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queensthiefETA: Please keep your comments completely ACoK-Spoiler-Free so everyone can participate! :-)
Hello everybody! I hope you are ready for discussion times, because I am bringing them! (I hope.)
This week we read from "I didn't know how long I had been in the king's prison" to "As far as I could see there was nothing to steal, nothing at all."
Favorite line: If the king needed to know how many shafts of grain grew on a particular acre of land, the magus could tell him. If the king wanted to know how many farmers would starve if he burned that acre of grain, the magus knew that, too. (chapter 1, I don't know why, it just always makes me laugh)
Favorite scene: The entirety of chapter 7, for the "beating Gen for no reason" scary scene and the "let's tie Gen's hands too tight" scene. It's a moment of simple stupidty and arrogance on Ambiades's part, but it irrevocably seals Ambiades's and Gen's relationship.
Things to chew on (hopefully with our mouths closed, please): What gets me about this first section of the book is how brilliantly MWT uses first-person POV. From the occasional bits of present tense we know he's telling the story to someone, and within the first chapter he's given us plenty of reasons to think he's not just scum of the gutter based on the information he conveys which we, as the readers, take as par for the course without bothering to wonder why he knows so much about the history of the invaders and their socio-economic policies.
Also, we stopped halfway through the novel, and we're right before the beginning of the real plotty part of the book. Beautiful.
So, for discussion: Other clues about Gen's identity? Anyone else want to gush about how incredibly visual the descriptions are? How do people feel about Ambiades? What strikes all y'all about these chapters? Your favorite lines! Your favorite scenes!
Discuss away!
For next week: The Thief, chapters 8-12.
Hello everybody! I hope you are ready for discussion times, because I am bringing them! (I hope.)
This week we read from "I didn't know how long I had been in the king's prison" to "As far as I could see there was nothing to steal, nothing at all."
Favorite line: If the king needed to know how many shafts of grain grew on a particular acre of land, the magus could tell him. If the king wanted to know how many farmers would starve if he burned that acre of grain, the magus knew that, too. (chapter 1, I don't know why, it just always makes me laugh)
Favorite scene: The entirety of chapter 7, for the "beating Gen for no reason" scary scene and the "let's tie Gen's hands too tight" scene. It's a moment of simple stupidty and arrogance on Ambiades's part, but it irrevocably seals Ambiades's and Gen's relationship.
Things to chew on (hopefully with our mouths closed, please): What gets me about this first section of the book is how brilliantly MWT uses first-person POV. From the occasional bits of present tense we know he's telling the story to someone, and within the first chapter he's given us plenty of reasons to think he's not just scum of the gutter based on the information he conveys which we, as the readers, take as par for the course without bothering to wonder why he knows so much about the history of the invaders and their socio-economic policies.
Also, we stopped halfway through the novel, and we're right before the beginning of the real plotty part of the book. Beautiful.
So, for discussion: Other clues about Gen's identity? Anyone else want to gush about how incredibly visual the descriptions are? How do people feel about Ambiades? What strikes all y'all about these chapters? Your favorite lines! Your favorite scenes!
Discuss away!
For next week: The Thief, chapters 8-12.
no subject
Date: 1/22/10 09:50 pm (UTC)I know a couple of people volunteered for week 7, and a couple more for next week. I'm happy to take week 8 if no one else wants it, and there's always week 9 as well.
If y'all could work it out in replies to this comment, that would be awesome. :-)
no subject
Date: 1/22/10 09:58 pm (UTC)So, I read this part and was like "Omg" because of Gen's obivious choice in color of his clothing as King of Attolia. I guess it's safe to say he enjoys being as bright as a canary, and maybe it's even his favorite color.
no subject
Date: 1/22/10 10:01 pm (UTC)Geography fail!
Really though, I love rereading Thief. I love getting to meet Gen again. And he has both hands! I had a little start each time he used the right hand, or both hands.
Favorite line: I told him that no, I wasn't illegitimate. "I even have brothers and sisters," I told him, "with the same father."
And now I want to know: where are these brothers and sisters? Other than Stenides, of course.
no subject
Date: 1/22/10 10:05 pm (UTC)when you said "things to chew on" my IMMEDIATE reaction was to make a mouth closed getting told off by the Magus joke. Except you then did that!
*glomps* Freaky mind reading ftw! also you are so adorably organised with this. It makes me happy.
Regarding Ambiades
Date: 1/22/10 10:13 pm (UTC)Also, completely unrelated, I can't seem to delete any icons to upload one of my Gen ones...
no subject
Date: 1/22/10 10:39 pm (UTC)p 16: They are getting the horses ready to leave and the Magus reams somebody out about missing items. "By the time the idiot returned, I could see he was carrying a small square leather case, which he dropped into the saddlebag." What's in there? Magus's compass? Gen's thieving tools? Why do I care? I always think that if Megan mentioned it, it must be important.
p 51: What's red shank and green shank? Well, I looked it up. Here's red shank. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adenostoma_sparsifolium) It grows in California.
p 61: Ambiades mentions Sophos's father. If the king is Sophos's uncle, why isn't Sophos's father heir to the throne? Actually, I think I know the answer to this after reading the new book.
p 63: The myth of the earth's creation. She takes a piece of herself and makes the sun and the moon. A bit like Eve's creation in the Bible.
p 64: The Sky creates humans. "Every speck of dust grew into a human..." Remember at the end of QoA when Gen feels like a speck of dust? Cool.
p 77: The woodcutter and his wife want a child. The Earth brings them one. Next page, when Earth is talking to the Sky, she says, "I have the my own son and the woodcutter's." My sticky note says, "Now wait a minute..." Obviously some integral part was glossed over here. :)
p 84: What do wooden swords look like?
p 85: Describing Sophos's swordplay. "With a good instructor, he'd be a dangerous opponent. Sticky note: "Yay!"
p 108: Dystopia. That's not what that word usually means--is it also used to refer to a desolate place where nothing grows? Are there really places like that, where lava cooled and solidified long ago, and plants can't take root? This one I've been too lazy to go and look up, but it's mostly the word usage I've wondered about.
What do y'all think about some of this stuff?
Re: p 61
Date: 1/22/10 10:46 pm (UTC)Re: Regarding Ambiades
Date: 1/22/10 10:48 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 1/22/10 10:52 pm (UTC)Ok...
Clues: I think the biggest one is in chap. 7, when Gen is thinking about his relatives. "but if there hadn't been one that I loved, I wouldn't have landed myself in the king's prison." As a first time reader I just skipped over this line, partially because I have a tendency to not try and solve puzzles while reading, but let the story unfold as I read. But really, this is pretty blatant. In his cover story, what possible role could a relative have played in Gen's reason for stealing the king's seal? This is an obvious hint, yet there is not enough information to really ponder at this point, so I and probably many readers didn't even notice it.
My favorite line is in chap. 3, when Gen is ignoring the Magus's orders, staring at his empty oatmeal bowl.
"[The Magus] cuffed me on the back of the head. 'What?' I said. 'Were you specifically addressing me? I thought I was supposed to ignore those--"
as well as
"'I thought that you could steal anything,' he taunted.
'Except myself out of the king's prison,' I agreed."
I think I like both these lines so much because I can really visualize them and hear the inflection of their voices so well. And the lines are just so...Gen.
My favorite scene is, like Jade, all of chap. 7, especially the scene where Gen is beaten with the aforementioned riding crop. I love how he then jumps effortlessly on the horse and snaps the reigns. This reveals so much about his personality, how he complains for fun but is really very capable of doing whatever he wants to do.
Ambiades...I feel like his main issue is selfishness. He knows what he is doing is wrong and he feels terribly guilty about it, but he believes that what he wants is money and power, and he will sacrifice anything to get that. The character I'm loving this time through is Pol. He is so stoic and yet very protective of Sophos, more than can be explained away by citing his duty. He does care deeply about these people he is with, as is evidenced later in the book when he pushes Ambiades. I think the scene where he chats with Sophos and the other when he unties Gen and gives his monologue really set this up well.
I really like how the relationships develop throughout this book. Gen says on the last page of the book (sorry to keep referencing things later in the book, since we're only discussing the first 7) "It was a relief to explain everything...what I'd thought of the magus in the beginning and what I thought of him in the end." This really shows in the development of the book. The boys go from being just The Uselesses to very separate, individual people, and the way Gen feels about each is very clear. We don't just jump into the story and immediately understand who each character is. It is as if we were really on the journey with them, slowly discovering them.
Finally, I have three questions.
1) The magus says that he thinks the current Thief of Eddis is named Eugenides. Is he referring to our Gen? Or his grandfather? This confuses me because his grandfather was dead by this point, but I also don't think Gen was officially Thief until he brought back the gift.
2) In chap 2, did Gen really see Philonikes, someone he knew, or did he just pretend because he wanted to see magus's reaction?
3) Did anyone out there, on their first read, suspect where the book was going, who Gen really was? I'm curious, because I had no idea.
This is quite long enough now.
Thanks!
no subject
Date: 1/22/10 11:02 pm (UTC)One shop near the corner sold only earrings, and I watched wistfully as it went by. We were too far away and there was too much traffic to allow even a glimpse of the merchandise displayed in its window.
As far as clues go...I really don't remember if I had a clue about Gen being high born the first time I read TT. I think I did, but it may be because I read a little of the end before I finished the book. But on rereading, I'm pretty sure I realized he was at least more than "scum of the gutter", and had ulterior motives. There are some instances in which he makes a point of trying to appear scummy/guttery. He carefully chews with his mouth open, and is proud of the way he slurs and swallows word endings and that sort of thing.
I did not think anything of him being named Eugenides, as anyone can be named after a god. My name is Kristin, after all. I am not in the least Christ-like. My parents may have had hopes, or they may just have liked the name. *shrugs*
Re: Regarding Ambiades
Date: 1/22/10 11:07 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 1/22/10 11:08 pm (UTC)I have always wondered about Philonikes! That whole incident seemed so pointed to me.
Good point about the relative quote. I was just confused by this on first read, and stored it away as something that would be explained later.
Pol-love, yay!
no subject
Date: 1/22/10 11:13 pm (UTC)"We might someday attain a relationship of mutual respect," he said softly. First, I thought, I will see gods walking the earth.
~foreshadowing!!!
no subject
Date: 1/22/10 11:14 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 1/22/10 11:36 pm (UTC)Is there any book evidence either way?
no subject
Date: 1/22/10 11:40 pm (UTC)pg 16
Date: 1/22/10 11:47 pm (UTC)"a small square leather case"
vs.
"The tools of my trade, wrapped in a piece of leather."
Dang you, now I'm going to wonder what pg. 16 was referring to!
(Am I getting too in to this :)
no subject
Date: 1/22/10 11:49 pm (UTC)Yes, and why are the sisters only 'mostly honest'? *is intrigued*
no subject
Date: 1/23/10 12:03 am (UTC)But I have my doubts. We may never know. SHE may NEVER TELL.
no subject
Date: 1/23/10 12:19 am (UTC)*is also intrigued*
no subject
Date: 1/23/10 12:22 am (UTC)I'm sure he sent some cousins to make sure Gen was doing what he was suppose to be and not.. messing around ;)
no subject
Date: 1/23/10 12:23 am (UTC)Re: Three Questions
Date: 1/23/10 12:24 am (UTC)2) I wondered that myself. The jury is still out. Doing it just to see the Magus's reaction is such a Gen-ish thing to do, though.
3) Not at all. When I reread it, I saw the clues and kept asking myself how I could have missed them, but the first time I was way too busy being amused and absorbed to uncover the twist.
no subject
Date: 1/23/10 12:26 am (UTC)*snorts in appreciation*
no subject
Date: 1/23/10 12:28 am (UTC)