It's a great day when you get to go buy 50 new books for your library

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

Including a beautiful, shiny KoA. And, in honor of fabricalchemist, Kingdom Hearts graphic novels.

caroline_k and I had similar thoughts about Megan's answer re: Gen's tendency to poke/provoke.


"Yeah, Gen does have a tendency to provoke eveyone, thats what makes him so entertaining, lol.But it seems to me he knows just where to draw the line too, or mostly he does. I'm thinking about that scene in KOA where Gen tells Teleus and co. to invoke Hephestia in front of Attolia so she would spare him. To me, he just went a little too far there- I mean, he knows she loves him, but to remind her of such a painful memory was a little...tactless maybe? I just think that wasn't the way in which he should have reminded her about it. The 'slap' scene was chilling, but I kinda thought Gen deserved it (and the make-up scene was beautiful; really fleshed out their relationship)

Gen knows the polite attention will unsettle Relius.

Speaking of Relius, I was personally touched to see his almost religious devotion to Attolia in this book. From reading Qoa I was under the impression that no one was really that loyal to her, and they served her out of fear. To quote KOA:
" If I were imprisoned for fifty years (...) I would crawl, if that was all I could do, to her feet to serve her."

Thats some pretty powerful loyality!(he actually seemed sort of .....dare I say it... in LOVE with her, almost!) So I'm wondering then, why Atotlia needs a neutral party to unite her country, when she is capable of commanding such loyality herself? Or wait, maybe Relius is like her 'godfather' in the sense that he taught her everything she knows. I guess I personally think Attolia could unite Attolia , but given the history and mentality of the people, this isn't realistic. (Eddis is the woman power! sort of queen, lol)

Sorry to go off on so many tangents, everyone; I hope this hasn't been discussed already."


Megan's answer gave me a lot more insight into why Gen does the things he does. I knew this about him (he especially pokes people in Thief), but never thought about it while reading KoA.


I don't think Gen went too far by giving Telius the "magic words". He only had a few minutes to decide what to do and was trying to save several people. I think he really blamed himself for his injury since he hadn't had the gardens secured. I didn't think Gen deserved the slap, especially in front of other people. OTOH, I thought he did deserve the slap in QoA when he called Irene a puppet queen.

I wondered whether Relius might be in love with Attolia, too. What do you all think? And how else has Gen provoked people in KoA?

Comments

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

Effortless lj cuts! I rock!

And if anyone cares what books I bought, I'll put them on my weblog.

[anon8.livejournal.com]

very nice cuts! and cool book choices too :)

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

Thank you! :)

[rowana.livejournal.com]

Emo crap! *headbops to 'My Chemical Romance'*

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

*dances around the room*

[rowana.livejournal.com]

Georgette Heyer! I enjoyed Frederica - never got around to reading The Grand Sophy.

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

It's my first book of hers although I've been meaning to read her for a long time. I'm only on chapter 2, but I am completely and irrevocably in love.

[rowana.livejournal.com]

The only problem with Heyer is that a lot of her books tend to follow the same pattern. After the first five, I found they were getting repetitive. :) But you may be able to find more variation.

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

If that's the case, I'll get bored with them. But this first one is great.

[anon8.livejournal.com]

so...my 2 cents:
Totally agree with Caroline that the slap scene was chilling, but it did show that he wasn't afraid to stand up to her and tell her she directly that she was wrong. Telling an angry woman she's wrong...hrm...not the greatest idea but he kinda deserved it cuz of his last commment: it really put her over the edge. I didn't think the slap in QoA was deserved because he was telling her the truth and she knew it, and her slap was more because she was peeved and because she wanted to show off for the Mede.

Like Checkers, I think he did the right thing to relay the invocation to Teleus because the queen was MAD and only something that powerful/shocking could get her to reconsider. Teleus may have deserved some sort of punishment for not protecting the king, but I think Gen saw beyond that: that Teleus was the one who could lead the Royal Guard, that the other soldiers respected and listened to him. Plus Aris and his squad definately didn't deserve to die: they really thought they were doing their job with the hounds.

Relius might love the queen, but I would describe it more as utter devotion than love, cuz it's not really 'romantic love' in that sense. He helped make her what she is, but she did the same for him, rewarding him with power and money for his services, so he sorta owes her too. I think it's really the people who are close to her (Teleus, Relius, attendants) who love her because they know her; the rest of the country's kinda afraid of her, and her more powerful barons really don't like how she has centralized the power away from their fealties.

[rowana.livejournal.com]

Relius might love the queen, but I would describe it more as utter devotion than love, cuz it's not really 'romantic love' in that sense. He helped make her what she is, but she did the same for him, rewarding him with power and money for his services, so he sorta owes her too. I think it's really the people who are close to her (Teleus, Relius, attendants) who love her because they know her; the rest of the country's kinda afraid of her, and her more powerful barons really don't like how she has centralized the power away from their fealties.

I agree, I think you see the same sort of love from the guards too, the devotion and loyalty, and the sense that they would march into hell for her, but a complete lack of any 'romantic' love. :) I'd have thought the people of the country would feel the same sort of loyalty and faint love for the queen - because of who and what she is - and isn't this shown in their anger at Gen for coming along and usurping her throne? She seemed almost iconic to them, and then Gen came along and ruined all that.

:) But yes, I agree anon.

[caroline-k.livejournal.com]

OO! *slaps forehead* This makes sense, Queen Ro! I didn't even think of the guards. Cause otherwiese, Relius would be really jealous of Gen too right? Like Dite was.

What my real question was why then does Attolia need a neutral party to unite Attolia? It seems to me theere are only a few barons here and there thaty do not like her rule. I do love Gen being King and everything,but Attolia was an amazing queen for such a long time, its kinda weird that she'd just 'thrown in the towel' so quickly , you know?

[rowana.livejournal.com]

What my real question was why then does Attolia need a neutral party to unite Attolia? It seems to me theere are only a few barons here and there thaty do not like her rule. I do love Gen being King and everything,but Attolia was an amazing queen for such a long time, its kinda weird that she'd just 'thrown in the towel' so quickly , you know?

I think empmai has put it better further down, but one quote that seemed to sum it up for me was when Attolia comes to visit Relius (when Gen brings her), and Irene points out that Gen is afraid of stealing her power, and Relius replies 'But you would only be stronger'. I think the point was that though only a few barons may actively oppose her rule, or dislike her, the barony still needs to be united for any victory against the Mede to be possible. I remember in QoA there were references to numerous barons who happily supported Nahusaresh. Irene can't afford that again.

And I don't think that it's as if Gen becomes King, and Irene is almost demoted to simply 'The King's Wife'. He never remakes her descisions, for example, no matter what she said before she slapped him. Only asked her to reconsider. Er, albeit in no uncertain terms.

:) That's my take.

[caroline-k.livejournal.com]

I didn't think the slap in QoA was deserved because he was telling her the truth and she knew it, and her slap was more because she was peeved and because she wanted to show off for the Mede.

I agree here, anon. I was mad when she slapped him in that scene too.

I think he did the right thing to relay the invocation to Teleus because the queen was MAD and only something that powerful/shocking could get her to reconsider. Teleus may have deserved some sort of punishment for not protecting the king, but I think Gen saw beyond that: that Teleus was the one who could lead the Royal Guard, that the other soldiers respected and listened to him. Plus Aris and his squad definately didn't deserve to die: they really thought they were doing their job with the hounds.

Ah yes, this is true. I guess I was only thinking about Gen and Atotlia's relationship, I forgot there were lives at stake. But I still think it was a really personal thing to bring up, like the whole wedding night 'crying' bit. Why did Gen have to tell everyone that? In both cases it was a VERY personal thing.

[anon8.livejournal.com]

Well, nobody except the Queen, King, and maybe Relius (who was still underground) knew the invocation and its significance, so it was sort of okay for everyone to hear it. The crying bit was definately personal, but it had shock value: an example of Gen poking people to see their reactions, and to throw cocky Dite off-guard. Only with Dite unsettled could Gen draw him into a private conversation and relate to Dite the sincerety of the King's love for the queen...he probably told Dite he cried too, and Dite believed him, and supported him because Dite realized that the Queen and King really did love each other...and that he, Dite, didn't have a chance on Earth to win her.

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

Anon, get thee to the chat! I've been hanging out there.

Yeah, I'm re-evaluating many things from the Gen-as-provoker viewpoint.

[empmai.livejournal.com]

Was the slap your talking about after the battle? I thought the reason she slapped him was because he was about to tell her he loved her again, and she didn't want him to say it in front of the Mede. ANd because she was peeved off :)

[anon8.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's right. And she was partly peeved because he had just told her she was going to become a puppet queen and sort of insinuating that he was more trustworthy than the handsome Mede, at least as far as loving her goes.

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

Yes, but I thought what put it over the line was his sarcasm in saying, "That's very impressive." He had kidnapped her and she was doing all she could to get out of that situation while avoiding treating with the Medes. She was trying very hard to not be a shadow queen or a puppet queen.

Although I agree that she wanted to shut up any declarations of love. Do you think she would really have kicked him? That's pretty low.

[empmai.livejournal.com]

Ohh, she kicked him too? Didn't remember that. Diffently low and Unnecessary to shut him up. Then again he did just try to kidnap her and unsurp her throne and to her knowledge make her a puppet Queen so she had a tiny bit right to be peeved off at Gen and helping her pissed offness was that the only plan she could think of to get out of being a Mede puppet Queen was letting Gen get his way and be King.

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

Yes to all that. She didn't kick him, she thought about it to make sure he didn't say anything else.

[fabricalchemist.livejournal.com]

HOLY CRAP DUDE!!! *_* What library did you say you worked at, again??

[empmai.livejournal.com]

Just posting to say I'm so jealous......

[empmai.livejournal.com]

Hi I'm sorry I don't know how to go back and edit to add more to my post.

In reply to Caroline
________
"So I'm wondering then, why Atotlia needs a neutral party to unite her country, when she is capable of commanding such loyality herself?"
________

I got the impression that she needed a "King" because while she could command the barons and held their respect, they didn't quite get the 'never going to marry message' and so as long as she didn't have a husband there was always the chance (in their mind) one of them could eventually marry her and become the King. Also she needed a strong King: if her husband was weak the nobles could still hold the hope of
a) controling the king and therefore controling the crown
b) kill the king and then your back to the possibility that Attolia might marry you and therefore you become king.
The neutral part because if she picked one baron over another to be king then the unchosen Baron would be upset and likely throw a hissy fit. Sort of like what happened back on the elementary school playground when you could only choose one partner and you had to pick between your two Best Friends.

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

Well said.

[sprite6.livejournal.com]

Nicely put. Plus a single queen is a risk to the country's stability because there's no direct line of succession. If the queen dies without a direct heir, there could be a civil war over the throne. (This was a big concern in England when Elizabeth I took the throne.) If that uncertainty is removed, however, a baron has less to gain by scheming against her - he can't take the throne, nor can an ally. And since he needn't fear one of his enemies taking the throne, he can relax.

[empmai.livejournal.com]

I totally forgot about the succession - diffently a problem because I don't the Queen even has any close cousins in line for sucession.

[caroline-k.livejournal.com]

OOH! So did I! I think in the Theif or the QOA there was a line about Eddis 's nobles wanting her to marry one of Attolia's cousins (yes.. I ve read them too many times, lol) but I don't think it would be close enough to be heir, or a strong one at that. So its a good thing she married Gen.On a slightly different note, Gen's rather young to be married, isn't he? Not any complaints or anything, but its just one of the things that struck me when reading.

Thanks so much guys, I think I understand so much better.

[caroline-k.livejournal.com]

I got the same impression too, empmai. So does that mean Gen adn Attolia will rule in a partnreship? Cause it seemed to me that she was sort of just letting him rule, and she would fade into the background, something I didn't want her to do. I'm remembering the 'lilies you rule' scene. It seemed there that she wanted him to rule COMPLETELY. Or maybe I'm wrong and need to re-read the book. Again, lol :)

[sprite6.livejournal.com]

Speaking of Relius, I was personally touched to see his almost religious devotion to Attolia in this book. From reading Qoa I was under the impression that no one was really that loyal to her, and they served her out of fear.

That surprised me too. But after thinking about it, I realized that in QoA we saw Attolia largely through her own eyes, and she didn't believe herself lovable. She says something to that effect to Eddis, and even asks Gen, "Who am I that you should love me?" And she was the last to know how Dite felt about her, which is remarkable from a woman whose entire life has revolved around watching the members of a court.

So I don't think she really understood that Relius and Teleus were loyal out of love for her. When she muses in QoA that she's content to have her life in Teleus's hand, it seems cool because she's thinking that he hasn't been captain long enough to be corrupted. But she really trusts him; she just can't conceive of that trust in any other way because she's learned to trust no one. It's Gen who makes her see that she's worthy of love, and she is loved, and that she loves in return.

[rowana.livejournal.com]

When she muses in QoA that she's content to have her life in Teleus's hand, it seems cool because she's thinking that he hasn't been captain long enough to be corrupted. But she really trusts him; she just can't conceive of that trust in any other way because she's learned to trust no one. It's Gen who makes her see that she's worthy of love, and she is loved, and that she loves in return.

That was very well put. I agree.

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

in QoA we saw Attolia largely through her own eyes, and she didn't believe herself lovable. She says something to that effect to Eddis, and even asks Gen, "Who am I that you should love me?"

I completely agree. I thought it was very telling that when she first realizes she loves Eugenides, she asks herself, "who is he that I should love him?" but at the end when she knows him better and is facing what she has done to him, she says, "who am I that you should love me?"

[empmai.livejournal.com]

Where are the magic words from in QoA?

[anon8.livejournal.com]

the invocation to Hephestia: Attolia repeats part of it back to Gen when she's in the rowboat after he's proposed marriage to her...p. 191 in the hardcover

[(Anonymous)]

oooh. I LOVE it when you all answer your own questions!

~Megan