Gen and Attolia in a Rowboat

[cyberskiver.livejournal.com]

I know we've been spending most of our time discussing KoA, but recently I've been thinking back to QoA, especially Chapter Fifteen, which, you will remember, contained some very important events and revelations. It has occurred to me that many things could have gone very differently, particularly when Gen and Attolia were in the boat.


Situation:

Eugenides and Attolia are in a boat, that, fortunately for Eugenides, possesses sails. The sea is quite choppy, and the wind is behind them. There are cliffs nearby, and lots of rocks near the coast. By the time they reach the cove, the wind has died and the water is still.

Neither Eugenides nor Attolia can swim.

Eugenides loves Attolia, but she does not realize this.

Attolia cannot steer the boat.

Eugenides cannot row the boat.

Weapons:

Eugenides has one hand, a hook, Attolia's three knives, and a marriage proposal.

Attolia has a paddle.

Several 'What ifs':

What if Attolia had taken Eugenides by surprise by clubbing him with the paddle?

What if Attolia had refused to row anywhere until they had decided on terms that pleased her more?

What if Eugenides had told her he loved her while they were still in the boat? Would Attolia have acted differently?

It seems to me that if Eugenides really had drowned Attolia, he wouldn't have been able to row to shore. Could Attolia have called his bluff?

Anyway, further thoughts would be welcome.

Comments

[fabricalchemist.livejournal.com]

First off, why does "Gen and Attolia in a rowboat" sound like the opening to a really bad joke? XD

I think she didn't hit him because she loved him back, but hadn't yet admitted it to herself/ figured out what her feelings were. I mean, if you're the hard-fisted queen who has a tight rein on your country and squabbling barons who could turn on you at any minute, I think it would be hard to let yourself feel those emotions; you'd probably push them to the back of your mind and consider them weaknesses and liabilites. (I never thought I'd see the day I sympathised with Attolia, but here it is, yo :P)

Secondly, she didn't do anything because Eugenides is crazy as hell. She doesn't know if he's lying, if he's serious, if this is all a horrible joke--I mean, he's utterly unpredictable, and for all she knows, angry enough at what she did to him to kill her. So *shrug* That's just what I think, but then, I probably need to read it again.

[jesusphreaq.livejournal.com]

Eugenides is crazy as hell. Yes. Just before this she thought that if she looked for the real keeper of the underground docks, she would find him not unconscious, not bound and gagged but dead. We readers know that Gen is not so cutthroat (oops, I think there's a pun in there), but she assumes that he has changed that much.

Bahaha, if you even care about this question anymore. This is very far back in the entries. ^_^

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

Good, I'm glad someone else is asking "retardedly in-depth questions" (thanks, Bear) besides me.

Weapon: Marriage proposal

Ha.

Eugenides is crazy as hell

Ha again. I agree with this. He's a loose cannon and she was probably sure that he was going to kill her. If you read the scene paying attention to Attolia, she seems terrified.

We asked MWT what Gen would have done if Attolia had refused to marry him, but I don't think we got an answer. I'm certain he wouldn't have killed her. But I have no idea what he would have done, ditto if she had just refused to row to shore.

She didn't have the paddle until after they made the deal, so she couldn't have hit him until later. In rereading this I see that he had been steering with his hook, but after she had the paddle he steers with his hand to keep the arm with the hook free. I never noticed that before. Hell, if he can get a sword away from an assassin, he can take a paddle from a queen.

I also wonder when Eddis and the Minister of War knew that Eugenides was going to propose to Attolia. Do you think they knew from the start? And I wonder why Attolia told him about listening outside his cell door. Was she telling him that she did feel regret over what she had done? Or what?

*sigh* So many questions.

[fabricalchemist.livejournal.com]

And I wonder why Attolia told him about listening outside his cell door.

I think she was concerned, even then, for him, and telling him that was her way of saying so--even if she didn't know it at the time she was listening. Remember the analogy about the broken amphora?

[cyberskiver.livejournal.com]

That's very true. Attolia does seem scared, and it would probably be out of character for her to get violent with a paddle. She might be scary, but she's not some kind of warrior queen.

In rereading this I see that he had been steering with his hook, but after she had the paddle he steers with his hand to keep the arm with the hook free.

Wow, I hadn't noticed that. Clearly Eugenides is very good at expecting the unexpected. *moment of Gen appreciation*

I always thought that Attolia told him about listening outside the door to see how he would respond. She already observed how much he'd changed, maybe she wanted to remind him about how vulnerable he'd once been? Except in that sort of situation reminding him of how much she'd hurt him probably wouldn't have been a smart thing to do, so maybe not.

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

Yes, I've never been sure if she wanted to see his reaction, or if she was saying "I didn't just chop your hand off then forget about you. I was worried about you so I at least came back to see if you were still alive."

Maybe it was her way of punishing herself for what she had done. Just like she made herself watch Relius being questioned.

She makes a lot of comments you could take two ways, throughout the book. Once you know she has a heart, you reread them and interpret them differently.

[(Anonymous)]

There was a lot of repetition in this scene about the "mask" that Gen was wearing...he wasn't showing his feelings or his vulnerability. Attolia is used to wearing a mask so she knows that whatever he's planning, she probably won't figure out. Plus, he's already proven himself extremely capable: what kind of man steals a queen out from right under the nose of her guards? or hops into a rowboat and steers it with one hand? past all those rocks she couldn't see? He was awfully familiar with the coastline.

Personally, I think it is possible to swim one handed, though it sounds like the water would have been frigid. All she knows is that: she can't swim, she can't return where they left from, she can't see the rocks, she has no idea where they are, so basically she has no choice but do or die. If she can't swim, it is reasonable to assume she has no experience on open water and could not sail even if she somehow gained control of the boat. And per her own experience with the mask over her feelings, she thinks him capable of murder. She hinted so about thinking the real guard was dead, not tied up or unconscious.

He didn't hand her the paddle until after she said yes, so she wouldn't have known that he couldn't sail to shore, so no way to call his bluff there. Besides, who would dare call the bluff of the Thief of Eddis? after having been abducted by him?

I doubt she could have clubbed him with the paddle. It's heavy and long, and he would have tons of time to react before she could get it anywhere up and near his head.

After all, his proposal, and shoring it up with how Eddis could survive as a poor country for a long time gave the impression that all of this was well-thought out and that if not for her sake, she should say yes for her country's sake (she's already shown she really loves her country and people).

He wouldn't have told her he loved her in the boat: it would be out of character and out of keeping with the mask over his feelings he was keeping up to be successful. He's very careful with his plans. The only time he ever failed before was when Attolia caught him in the woods.

Sorry for the long post...I just ended up rambling.

[fabricalchemist.livejournal.com]

Hoo, I think you nailed it. I need to go read this again.

But you bring up an interesting thought: for all of Attolia's plans and intrigues, she's pretty worthless (for lack of a better word) when it comes to defending herself in a pinch. Eddis could swim, or punch. Why would you not have some form of self-defense training if you were a queen?

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

Seems like she would have liked that, but was never allowed to do the things Eddis did. She had to wear velvet and embroider.

[(Anonymous)]

This is like the first book I've read where a princess (Eddis) actually had sword training.

[fabricalchemist.livejournal.com]

Oh, right.

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

*moment of Gen appreciation*

Or, of MWT appreciation.

[rowana.livejournal.com]

I also wonder when Eddis and the Minister of War knew that Eugenides was going to propose to Attolia. Do you think they knew from the start?

I think that was the point of the scene with her ministers and Gen proposing the idea. It was all about 'eliminating the instability of the queen', which was, I thought, her unmarried status. Which means that Gen was, in effect, telling them he'd marry her.

I could be wrong. :) Need to re-read.

[(Anonymous)]

I think at least Eddis knew. Right before Gen and the others go down the mountain to kidnap Attoliain in QoA: p211 new softcover: Eddis stops Gen, he stops turns around says, "My Queen" and asks what she wanted. She replies "only that" the he smiles and repeats "My Queen".

Basically she knew Gen was going to ask Attolia to marry him and she wanted to hear him call her "My Queen" one last time. As when he got back, and was engaged to Attolia, Attolia would now be His Queen.

[rowana.livejournal.com]

Gosh, I completely missed this post until I skimmed through the main page today. Which is a shame, because you've started an interesting discussion. :)

I agree with the others on most points. I think perhaps one question in particular whose answer can't be reliably guessed at is 'What would Gen have done had Attolia said no?', which we've already asked MWT. That seems like an interesting idea, and it's difficult to guess at Gen's possible actions. I'm not sure, I can't see him killing her. Perhaps he would have tried to convince her further, or force her into saying yes.

[cherryblosomjen.livejournal.com]

The Magus made a point in KoA that I just love. He said that Egenides never gives up and he's never known to have failed. He suffers setbacks but in the end always gets what he sets out for.

In this way I think that if Attolia had refused him in the boat -- he would have found some way to change her mind.

Ok dannybailey (http://dannybailey.livejournal.com/), I'm ready for a fanfic describing Attolia's refusal to marry Gen, and his subsequent decision to detour the boat and convince her of his sincerity. Maybe he'll decide to pay a visit to the Medes to show her what her country would be like if overrun by them (although, of course, she would already have known) and in the course of their adventures she realizes her feelings for him? I don't know, it's just a thought (aka random plot bunny).

[sunbeamchica.livejournal.com]

Also, if Attolia had somehow been able to escape Gen from the row boat or even if she had been able to kill him, Eddis's ministers would have been waiting for her at the top of the cliff, so she really had no choice. I agree with everyone's points of why she probably wouldn't have called Gen's bluff. It's nice to imagine what would have happened if she did though! :)

Speaking of 'what ifs'...what if Gen's capture of the queen had gone according to plan and Naseaureah (spelling?) had not shown up to rescue her? Would Attolia become a puppet queen to Eddis and never known her love for Gen? Oooh! This is why I love MWT's books...there are so many 'what ifs' and possibilities!

from,
Jessica

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

Excellent point. That's something Caroline talked about in another thread, that it changed the dynamic when it became more Attolia's choice, rather than just Eugenides forcing her into marriage. And I think that choice was part of the catalyst of her realizing that she loved him, or at least that she was willing to marry him.

[sunbeamchica.livejournal.com]

*nods head*...yep, I totally agree :)

from,
Jessica