Question

[shaylee-ann.livejournal.com]

Hello. :-)  I just finished reading Queen of Attolia and King of Attolia for the first time.  They was recommended to me and I finally got around to reading them.  I enjoyed them very much (I read The Thief a while ago) and am planning on rereading them as soon as I can.  But there's something that bothers me, and I wanted to get the opinions of people that were more familiar with the series, and my friend rosaleeluann suggested I post here.  This is my question (it is a spoiler, in case that matters, but I'm assuming everybody here has read the books):

To be short and to the point, it seems very unbelievable (in my opinion) that Gen is so in love with Attolia especially seeing as she cut off his hand.  I cannot understand why he wants to marry her.  She's not (again, imo) even a likable character until King of Attolia (or the very very end of Queen).  Why did he love her?  Why would he love someone that cut off his hand?  He didn't even know that much about her before he was caught, if I understand correctly.  The only things he knew about her came from reports or spying her, which wouldn't be the same as talking to her and getting to know her.  Can someone please explain this to me?

Thanks!

Comments

[fragilistikal.livejournal.com]

Gen doesn't fall in love with her after she cuts off his hand: he WAS in love with her (or fascinated by her/invested in her) WHEN she cut his hand off.

It makes for a really interesting dynamic because on the one hand, he loves her. On the other--well, he doesn't have the other hand because she CUT IT OFF, and he's scared shitless of her. But he doesn't WANT to be...and yet it's warranted.

[coyul.livejournal.com]

He'd been spying on her for years, ever since he saw her dancing by herself outside during some party (also during a palace break-in). He'd pretty much been in love with her since then, or it started out as fascination and evolved into love.

fragilistikal is so right about the dynamics. He loves her, but he's scared shitless of her at the same time. I believe part of his depression was due to the fact that it was her who had his hand cut off, not just that it had been cut off.

[9mil.livejournal.com]

I think MWT kind of gives a good background for those still doubtful of Attolia's character when she has Gen explain the time he watched her dancing alone in the orange trees.(in Queen) At that point, he becomes fascinated by her, more so than he already had been, and invests time in spying on her and hearing about her. He was caught (and eventually behanded) because of his own obsession with her. He loved her still, I think, not in spite of, but maybe because of how she handled him as her prisoner. She's hardheaded and stubborn, but she loves her country, and he admires that. He is that.

I think that, with Gen and Attolia, it's not him accepting her, but him adoring her, rejoicing in all the things people pretty much hate her for. And she's afraid of love, but amazed at the same time by it.

These are really just my opinions/ideas, and it has been a while since I've read the series, but I hope you come around to Attolia (or Irene, as I prefer because that's so my middle name) because I really feel that she's one of the greatest characters in fiction.

[fragilistikal.livejournal.com]

And from my reading, I think it's important to assume they connected on a deeper level before. I haven't reread the books a in a while, but it felt like Gen and Attolia had an understanding of each other on a silent level. Attolia isn't a chatty person at the best of times, but Gen understood her to a degree, and he's the one who started it--breaking in and leaving things for her.

I think there's a lot of sympathy built in for Attolia in Queen: the way she can't stop thinking of Gen, her guilt, her intense loneliness. I think only Gen saw behind the mask of the frigid queen to something more like a girl, which I think is kind of miraculous because hello, Attolia. Scary. ;) The fact that he did see it, was one of the only ones to see it, kind of signalled to me he had a justifiably deep attraction to her, and her to him.

[twtd]

I think that it starts out more along the lines of obsession then develops into love. The marriage is also a political necessity and I think that even had he not loved her, Gen would have married Attolia anyway. Gen starts by spying on her and the spying allows him to develop an idea of her (whether it's accurate or not). His interactions with her are a great game to him and that's incredibly attractive. And then he gets captured.

I think that part of the reason the Gen is so good at being a thief is because he has a great insight in to how people think. When he gets captured and Attolia and cuts off his hand, that tells him so much about who she is and how she thinks. I'm sure that for a time afterwards he absolutely hates her but we have no way of knowing because MWT doesn't allow us that knowledge. The thing is, his emotions aren't that simple. Just because he hates and fears her doesn't mean that he doesn't still love her. That emotional conflict is one of the things that makes the Quen's Thief books so good.

Also, from a purely structural point of view, Attolia is the only person that's ever bested him (something else that's incredibly attractive emotionally). She's his only equal within the books and therefore the only possible person he could love. I guess that's why I wasn't surprised when they ended up together. I was waiting for it from the moment that Attolia was introduced.

And while it may not be healthy, we often do fall in love with the people who hurt us the most whether emotionally or physically. In RL it can be a serious problem but within the context of the books, Gen understands why Attolila acted the way she did. MWT does a very good job in QoA and KoA of making it clear that in her mind, Attolia has no other choice than to act the way she does (including cutting of Gen's hand).

[9mil.livejournal.com]

I just want to say, indeed! Especially on the whole besting thing, which I think he may have even known and thus fallen for her because he believes he needs someone that can beat him. Or something.

[gauroth.livejournal.com]

What everyone else said!

Also: Gen is aware of Attolia's knife-edged political situation. Her throne isn't as secure as Eddis's, and having captured the Thief she had to be seen to be punishing him. She can't afford to show mercy. She should have had him executed; but she had his hand cut off instead. Horrible; but at least he's alive.

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

Oh, what good answers everyone has! I would add that getting to know Attolia is actually more easily done by spying on her than by talking to her, and that Gen probably knows her better than almost anyone else by the time they get together. Attolia has a mask constantly in place when she speaks to people -- by spying on her, Gen sees her in unguarded moments, and sees more of the person behind the mask.

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

And even more, his depression was due to a sense of the gods' betrayal, and the fact that he KNEW IT WAS HIS OWN FAULT that she cut his hand off. Attolia is terrified of him, because he's been making it obvious to her that he spies on her, that he sneaks in when she's supposedly protected and is able to leave earrings. There is no way Attolia could have just let him go with a ransom, and he knows it.

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

...um, I mean, HE'S able to leave earrings. Bad sentence.

[rosaleeluann.livejournal.com]

Hey, thanks so much guys :)
As mentioned in her post, Saylee_ann is a good friend of mine who I've been bothering to read these books ever since I fell in love with them. When she was asking me these questions I was just like "Ah! I don't know! Go ask the smart people!"

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

Yes, great answers! And Gen has always been able to see something in Attolia no one else seems to be able to--even Relius, who is her closest advisor. Gen sees the longing in her: how she wants to be a person different than how she has to be, and how much the course of her life has taken away from her humanity.

I agree that he may have married her even if he hadn't loved her. He had a strong sense of loyalty and duty to his queen and his country. As Attolia has to her country.

[queenofattolia.livejournal.com]

Ah, the big question, which begs a bigger one: Why does anyone love anyone? It's completely subjective and unknowable. Gen's perception was always heightened, far above normal men, and it's obvious he saw Attolia as his life partner/soul mate/other half from an early age. And as he said to Attolia, "Calf love usually doesn't survive amputation."

As the Goddess herself implied to him, that amputation and the huge change it made in his life was his sacrifice to win her. Gen's steadfast love survived what Attolia did to him, and when she realized this she became a human being, one who was finally capable of returning his love. This terrible core to their relationship is one of the most subtle and powerful things I've ever read. It's also one of the boldest and least sentimental.

ETA: Of course, the amputation and Attolia's love were merely steps to him becoming King, you know.

[estarria.livejournal.com]

Exactly. And to add to that, we (the readers) don't get nearly as clear a picture of Attolia as Eugenides gets by his espionage. Even when we read scenes in QoA where Attolia is alone and somewhat vulnerable, her true motivations are usually only hinted at, or disguised on purpose (by the author :). Moreover, Eugenides has the benefit of having seen her unguarded many times before the events of QoA, whereas we don't. So while she may seem unpleasant to us at first, it's a good guess that at least part of this is because we're seeing her mask too.

Incidentally, if you haven't done this already, it also helps to go back and read some of the scenes in QoA with Attolia by herself (or at least not talking to anyone). Once you know the end of the story, several of the things she thinks and does take on whole new meanings. (Her love for Eugenides seems a much more gradual and reasonable thing.) The same is true for several of the Eugenides scenes too...the part where he asks Eddis to give him permission to go steal Attolia is majorly different when you know what he was REALLY saying. When I read it the second time it was almost like a different book.

Getting to like Irene

[(Anonymous)]

This question really bothered me for a long time. I had been dead set against Attolia from The Thief, and then so incredibly flippin' angry at her throughout QoA, that I never really gave her a chance. I don't want to repeat the wonderfully thoughtful answers that others have left about why Eugenides loves Irene; however, I thought I might make a few comments on MWT's fantastic writing and subtle handling of this issue.

I think the reader is intended to feel conflicted about the pairing throughout the series: After all, Eugenide's love for Irene is sort of the twist at the end of the second book (or perhaps her love for him), and much of the tension of the third book is "will they or won't they last." This isn't only a plot device, however; I think to a certain extent it also reflects Irene's own uncertainty about how she feels and figuring out how to love and trust someone in return (same goes for Eugenides, come to think). Remember, she didn't make the decision to marry him knowing that she loved him; she only figured that out when she looked in at Eugenides sleeping and was terrified he might be dead.

That said, MWT does drop beautifully subtle, telling little hints about Attolia's more human side throughout all of her books. While we very rarely get to see Irene's character development "on screen," we are given hints about who she might become. I heartily recommend re-reading the books for these little nuggets, especially QoA: think of Attolia's irrational fury at Eugenides' sincere smile, or her guilt-induced insomnia, or her prickly pride and loneliness. Re-reading QoA now, Attolia really comes off as a tortured and extremely unhappy character, and one with whom a reader can become sympathetic. Remember: our image of Attolia is almost always filtered by the prejudices/expectations of the Eddisian or the Attolian court, or even by Irene's own misconceptions about how she feels; look for the passages about what Attolia does when she is alone, or where Eugenides is thinking about her.

[etv13.livejournal.com]

And here's a related question: what would Gen have done when they were in the boat if Attolia had refused to marry him? Was he bluffing, or would he really have killed her?

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

Ah, I love this question. We've discussed it before but not for a long time, and never with any real conclusions. You may want to make it into a new post where people will see it.

[shaylee-ann.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much, everyone! They are very helpful answers. I'm rereading Queen right now and I'm finding it a lot easier to accept that Gen and Attolia love each other.
Thanks! :-)

[beatlelove927.livejournal.com]

She intrests him. Do they say that somewhere? THe most beautiful, and saddest thing ever, something along those lines. Mucho Vaugeness

[in-my-niteshirt.livejournal.com]

Here's a theory I haven't yet seen, so maybe this is me just reading too much into it. I think the God's have blessed (or cursed?) Gen to love her because that's part of their plan for him. Throughout the whole series, you see how the Gods favor Gen and you see everything they do to further their plans for him. He is destined to be an Annux, right? So they need him to marry a Queen, (and Eddis won't do because they need him to be king of a more powerful nation.) So they bless him with this ability to see Attolia for who she is deep down, without her mask, and they put him in places and situations where he will see her, and then (here's the real challenge for those matchmaking gods) they set out to get her to fall in love with him.
The interesting question to debate here though, is did Gen *choose* to love her (does he have free will?) or do the Gods control his decisions? Eddis talks about this (p 171 in QoA)and says her decisions are her own choosing and her own responsibility. And the whole story of Hespira is alluding to what's about to happen with Gen. The point of that story was how Hespira (representing Gen) *chose* to be with Horreon (representing Attolia). So I guess my theory is that the Gods set things up just so, blessing Gen to love her, knowing he will choose to act on those feelings and marry her.

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

Oh, bravo! Megan did say that the gods wanted Gen and Irene to be together. They did the obvious things like telling Nahuseresh where he could find the Eddisians, but maybe these subtle things, too. I'm a firm believer in the free-choice thing, that was made pretty clear.

[passionfor.livejournal.com]

That's one INTERESTING theory, I'd never considered it before.
It was mentioned in the books multiple times that the actions made by characters were their choice entirely, and that all the gods would do would be to put characters, say attolia and gen, in situations where they would naturally fall in love, doing, perhaps, exactly what the gods had wanted :)

Gen and Attolia

[hershey-fan.livejournal.com]

I enjoyed reading the other comments and agreed with many of them. I think that one thing that movies and many books tend to do is make people one dimensional. They are good or they are bad. They are honest or they are deceitful. MWT recognizes that characters are multi-faceted and they are complex. The moment I first read that she cut off his hand, I was amazed that anything that terrible could have happened to the main character. I wanted to throw the book across the room. I wanted to cry. I was angry that Gen had been hurt and I felt like his life was over...much as he felt. And I read as he slowly came to life again. And as he came to life, we saw Attolia, previously untouched by emotion - except when he's around ("She was more kind"), also coming to painful life. When he plans and plots to marry her, he is not who he was when she cut off his hand, and she is not who she was either. They have both changed. He was on the path to loving her for years - he watched her and he KNEW her. All the bad stuff, the stuff she hated herself for, all the innocense that she once had, as well as the loneliness. And she knew that he knew her and being KNOWN, that's what people want above all things: to be known and accepted. He knows her and she finally accepts that and chooses to love him as well. I don't think they know what they like in each other's coffee. I think they know each other's souls - what makes the other person tick. And suddenly, the loss of his hand becomes a side story rather than the main event. The main event is about healing and being known and acceptance.
One of the most beautiful, heart-rending love stories I've ever read.