More QoA QoAstions

[aged-crone.livejournal.com]

As I said, I've been reading through QoA and KoA again.



1)After Nahuseresh has "rescued" Attolia, and she has spoken with Gen, and he has said "From shadow queen to puppet queen inone rule . . . When he rules your country and he tells you he loves you, I hope you believe him . . . At least that's one lie I didn't tell you," Nahuseresh comes up. Attolia boxes Eugenides' ear so hard that he falls. "She hoped the fall would shut him up but considered kicking him to be sure. She had no desire to hear him protesting his undying love, but he was so very stubborn when you finally got down to some substance under all the lies."

That sounded to me as if she knew then that he loved her. That his "undying love" was substance under all the lies. It seems as if she wants him to be quiet so he isn't saying he loves her in front of Nahuseresh, doesn't it? Or why?

Anyway, working on the assumption that she has realized that he really does love her then - why, then, by the time Eddis and Eugenides arrive at the city of Attolia, is the Queen being all distant and , after she thoughtlessly offers hunting to a man with one hand, is thinking that "she might be fool enough to love him; she wasn't fool enough to believe he loved her. She'd seen the look in his father's eyes, and if she didn't see it in Eugenides's eyes, then he was better at hiding it, that was all." Surely it can't be just because the MoW is glaring at her. She was being distant even before they talks started. What's up with that?

2)I believe she's flattering Nahuseresh and making him thing she's "cow-eyed" for him because she knows he'd kill her if he thought she was a danger.
"We will certainly bring her [Attolia] back," his master had answered. "Whether she will be alive, I cannot say. Alive, she would be very grateful."
"If she dies, there will be an internal war for the throne," Kamet had said.
"And someone will surely wish for the assistance of our emperor," Nahuseresh had answered with a confident smile. (pp. 215-16 of the original hardcover)

Does that make sense to you all, or, if not, what other reasons do you think she had for her behavior?

3)Why did she have Gen locked up in a separate room? She tells the Mede, "I don't believe I trust him enough to leave him with his fellows, and I would like him to be nearer to hand." She surely doesn't think he'll be asking any of the Eddisians to kill him at that point, since he knows that she's willing to marry him because she's wearing his earrings. It couldn't be to protect him from Nahuseresh or anybody, surely, because he'd be safer with a bunch of Eddisians around him rather than alone, seems to me. So - why the separate prison?

And, when she's talking to Eddis and Eddis asks where Eugenides is, Attolia is startled, says she has ordered the other prisoners released but forgot that she had him locked up separately. "You forgot?" Eddis asked. "I forgot," Attolia said firmly, daring Eddis to contradict her.

Did she really forget? It sounds to me as if she didn't, really, just from the "daring Eddis to contradict her" phrase. If she didn't actually forget, why didn't she order Gen released?

4)Although Attolia's (I guess) already denying to herself that Gen loves her, she obviously no longer believes the rumors she had heard about Gen and Eddis. She has told Nahuseresh that, and, in addition, when the two Queens go into the room where Gen's being held prisoner, Attolia doesn't misinterpret things that Eddis is saying. "I would have expected a light sleeper," Attolia commented. "Usually he is," Eddis said. . . "I'm always willing to forgive him anything - until he wakes up." Possibly the distinctly unloverlike poking him to awaken him set any fears she may have had to rest?

Comments

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

1) I always wondered about that. I concluded that by "substance" she meant his analysis of Nahuseresh here. The last thing she wants is for Nahuseresh to suspect she doesn't trust him, and here is Gen saying, "Don't trust him! Don't trust him!" like an idiot, right in front of the guy. Though she does seem to go back and forth between believing in his love and not believing. She seems to buy his story about the dancing under the orange trees as "calf love" -- meaning she believed he did feel SOMETHING.
2)Yes, she's probably somewhat afraid of him, but she's also stringing him along for the monetary help he's giving her military campaign, right?
3)I don't think Attolia's absolutely sure that her message got through, either to Gen or to the Minister of War. She's gambling all through here. Gen is pretty out of it. She wants to keep him alive at all costs. Did she forget? Hmmm. Well, she was having a nice time watching the campaign and insulting Nahuseresh. It's possible.

[aged-crone.livejournal.com]

2)Yes, all along the money has helped! But I mean in the scenes after he has rescued her, when I think she already knows she's not going to be getting any more money. Unless, of course, her plans fall through; but on the other hand, even if they did I wonder how long she'd have played along, or whether she'd have called on Sounis for help. Or even Eddis, sooner than the Mede.

[empmai.livejournal.com]

3) I agee with Philia_fan on not quite knowing if Gen had not only got her plan but was able to pass it on to the MoW.

Also Even though Gen is a frien-emeny he is sounis/eddis/attolia best chance to get the mede. off their land. If the MoW didn't get the plan then chances are the Eddisians (especially those in capture) would have been slaughtered. But I don't think Na. understood just how much of a threat Gen is (he thought the kidnapping was just her general's screw-up), (though if Gen had proffesed his loved Na. might want to get 'macho-lover's revenge' on Gen) so Attolia would have been gambling that Na. would forget about Gen being seperated which would give Gen a chance to escape while the other captured eddisians were killed.

[stlyn.livejournal.com]

1)I always thought that she knew then that he loved her. And when she says later that she doesn't believe it...haven't you ever been in a relationship with someone and somehow doubted that it's real? I have. She knows he cares, but that doesn't mean she doesn't doubt it sometimes...she's not used to having people think of her that way, since she's spent most of her life making herself feared.

2)Yes, that makes sense...I think she was also trying to keep him trusting her because she had already decided that she would ask Eddis for help. If he suspected her at all, it would have been more difficult for her to send the message.

3)I agree with philia_fan about the private room.

I think she really forgot. There was a lot going on, I believe it would have slipped her mind. She didn't really have much reason to keep him locked up. Plus, Eugenides also accuses both of the queens of forgetting him.

4)I don't really understand what you're saying here...I don't think she had any fears that Eddis and Eugenides were lovers. Maybe I'm not remembering something.

[aged-crone.livejournal.com]

4)Oh, yeah. When the rumors arrive from Eddis' court, relayed to Attolia by Relius, she hears that Eddis and her Thief are ... pause... *close*, politely asks her attendants and Relius to leave, and proceeds to throw everything in the room around.

[stlyn.livejournal.com]

Argh. I can't find this. Do you know the chapter?

I can't quite remember it but I think I always assumed she was upset about something else he said.

[aged-crone.livejournal.com]

Chapter 9. Right after the story of Meridite. Now, I'll grant you that it *could* be that she's just worried that Eugenides is still a danger, but I think we had a discussion earlier in which I stated my belief that that wasn't what set her off; it was jealousy, albeit unconscious jealousy.

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

I used to think it was just that Attolia was worried about the danger, but then you all pointed out that Gen is the one thing that makes her lose her cool; throwing inkpots, slamming doors, smashing crockery.

[stlyn.livejournal.com]

Ah, thanks.

Huh. I don't think I ever considered that that could be jealousy. I guess that make sense.

I always read it thinking that she was upset that he was up and active again. It says "she tried to assess the danger that Eugenides had become." Also, she assumes that they were pretending not to be together "to conceal his efforts on her behalf", which means she doesn't know how long they have been concealing his actions, pretending he was pouting in his room, and reminds her that she can't guess what they're up to now.

I have a tendency not to read between the lines if things seem to be explained well w/o reading anything into it. But I can see what you mean.

[aged-crone.livejournal.com]

I checked. It was actually my second post to Sounis, almost a year ago. http://community.livejournal.com/sounis/63322.html (not the main topic, but further down).

My, how time does fly!

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

Of course, Attolia could be jealous, consciously or un-, without actually believing that Eddis and Gen are lovers. The possibility of it might be enough to set her off -- or the appearance of it.

[estarria.livejournal.com]

3.) About putting Eugenides in a separate room: Maybe Attolia just did that to keep up appearances for Nahuseresh. Eugenides knew Attolia wouldn't kill him, but Nahuseresh probably expected her to, and so it would make sense to him to isolate Eugenides away from his countrymen so he wouldn't try to pull the suicide stunt again.

About Attolia forgetting Eugenides: I always assumed that she really did forget, and that when she told Eddis that, Eddis was suspicious. So Attolia answered "I forgot" in the firm tone to try to convince Eddis that she wasn't lying. Though now that it's brought up, I could see this going either way (Attolia lying or not lying).

Now I'm curious about 1 and 4. I hope someone comes up with a nice theory for those.

[aged-crone.livejournal.com]

That's a good explanation for isolating Gen. I hadn't thought about her keeping up appearances.

[willow-41z.livejournal.com]

1.) I think she knew he loved her, or thought he loved her, then. That's one of my favorite parts. Though it's hard to pick in a book as awesome as QoA.
Anyway, maybe she talked herself out of the idea that he really loved her between then and the time they arrived in Attolia.

This may actually be one of the more romantic books of all time. Yes, Attolia cuts off his hand, but he still loves her, and proceeds to risk capture and slow, horrible death to save her from assassination at Eddis's bidding or at the Mede's hands (would he have been the one Eddis sent to kill her if it came to that? They wanted to eliminate the instability of the Attolian queen, after all), and then leaves everything he has ever known to go to a place he hates to do a job he doesn't want, because it's the only way he can have her. And Attolia is willing to break her stone mask and risk being human again, because she loves him; so he saves her on that level, too. I wonder if you can say Gen is quite sane?

3.) I think she was doing it to fool Nahuseresh, and I think she really did forget. Also, if he's in a separate room with a guard outside, it's harder for the Mede to assassinate him, perhaps... though in that case he might actually be safer with his countrymen.

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

leaves everything he has ever known to go to a place he hates to do a job he doesn't want, because it's the only way he can have her.

That's so sad. Poor Gen. :(

[empmai.livejournal.com]

Just reading that quote (number #1) made we want to go and reread QoA. From the stair climb until after picking up Gen in the room is at the top of the list of my favourist book scenes.

I interpreted as she didn't want Na. to get any ideas or doubts. If he herad Gen saying he loved her in such a definite tone he met think there was something between them.

[willow-41z.livejournal.com]

He'd probably kill him, come to think of it...

Attolia has no trust

[(Anonymous)]

")Oh, yeah. When the rumors arrive from Eddis' court, relayed to Attolia by Relius, she hears that Eddis and her Thief are ... pause... *close*, politely asks her attendants and Relius to leave, and proceeds to throw everything in the room around."

I think that this reaction was partly nerves, partly anger that Gen seems to be fit as a fiddle and therefore once again a danger, and partly unconsious jealousy, both that Gen and Eddis might be as *close* as the rumors say, but also that Eddis once again has the option of using Gen as a weapon against her. Attolia has a serious jealousy of Eddis, in just about every possible way. I think that she is especially angry that Eddis can trust Gen so completely, while Attolia has been taught to believe that she can trust absolutely no one. Can you imagine living like that? Sheesh...no wonder she's so edgy.

Re: Attolia has no trust

[savvywriter.livejournal.com]

Sorry, I forgot I wasn't logged in. I posted that. =D

Re: Attolia has no trust

[rosaleeluann.livejournal.com]

but also that Eddis once again has the option of using Gen as a weapon against her...think that she is especially angry that Eddis can trust Gen so completely.

I always assumed she was jealous (subconsciously) because she loved Gen, but I'd never considered that... I think you have something there!

[alineadrklrdsis.livejournal.com]

3) This isn't the most thought out theory but when you think about it; would Gen have been safe with the Eddisians? Eventually yes but when Attolia first locked them all up, all the Eddisians were chained and guarded. So I always assumed that it was to protect him from Nahuseresh.

[ivorysilk]

I got the feeling that she locked him separately to keep him safe--not just from Nahuseresh, but from himself and the other Eddissians, all of whom knew he preferred death than being the Queen's captive again. Her change of heart was not yet clearly on the table, Gen was out of it, and she couldn't trust that he understood what she was up to. I can't remember offhand if when she gave her message to Gen's father, if Gen was in earshot either.

I keep wondering, however, what it is the Queen wrote on the note she sent Gen, when Teleus found him with Relius in the dungeon ...

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

Well, it made him smile so it must have threatened him with some sort of bodily harm.

[aged-crone.livejournal.com]

Chortle! Oh, so true!

[suryla.livejournal.com]

on #2: It always seemed to me that Attolia knew how to play people quite well. I somehow got the feeling that she for certain that she couldn't trust Nahuseresh in the least, but if she could play him and squeeze as much money out of him as possible, making it look like she "needed" him and help from the Medean Empire, then she would have something to gain by playing to his obvious vanity.

[aged-crone.livejournal.com]

I realized that I wasn't very specific in my original post. I was (mentally) focusing on Attolia's behavior to the Mede after he "rescued" her. At that point I don't think she's worried about getting money from the Medean Empire, and I know she's always known she couldn't trust him and was playing on his vanity as on a Stradivarius. : ) But, up to that point, the danger was pretty far off. By the time of the "rescue," his troops are already right there, and she is completely in his power. That conversation of his with his slave made me think that, if Attolia hadn't reacted in what he considered an approriate fashion, he would ahve arranged for her not to get back to her capital city alive.

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

Oh, definitely, Leslie. Sorry, I misunderstood you earlier. I agree, that whole section in there after the "rescue" is fraught with physical danger, and Attolia is amazing for remaining so outwardly calm throughout!