Eddis, Attolia, Sounis

I think he'd studied Costis and was pretty sure he could get Costis to hit him if he insulted Teleus.

On the other hand, everything Gen does is a huge gamble. As he says to Costis: "There's the true course of political savvy for you, good guesses." There is always the possibility that he will guess wrong.

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I should add, it's pretty clear that Gen LET Costis hit him, because when we see him attacked by assassins later, his reaction time is lightning-fast. The clue is in chapter one: "He'd gone down like a rag doll."

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willow-41z.livejournal.com

This is a good point, I had never thought of it like that before. You always find the coolest things in the books, Philia. :-)

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Thanks, Willow!

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dawnbluewings.livejournal.com

That one amused my Martial-Arts trained mind: It's safer to fall like a rag doll than like a porcelain one. That was actually the terminology that my instructor used to the room full of small girls one day. You fall in a limp manner and land softly, rather than falling stiffly and landing hard.

Somebody knows this....

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True, but I think the fact that Gen falls at all shows he's just acting. I'm dead certain he could have ducked.

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etv13.livejournal.com

He really gets hit,hard enough to leave a bruise, though, right?

Gen never spares himself. His plans often involve a fair amount of physical abuse he knows about ahead of time (spending months in Sounis's prison, for example). I think that's what makes him so lovable despite his manipulative nature.

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meltintall3.livejournal.com

I re-read that bit today (looking for that line) and when I found it, I noticed that I had always assumed that it was Costis who went down like the rag doll--swearing allegiance to his new king. Or is that one of those lines that can be read either way?

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dark_fishie

I agree with the above posts that Gen studies people and uses the knowledge to his advantage. I believe that he uses the knowledge to create situations where the result that HE wants is more probable. He also has the flexibility to change his plans when needed. Therefore it looks as if he planned out every single step.
In the example with Costis, Gen knew that he needed Ten.. (the Captain)'s support. My guess is that he poked around and found Costis as a good candidate for changing his mind. He baited Costis on purpose and I'm sure if Costis did not bite, he'd try it again or find another candidate to bait (should another one be available). Also, he could have baited Costis already but because the story is in his perspective and not Gen's, we don't know for sure. However, Gen chose Costis on purpose; he said one of the ways to change someone's mind is to change the mind of someone else close to them. The someone else is, of course, Costis.
An example of him changing his plans is near the end of The Thief when he gave himself up to the Attolian soldiers so the Magus and his people would escape.
:)

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pigrescuer.livejournal.com

*really needs to read KoA again*

One thing he made up on the spot - the bridge. I love that bit of quick thinking.

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I've wondered about this, too. If you look at what went on in Gen's head in Thief, he had a "stupid" plan (his word) but no back up to get himself out of prison if the Magus hadn't released him. He always seems to have a plan, and sticks to it, but also pokes people and acts impulsively sometimes. The time he baited Ambiades and found himself lying in the stream with his head ringing is an example.

Costis doesn't seem to lose his temper easily or act without thinking but I guess Gen knew just the right insult. And Gen insulted Teleus all the time--was he trying to get him lash out, too?

Wonder what the rest of his plan was, if Costis hadn't forced his hand by starting the sparring match.

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You know, I've always gotten the impression that Gen's intention was to get everything he wanted done without becoming king. I believe Costis actually screwed up his plan in that respect. Sort of like how getting thrown in Attolia's prison and getting his hand lopped off wasn't part of Gen's plan - the gods were simply acting through someone else to move him out of a dead end he had contentedly backed himself into. They had bigger plans for him than being the queen's thief, and bigger plans for him than being a king lurking in the shadows of his wife.

And anyway, it's good for Gen - he needs to be reminded every now and again that people do have minds of their own.

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peggy-2.livejournal.com

that is a very good thought. Thanks! :)

*feels enlightened*

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Lol, I just noticed your icon. It is amusingly fitting. :)

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I agree.

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Do you think the gods were working through Costis, then?

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Oh yes. They work through anybody on hand, I should think. :D But the question I think we should be asking is: WHICH gods?

What do the Attolian gods think of Gen? I mean, we know that the gods are real, like tangible real in Gen-land, so one must wonder if the Attolian gods are off having coffee somewhere with the Eddisan ones. They certainly wouldn't disagree, I think, if Gen will be good for their people and country.

So perhaps the Attolian gods are lending a hand with their followers too.

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We know the Eddian gods are real. No one seems to be sure about the Attolian ones.

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rosaleeluann.livejournal.com

*cough*Philia*cough*

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Oh Rosie! You coughed the words right out of my mouth!

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Costis believes in Philia, but she doesn't make an appearance in the books. Maybe Attolian gods use livejournal to communicate with their people rather than showing up on the roofs of castles. That would be one way to reach the masses!

philia_fan, otoh, is real. This is most certainly true.

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Are you sure? (cue spooky music)

Philia the goddess may not be real, but Gen takes the promise of the gold cups pretty seriously, and after all he does survive the wound -- and proceed to show mercy to everyone. Just saying.

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Not everyone's lucky enough to be able to schedule a meeting with their gods :). Gen respects the Attolian gods even if he thinks his are better, and he certainly seems to believe they exist too. I'm speaking of the "currying favour" comment he makes to Costis, here. And anyway, the Attolians know their gods are real, which means that they are.

Hah. This, coming from an atheist.

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sclerotia.livejournal.com

I don't think Gen knew that Costis would hit him, but I think he hoped Costis would do something intemperate which he could use as leverage in engineering further situations that he could use to eventually get where he wanted. Long term planning in small increments is a sneaky, Thief-like way of doing things. If you read KoA first you wouldn't know, but if you read the other books first then you knew how fake the whole thing was. Really--Gen rolling around in the dirt howling in pain--and this is the same guy that had his hand cut off without screaming.

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Exactly. That scene reminded me right away of the part in Thief where Gen baits Ambiades, who then hits him. Gen makes a big deal of it and says his arm is broken, adding that it was a "dreadful lie."

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teacherstories.livejournal.com

I'm new here, but I was interested in the question, so I thought I'd jump right in.

I see Gen as a master chess player. I think that before he puts any plan into action, he looks at all the possible outcomes. He is able to do this because he is such an astute observer, and a master at finding which buttons will cause which reactions. For example, towards the end of QOA, Gen tells Attolia that he will take a mistress, and she responds by threatening to cut off his other hand. Gen laughs at this because (I believe) he has provoked her into revealing that she has feelings for him. When lounging during audiences he can see how each member of the court reacts to his behavior. Of course, there is the added benefit that he is also able to move virtually undetected in most places, and is therefore able to spy on his targets.

Having said all of that, I also think that Gen is incredibly quick and readily adapts to whatever circumstances arise.

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peggy-2.livejournal.com

I think you hit the nail on the head. The chess master is a great analogy.

Welcome! yay for jumping right in!

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teacherstories.livejournal.com

Thank you. I was very pleased to find a forum dedicated to The Thief. That is a world I find very difficult to leave.

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