Crazy Theory

[inkasrain.livejournal.com]

Hello reprobates,

I've been re-reading QoA and KoA recently, and as I came up to the story of Klimun and Gerosthenes, a theory struck me like an unlikely lightening-bolt. Now, given my luck, this short theory has probably already been mentioned, considered, debated and debunked, but as it is late and my cursory search of Sounis tags has not revealed anything of this kind, I will relate it below.

Problem: Who is the Goddess who intervenes on Gen's behalf in the heart-stopping climax of QoA?

Proposed Theoretical Solution: This is the Goddess of the Moon with whom Klimun makes his bargain, and to whom a six-year-old Gen and his grandfather sacrificed when they visited Kathodicia.

What do you think? Have I just embarrassed myself by proposing a well-known red-herring?

Inky

Comments

[thelasteddis.livejournal.com]

...

Whoa. That is a pretty darn awesome idea. I've never heard it before. The only problem I think it presents is that quite a bit of Phresine's story is fictional, and since the moon goddess does not have a name it's possible that she is, as well. But I agree that this is very likely, nice theory!!!

[keestone.livejournal.com]

Is the story fictional as such? All the stories are stories, told different ways by different people. Perhaps the Attolian storyteller is slightly less comfortable identifying an old story of the gods as such?

It's an interesting theory.

[thelasteddis.livejournal.com]

At least Costis thinks it is - he says he was certain neither Kilimun nor Gerothenes had ever existed. I mean, that could be Costis misinterpreting, but it sounds like a hint on mwt's part to me. You know, trying to get the reader to want to know what Phresine meant by the story.

[(Anonymous)]

*clear throat* 'Costis didn't believe for a moment there had ever been a real Klimun or a real Gerosthenes'. (p.282, Greenwillow h/c)

I think it could be a possibility that Costis is not believing in the sense that we don't believe there was ever, for example, a real Theseus or any of those other ancient Greek heroes.

Perhaps Costis doesn't believe the mythology/religion therefore doesn't believe that the characters were real. That doesn't necessarily mean it isn't true. You know, at least in a world where Gen meets/talks to gods.

Admittedly, Costis is quick to pray when he's worried in Gen v Assassins but lots of people are sceptical about religion and still fall back on it in moments like that eg. in QoA, doesn't Attolia say something about how she was surprised how genuine Gen's 'My God' was, just before the hand-cutting?

Just my two pennies :)

~crazyviolin (who really wishes she could remember her lj password and promises she isn't actually a lurky lurker.)

[thelasteddis.livejournal.com]

That's the line I was thinking of. :)

What I meant was, Costis seemed to be under the impression that not only were they not real, they were specifically made up by Phresine. At least, that's how I interpreted it.

And NO REAL THESEUS? Thank you for crushing all my hopes and dreams, crazyviolin. I will be billing you for all the therapy needed in later life for loss of faith in my childhood heros. :-P

[(Anonymous)]

I do agree that's also likely. Phresine is awesome and that's totally something she would do.

And don't worry, there is no doubt some cutting edge research (by Rick Riordan perhaps?) that proves my first comment wrong re Theseus and I honestly wouldn't believe a single word I say. Lol :D

~crazyviolin

[thelasteddis.livejournal.com]

Goodness. You had me worried for a moment there. ;-)

[keestone.livejournal.com]

That's pretty much what I was thinking.

Would Gen have believed his stories about Eugenides had any reality behind them before he actually met the gods? (Actually, even with the existence of the gods, the factual reality behind the myths is still in question.) Phresine's story seems to have a similar mythological weight.

[(Anonymous)]

The Moon Goddess does show up in the Magus's first story about the gods, and most of the other gods from the stories ended up being real, so I would think the Moon Goddess is real as well.

Now I'm wondering if this might have anything to do with the "moon promises" mentioned in all three books.

moon promises

[sclerotia.livejournal.com]

This actually came up, but the explanation didn't come from me. "Moon promises" come from the creation myth in TT where the Moon promises to shine on the earth, but since the Moon waxes and wanes that promise had little value.

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

I am intrigued by your theory.

*ponders*

[shimotsuki.livejournal.com]

This is a really interesting theory. I've always wondered if there were clues to the identity of the mysterious goddess somewhere in the series. MWT does make sure Gen and we know it's a goddess -- maybe there's a reason for that.

As to how fictional Phresine's story was, it seems like there's another logical possibility: Maybe she (or someone else) made up Klimun and Gerosthenes, but there really was a Moon Goddess, at least in Kathodicia.

[(Anonymous)]

Just because Klimun and Gerosethenes (sp?) aren't real doesn't mean that the Moon Goddess is necessariy fictional too. After all, plenty of stories are told, not because their characters were real people, but rather to make a point. My question is, what point was Phesrine trying to make when she told that story to Gen? And why was Gen so uncomfortable throughout the story? I doubt Phresine would have known about Gen's encounter with the mystery goddess in QoA.

(a thousand apologies if this has already been discussed)

~ toastisyummy

[inkasrain.livejournal.com]

You know, I've been wondering this too. I feel really thick, but I just can't figure out what Gen took from this story that was so significant.

Thanks for everyone's thoughts! Here are a couple more ideas I've had:

In terms of whether this Moon Goddess exists, I tend to favor the opinion that pretty much any time a deity is mentioned in the series, it is meant as an indication to the reader that they are a presence in this world. Gen did say that all he remembered of Kathodicia was "towers of rock"; perhaps the remains of a temple to the Moon Goddess? In addition, we can probably assume that this Moon Goddess, if she exists, is at least one of the old Eddesian gods, and possibly even older, as Phresine mentions that this story takes place "in the time before the archaic."

Another subjective shred of proof, from a plotting viewpoint; I wondered why it was necessary at all for MWT to mention Gen's visit to Kathodicia, as it is not mentioned again, and does not add anything to Phresine's story or the overall plot of KoA. Not every shred of information has to be relevant, obviously, but Megan seems careful with details like this (ie falling rooftiles) and it's also seems to me like a bit of a bulky interruption to the flow of Phresine's words for a small piece of background information.

And last, complete conjecture: if this Moon Goddess exists, I wonder if it's possible that she took an interest in Gen as a fellow creature of the night. Thieves in general would be rather dependent on the moods of the moon in their work, wouldn't they?

What Gen took from the story

[(Anonymous)]

This is just my own personal interpretation, but I've always felt as if Phresine's point in telling the story was to remind Gen not to (figuratively) spit on the gifts the gods have given him. It all ties back to the idea of forgetting that the gods exist, or believing them to be less important or less powerful than they are. Gen knows the gods are real; maybe Phresine does, maybe she doesn't, and maybe that wasn't actually her intent in telling the story--but that's the relevancy that I think Gen took from it. I believe Gen was uncomfortable during the story because he saw that Klimun was about to lie to the foreign prince, and he was in moonlight; the moon goddess would have seen him break his promise to her and punished him. It always seemed to me like Gen was terrified at the idea of belittling the gods in such a way as to forget one's promises to them. I'm thinking this out as I write it, so forgive me if it's a little rough around the edges...this is not a fully-fleshed theory. Prior to this, i.e. while reading that particular scene, I always just thought to myself, "Oh, well, of course Gen would be uncomfortable with the idea of Klimun lying in front of the moon goddess, because HE knows how real the gods really are!" It never went much beyond that, into the real *why's* of the matter.

(By the way, this is drashizu, a some-time lurker. I deleted my lj account a while ago but now I think maybe there's cause to create another one.)

Re: What Gen took from the story

[(Anonymous)]

I just want to add something to my own post: when I say it all ties back to the idea of forgetting about, or belittling the gods, I mean that quote that keeps appearing in QoA. "Do not offend the gods." (Attolia especially has heard that a bunch of times...maybe Gen needs to hear it too?)

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

I like your theory -- but I'm still voting for Philia.