and it made me feel rather sick. One of my other favorite series has a section where the main character gets tortured, and I always skip that part when I reread it.

[meltintall3.livejournal.com]

I started with The Thief, having been told to read in order. I went immediately from Thief to Queen of Attolia and sniffled and cried for about half the book, but I couldn't put it down.

And then I was finished, and it was awesome, and I couldn't imagine it working any other way.

I guess I just read fast enough that by the time the real shock had sunk in I had an explanation.


But I will admit to having to read that particular scene at least a couple of times when I first encountered it, just to be absolutely sure that what I thought had just happened had, to see if there wasn't another way to read it.

[emmaco.livejournal.com]

This was pretty much my experience too. Loved Gen from the first book, was shocked and disbelieving in the second but soon enough had finished QoA and realised its awesomeness :)

[karatelunch.livejournal.com]

Word. That was also my exact reaction.

I read TT about a year and a half before QoA, and I was still gobsmacked by that book. I think it's a masterpiece.

[fizzko.livejournal.com]

I read The Thief when I was about twelve, and I first read QoA when I was around thirteen or fourteen, I think. I remember being shocked and rereading the part where he gets his hand cut off a few times, just out of disbelief and horror. I felt like I was personally hurt by that. (Reading that part is still almost as traumatic for me, no matter how many times I read it. XD) I think it is that I just got very attached to Gen, and very convinced of his ability to escape punishment. I can definitely see how reading QoA first would make Gen losing his hand a lot less...uh, personal, maybe?

Initially I hated Attolia's guts, as I think a lot of people did, and even when the book ended, I had not quite forgiven her or warmed up to her at all. As I got older I guess I understood her reasons better and was able to sympathize with her. Now she's one of my absolute favorite characters. I thinking reading QoA first would have made me more likely to sympathize with her earlier though, since I would not have known Gen as well and probably would not have been so violently opposed to her because of what she did to him.

Sorry, this comment jumped around quite a lot, and I don't think I even got close to answering your question. Um, um, sorry. XD It's a really interesting post, though. And I'll have to check out Mélusine. (Thanks for the title! :D)

[avian-xj.livejournal.com]

I'm sure you're not an unsympathetic freak, Jade, but I cried for a good few minutes before I could see well enough to read the page again when I realized Gen's hand had REALLY just been cut off. At that point I was thinking about how this was gonna be one of those sequels that totally ruins the first book(KoA wasn't published at the time) BUT by the time i finished, i had more of a grudging 'ah, fine, i guess if he had to lose a hand this was the best way ever possible to do it' kind of opinion which, after a little thought turned into a 'hm... wow, this author really is a genius... awesome!' opinion :P I can see how it must have been a lot easier for you/anyone who read QoA before TT to accept it because you didn't really know what to expect of Gen yet and could accept whatever was thrown at you at that point.

but really. QoA is genius. I couldn't have stopped after he lost his hand even if i wanted to

[rj-anderson.livejournal.com]

I read all the books in order, but I didn't actually warm to The Thief at first. I didn't dislike Gen, I just didn't fall in love with him, or MWT's world, right away. But I decided to give QoA a chance even though I hadn't been that thrilled by the first book, and as soon as Gen got his hand chopped off I went, "Hot diggity! This author plays for keeps!" and his story became suddenly much more interesting to me.

As I see it, wisecracking thieves (even well-written ones like Gen in the first book) are a dime a dozen in fantasy literature, but a maimed thief who has to find other ways to steal -- and steal much less tangible things, like peace and the heart of the Queen who crippled him -- well, now, that is interesting.

But when it comes to being utterly devastated by authorial cruelty to their characters -- well, I cut my teeth on Bujold and Dorothy Dunnett, so even though what MWT did to Gen was indeed harsh, I've been through much the same or worse with Miles and Lymond.

[filkferengi]

The way this post phrased the main question reminded me of the scene in _Komarr_, when the son of the former prime minister is asked whether seeing his parents on tv gave him a strange view of them. He replied that it gave him a strange view of tv.

Some writers will put their characters through meat-grinders just for the grinding. Great writers show the characters working through the grinder & coming out the other side. Not everyone can show beloved characters being shaken to their foundations & having to rebuild and pull it off as brilliantly as Turner or Bujold. Those who can, are treasure beyond price.

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

*Miles love*

[rosaleeluann.livejournal.com]

I don't really remember my reaction. I don't really remember much of QoA at all, really. Because I, um, lost it not long after I finished reading. And, um, I haven't found it yet. And, um, I really really need to re-read. Gah.

[idiosyncreant.livejournal.com]

I had read the Thief a lot, for years before I saw QoA.
I can't remember if I was 15, or 18 (different trips back to the US ^_^) when I read QoA the first time.

But I do know this: I blanked it out of my memory.

I found it at my library a couple of years ago and went: "Ooh! There's a sequel!" To read it and discover I remembered it. All the way to the end. At first I just figured I hadn't gone past the loss of the hand, but I'd read it to the end, and felt dispassionate about it: I was in post-traumatic shock, maybe.
The second time, because I was ready to love Attolia, I got so heart-strung into it, I reread it. And THEN there was King of Attolia! On the little town library's bookshelf that hadn't had any MWT books before!

[emerald-happy.livejournal.com]

I read The Thief first and then a year later, QoA. I wanted to know whether there was a sequel so read everything on the internet about QoA - spoilers and all. And found out his hand gets chopped off. My first reaction was to turn Attolia into some evil, evil woman and want to huggle Gen. I read QoA for the first time in my Mum's office( - she dragged me in to help her do filing. How unfair is that?) and felt really really in a daze/shocked when i read it because I'd looked forward to it for so long. But because of the ending and after several rereads I started to understand Irene and their relationship. I got to admire Irene so hugely and see her as a person. Reading KoA helped this picture even more and you could see Gen was reconciled with the loss of his hand.

He says he's a poor king with one hand but the gods know he'd not be king if he had both.

[willow-41z.livejournal.com]

He says he's a poor king with one hand but the gods know he'd not be king if he had both.

And I wonder if Attolia would feel more threatened by him? But no, she knows him well enough to know that he's still quite powerful and capable.

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

Like Jade, I read QoA first and didn't really even know Gen at all when his hand was cut off. I just knew that the book grabbed me from the start as few have. I had read a booktalk about QoA that spoiled me about the hand so I wasn't even surprised.

But by the end of the book--you know when the mystery goddess asks Gen what he would give to have his hand back? I was so attached to him by then that I remember thinking, just for a moment, that even though it would be a huge cop-out and horribly trite, how happy I'd be for him if his hand were magically restored.

Queen is my favorite book. I didn't really forgive Attolia until KoA. I wasn't sure how she would treat him. Now I'm convinced she is the only one for Gen.

[scottykarrde.livejournal.com]

(nice presentation of post, Jade. Beautiful writing.)

Oh, yes, KoA! Well, I was so enthralled by the sneak ending in Thief, I cheated and read the Amazon blurbs and discovered Gen and Irene's marriage BEFORE I read of any hand-chopping. So that kind of ruined the nuances for me - think of it, everything seems rather heavy handed (no pun intended) if you're reading romance (of which there is a debatable amount, on Irene's part) into everything. It took me a few rereads to really appreciate the details.

But the HAND! goodness, I remember looking for "the trick". You know, the part where the dead hero explains he was just a shell and his soul was preserved so now he can live again? Or that a clone double was the one who died? Or that the Queen will now order Gen to have extensive nerve regeneration therapy and order the wayward limb reattached?
I reread the page again and again on many separate occasions. I just couldn't get over it.
"The obduracy of the Queen of Attolia...." "Please, please he begged, as if his heart were breaking..." the description of the air being as stone...wow. I mean, this is classy writing. wow. breathtaking.

I think we're so unused to things staying the way we ruin them (as opposed to a "control-Z" type of world portrayed in comics and books) which is strange, as our physical world is irreversible, for the most part - but this type of storytelling is what defines "great". Megan takes the handicaps of life - ie, no backsies - and makes it wonderful/amazing/Gen.

Wow.
I'm all amazed all over again.
It's funny to think of it, actually, just tonight I was finishing a piece for a magazine and it was a very emotional bit of writing, I kept on thinking of this particular scene and how it was written (I actually included a reference to Thief in the article, which I doubt anyone in the readership will even remotely recognize.)

[crazyviolin.livejournal.com]

I read QoA first when I was only 10 and perhaps I was too young to understand how Gen and Irene were in love by the end. I don't remember being too upset about Gen's hand; I was probably just generally shocked which I expect is a normal reaction to any scene like that.

However, when I read The Thief a year or two later, I thought it might be about someone else. It seemed a really odd situation for the Eugenides of QoA to be in. And while I had my suspicions that Gen could be the Thief of Eddis, MWT defintely had me convinced he wasn't until the end!

Anyway, then I got upset knowing Gen was going to have his hand cut off. Especially when I reread QoA for the first time after reading The Thief because then I'd got attached to the character and didn't want anything bad to happen to him.

[netslefj.livejournal.com]

I read in order, because a friend had said, "Want to read a really well-written series?" Had I read the amputation first, I think my reaction would have been against Attolia before I cared much about Gen.

I remember my stomach absolutely twisted as Gen fought being strapped into the chair and mutilated. And I thought the punishment was bizarrely concrete, because if Gen had stolen anything, he had stolen military intelligence. He had GIVEN her beautiful, regal earrings - and she knew where those earrings had come from without being told in any way.

So I thought she was insane. I still think she was on that edge at that time. Do you remember Eddis suggesting so in (I think)that incredible scene where she realizes Gen is determined to MARRY Attolia, whatever the consequences for his sanity? that he is determined to end a war that he thinks his stupidity started?

As QoA continued, and the history and depth of his attachment to Attolia became clear, I began to see them as kindred souls - isolated, troubled, intellectually alive, capable of great emotional depth and of great conviction and honesty - but one was almost a lost soul and the other was risking his sanity to reach her. And after Gen sought his gods in QoA,I've decided that Gen indeed had been asked to sacrifice part of himself to redeem Attolia's sanity. Do you think he realized it then or ever?

And that sequence of events is what convinced me that MWT is a brilliant, compassionate writer, one who changes the way her readers think.

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

he is determined to end a war that he thinks his stupidity started?

Good point. And being Gen, he managed to think of a way to end it that accomplished what he desperately wanted, too.

I believe Gen realized as soon as he spoke with the unnamed goddess that his hand was the necessary sacrifice to save Irene. Nothing else could have caused the remorse and compassion she felt afterwards, or given Eugenides the opportunity to keep her from being lost forever--to the Medes or to insanity.

[netslefj.livejournal.com]

And it was when Attolia described how the gods had thwarted his escape that he rushed off to find a sacrifice that might convince them to communicate with him again. So I agree - that's when he put the puzzle together for himself. Do you htink Attolia's seen it too?

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

I think Attolia did eventually, but not right away. All she knew for certain is that the gods caused her to catch Eugenides, then advised her not to kill him (though the final choice, there, they left up to her. She could have killed him, but risked offending gods she didn't believe in up to then.).

Certainly, she thought the gods had betrayed him for some reason, and when he came back alive she probably realized that they hadn't, but that it happened for another reason. I imagine she eventually figured out that his hand was the sacrifice for her. Quite a burden to carry, really. On top of the guilt for cutting off his hand. But Eugenides-and his country-gained from it all as well.

Maybe that's why they both cried on their wedding night. :)

[(Anonymous)]

I've always thought that is the reason. Do you think Gen actually told Dite that in so many words?

Isn't it funny how they are teasing everyone with it, even the allegedly humorless Attolia herself? Really, they are a subtle pair of wags.

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure what Gen told Dite. I'd guess that he said, "Look, the truth is that I love her madly and only want what's best for her. She loves me, and she cried that night because she'd cut off my hand. If you really care about her, cut us some slack and help us out here."

Much more eloquently, and with a great deal more wit, of course.

I suppose Gen could have claimed to be an instrument of the gods, but that might not have gone over with Dite so well.

It was sweet when Irene could joke about it with Relius, as if their emotional outburst was funny in retrospect, and a fond memory. A scene like that can clear the air and bring a couple much closer together.