COMMUNITY READALONG, PART 1: The Thief, chs. 1-7

[jade-sabre-301.livejournal.com]

ETA: Please keep your comments completely ACoK-Spoiler-Free so everyone can participate! :-)

Hello everybody! I hope you are ready for discussion times, because I am bringing them! (I hope.)

This week we read from "I didn't know how long I had been in the king's prison" to "As far as I could see there was nothing to steal, nothing at all."

Favorite line: If the king needed to know how many shafts of grain grew on a particular acre of land, the magus could tell him. If the king wanted to know how many farmers would starve if he burned that acre of grain, the magus knew that, too. (chapter 1, I don't know why, it just always makes me laugh)

Favorite scene: The entirety of chapter 7, for the "beating Gen for no reason" scary scene and the "let's tie Gen's hands too tight" scene. It's a moment of simple stupidty and arrogance on Ambiades's part, but it irrevocably seals Ambiades's and Gen's relationship.

Things to chew on (hopefully with our mouths closed, please): What gets me about this first section of the book is how brilliantly MWT uses first-person POV. From the occasional bits of present tense we know he's telling the story to someone, and within the first chapter he's given us plenty of reasons to think he's not just scum of the gutter based on the information he conveys which we, as the readers, take as par for the course without bothering to wonder why he knows so much about the history of the invaders and their socio-economic policies.

Also, we stopped halfway through the novel, and we're right before the beginning of the real plotty part of the book. Beautiful.

So, for discussion: Other clues about Gen's identity? Anyone else want to gush about how incredibly visual the descriptions are? How do people feel about Ambiades? What strikes all y'all about these chapters? Your favorite lines! Your favorite scenes!

Discuss away!

For next week: The Thief, chapters 8-12.

Comments

[jade-sabre-301.livejournal.com]

Hey people interested in leading discussions:

I know a couple of people volunteered for week 7, and a couple more for next week. I'm happy to take week 8 if no one else wants it, and there's always week 9 as well.

If y'all could work it out in replies to this comment, that would be awesome. :-)

[elle-winters.livejournal.com]

"My tunic had started life a cheerful yellow that I'd thought was dashing when I'd gotten it from a merchant in the lower city."

So, I read this part and was like "Omg" because of Gen's obivious choice in color of his clothing as King of Attolia. I guess it's safe to say he enjoys being as bright as a canary, and maybe it's even his favorite color.

[lizzyazula.livejournal.com]

I noticed that too! I think we've stumbled upon a Useless Fact Everyone Should Know.

Useless Fact Everyone Should Know:

Gen's Favorite color: YELLOW.

Actually, if I was Attolia, I'd be angry at his choice in color of clothes too. A king should wear different shades of rich reds. Not yellow.

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

ME TOO!

ME TOO!

CANARY YELLOW RULES!

*\0/*

Cheerleader is intellectual property of tiegirl

[ilysia-039.livejournal.com]

Do you know I just realized how absolutely directional challenged I am? All these years I've been imaging Sounis in the east and Attolia to the west, with the oft-mentioned sea to the south, only to realize that Sounis is, in fact, in the west and Attolia in the east. *face palm*

Geography fail!

Really though, I love rereading Thief. I love getting to meet Gen again. And he has both hands! I had a little start each time he used the right hand, or both hands.

Favorite line: I told him that no, I wasn't illegitimate. "I even have brothers and sisters," I told him, "with the same father."

And now I want to know: where are these brothers and sisters? Other than Stenides, of course.

[katyhasclogs.livejournal.com]

And now I want to know: where are these brothers and sisters? Other than Stenides, of course.

Yes, and why are the sisters only 'mostly honest'? *is intrigued*

[elle-winters.livejournal.com]

That was a definite LOL for me when I first read TT, it still is, I love that line, because I, just like Sophos, thought that Gen had tons of bad misfortune and tragedies in his life, I mean how else does one end in the king's prison?

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

This may not be your fault. Megan says she can't read a map.

[styromgalleries.livejournal.com]

OT, Ilysia, but I LOVE your icon!!

[styromgalleries.livejournal.com]

Also, speaking of geography fail, sometimes I try to keep up with those kinds of things, but they usually don't make sense to me at all. I have NO sense of direction. Even with a map, it usually doesn't help me. I kow the layout of Middle-earth pretty well after 11 or 12 reads, but when directions are given, they don't make sense. Haha.

[emerald-happy.livejournal.com]

ahaha,

when you said "things to chew on" my IMMEDIATE reaction was to make a mouth closed getting told off by the Magus joke. Except you then did that!

*glomps* Freaky mind reading ftw! also you are so adorably organised with this. It makes me happy.

Regarding Ambiades

[avian-xj.livejournal.com]

I'm finding that I like him a lot more this time around which is not something I expected. He reminds me rather of my younger brother who is at that age where he tries to be disagreeable just to be disagreeable. For some reason, that makes him a little bit more lovable - I understand a bit more of where he's coming from.

Also, completely unrelated, I can't seem to delete any icons to upload one of my Gen ones...

Re: Regarding Ambiades

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

That happened to me recently. A couple of days later I was suddenly able to add and delete icons again. Weird.

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

When I read, I ask myself random questions continually. Maybe that's why I'm so slow. :) Here's what my sticky notes say from my recent reread (all page numbers are from the original hardback):

p 16: They are getting the horses ready to leave and the Magus reams somebody out about missing items. "By the time the idiot returned, I could see he was carrying a small square leather case, which he dropped into the saddlebag." What's in there? Magus's compass? Gen's thieving tools? Why do I care? I always think that if Megan mentioned it, it must be important.

p 51: What's red shank and green shank? Well, I looked it up. Here's red shank. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adenostoma_sparsifolium) It grows in California.

p 61: Ambiades mentions Sophos's father. If the king is Sophos's uncle, why isn't Sophos's father heir to the throne? Actually, I think I know the answer to this after reading the new book.

p 63: The myth of the earth's creation. She takes a piece of herself and makes the sun and the moon. A bit like Eve's creation in the Bible.

p 64: The Sky creates humans. "Every speck of dust grew into a human..." Remember at the end of QoA when Gen feels like a speck of dust? Cool.

p 77: The woodcutter and his wife want a child. The Earth brings them one. Next page, when Earth is talking to the Sky, she says, "I have the my own son and the woodcutter's." My sticky note says, "Now wait a minute..." Obviously some integral part was glossed over here. :)

p 84: What do wooden swords look like?

p 85: Describing Sophos's swordplay. "With a good instructor, he'd be a dangerous opponent. Sticky note: "Yay!"

p 108: Dystopia. That's not what that word usually means--is it also used to refer to a desolate place where nothing grows? Are there really places like that, where lava cooled and solidified long ago, and plants can't take root? This one I've been too lazy to go and look up, but it's mostly the word usage I've wondered about.

What do y'all think about some of this stuff?

Re: p 61

[ilysia-039.livejournal.com]

You know, I've wondered that myself. Except I haven't read the new book (lucky!), so I fear I'm still wondering. Wondering and forming insane, abstract theories...

[mortalasabee.livejournal.com]

Thanks for organizing this! This is going to be fun.
Ok...
Clues: I think the biggest one is in chap. 7, when Gen is thinking about his relatives. "but if there hadn't been one that I loved, I wouldn't have landed myself in the king's prison." As a first time reader I just skipped over this line, partially because I have a tendency to not try and solve puzzles while reading, but let the story unfold as I read. But really, this is pretty blatant. In his cover story, what possible role could a relative have played in Gen's reason for stealing the king's seal? This is an obvious hint, yet there is not enough information to really ponder at this point, so I and probably many readers didn't even notice it.

My favorite line is in chap. 3, when Gen is ignoring the Magus's orders, staring at his empty oatmeal bowl.
"[The Magus] cuffed me on the back of the head. 'What?' I said. 'Were you specifically addressing me? I thought I was supposed to ignore those--"
as well as
"'I thought that you could steal anything,' he taunted.
'Except myself out of the king's prison,' I agreed."
I think I like both these lines so much because I can really visualize them and hear the inflection of their voices so well. And the lines are just so...Gen.

My favorite scene is, like Jade, all of chap. 7, especially the scene where Gen is beaten with the aforementioned riding crop. I love how he then jumps effortlessly on the horse and snaps the reigns. This reveals so much about his personality, how he complains for fun but is really very capable of doing whatever he wants to do.

Ambiades...I feel like his main issue is selfishness. He knows what he is doing is wrong and he feels terribly guilty about it, but he believes that what he wants is money and power, and he will sacrifice anything to get that. The character I'm loving this time through is Pol. He is so stoic and yet very protective of Sophos, more than can be explained away by citing his duty. He does care deeply about these people he is with, as is evidenced later in the book when he pushes Ambiades. I think the scene where he chats with Sophos and the other when he unties Gen and gives his monologue really set this up well.

I really like how the relationships develop throughout this book. Gen says on the last page of the book (sorry to keep referencing things later in the book, since we're only discussing the first 7) "It was a relief to explain everything...what I'd thought of the magus in the beginning and what I thought of him in the end." This really shows in the development of the book. The boys go from being just The Uselesses to very separate, individual people, and the way Gen feels about each is very clear. We don't just jump into the story and immediately understand who each character is. It is as if we were really on the journey with them, slowly discovering them.

Finally, I have three questions.
1) The magus says that he thinks the current Thief of Eddis is named Eugenides. Is he referring to our Gen? Or his grandfather? This confuses me because his grandfather was dead by this point, but I also don't think Gen was officially Thief until he brought back the gift.
2) In chap 2, did Gen really see Philonikes, someone he knew, or did he just pretend because he wanted to see magus's reaction?
3) Did anyone out there, on their first read, suspect where the book was going, who Gen really was? I'm curious, because I had no idea.

This is quite long enough now.
Thanks!

[tiegirl.livejournal.com]

I thought Gen was the Thief before he went to Sounis. I figured the magus knew of him, but had never seen him. I don't have any book data to back up that interpretation, though.

I have always wondered about Philonikes! That whole incident seemed so pointed to me.

Good point about the relative quote. I was just confused by this on first read, and stored it away as something that would be explained later.

Pol-love, yay!

[tiegirl.livejournal.com]

I had a snicker-out-loud moment on page 19.

One shop near the corner sold only earrings, and I watched wistfully as it went by. We were too far away and there was too much traffic to allow even a glimpse of the merchandise displayed in its window.

As far as clues go...I really don't remember if I had a clue about Gen being high born the first time I read TT. I think I did, but it may be because I read a little of the end before I finished the book. But on rereading, I'm pretty sure I realized he was at least more than "scum of the gutter", and had ulterior motives. There are some instances in which he makes a point of trying to appear scummy/guttery. He carefully chews with his mouth open, and is proud of the way he slurs and swallows word endings and that sort of thing.

I did not think anything of him being named Eugenides, as anyone can be named after a god. My name is Kristin, after all. I am not in the least Christ-like. My parents may have had hopes, or they may just have liked the name. *shrugs*

[ilysia-039.livejournal.com]

I did not think anything of him being named Eugenides, as anyone can be named after a god. My name is Kristin, after all. I am not in the least Christ-like. My parents may have had hopes, or they may just have liked the name. *shrugs*

*snorts in appreciation*

[beatlelove927.livejournal.com]

A line I've always loved looking back is on pg. 8 of the paperback
"We might someday attain a relationship of mutual respect," he said softly. First, I thought, I will see gods walking the earth.

~foreshadowing!!!

[mortalasabee.livejournal.com]

That's one of my favorites too.

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

The hands-tied-too-tight scene really creeps me out, and always has, even the first time. Gen seems to feel it so intensely when someone messes with his hands -- and Pol's urgency when he comes back and sees it really shows that there was some danger there. After reading the other books, it's just even more creepy.

[elle-winters.livejournal.com]

yeah, I know what you mean..it really creeped me out too...

[lizzyazula.livejournal.com]

1) I actually found the time to read it. Yay!
2) I'm sorry if this has already been discussed (I tried reading through all the comments)
3) On page 103 (New US Paperback) Eugenides&Co reach the Sea of Olives, and the Magus says:

"It's called the Sea of Olives. It was planted to honor of one of the old gods so long ago no one remembers which one,"

Discovery! Aren't we are told this story in KoA by the beloved Phresine when Gen is sick in bed? Yes? No? Maybe so?

*too lazy to actually find page numbers*

[rosaleeluann.livejournal.com]

The story of Kilmun and Gerosthenes, according to Phresine, took place in Kathodicia in the North--a place Gen visited once with his Grandfather when he was young. I guess it's possible that she was refering to a Northern region of Attolia (though Eddis isn't North of Attolia unles the map in my head is COMPLETELY wrong, and they're coming from Eddis), but I had the impression that it was somewhat further than that.

Or MAYBE she said it took place there to make the story more long ago and far away and most certainly not meant to refer in any way to the boyish king to whom she is telling the story, who just insisted on a story that wasn't "instructive". If we decided that she did that, then it COULD be the Sea of Olives.

[thelasteddis.livejournal.com]

Well, since I'm the lamesauce I was unable to find time to read all seven chapters. But I found some cool points in the chapter I did read, which was believe it or not chapter one.

1) "My uncle used to keep that much under his bed and count it every night" -Gen, in reference to a bag of double-heavy gold coins. The most famous of Gen's uncles was the king of Eddis - You just know Gen was trying really hard not to snigger.

2) I noticed that in a paragraph describing Sounis' politics, it mentions the king having to drive Attolians out of the land on his side of the mountains. How did the Attolians get there? I remembered later that the Magus claims Attolia helped the invaders to invade Sounis. Were the invaders and Attolia allied, at least for a time? is that why Attolia was rewarded parts of Sounis, just as the invaders' other allies were?

3) Sounis, Sophos' uncle, is blond. This means blonds do exist in our quasi-Mediterranean world, and that the gene is in Sophos' bloodline.

4) On the line, "except yourself out of king's prison" the Magus raises one eyebrow, contradicting Helen's later claim that he never does that. Did he break the habit between TT and QoA, or was that a strange circumstance?

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Re(1) Not snigger indeed. I can just hear the subtle amusement in his voice, because we now know he's not actually impressed by that much money.

Re(4) Where is this contradiction?

[styromgalleries.livejournal.com]

Aw, rats! I just reread this a few weeks ago but I was going to go ahead and reread it again anyway, 'cause, what the hey? These books are awesome. And then all that happened with my grandmother...

I can't remember my favorite lines now. I just love Gen so much. He leaves us clues from the first few pages on. I noticed that he says about the king right there at the beginning, "He couldn't remember if I was as common as dirt" or something like that, and now I know that right there, Gen is revealing who he is. I love it!

See, I don't think I've ever gotten that he's telling the story to someone, or not until a lot of my lovely Sounisian girls pointed it out. But this time around, I did notice that it's strange that a supposed gutter rat knows so much about the history of Sounis that apparently not even many of the scholars know.

As far as what amuses me or just makes me smile:
-The most comfortable chair exchange, especially in the end when the magus turns it around on Gen
-The inkeeper's wife or whoever, when Gen cleans up so nicely and turns on the charm. I love charming Gen. I think that in those times, like when he's being sweet to Heiro, let's say, in KoA, he's being genuinely kind. We may not think of him as a sweet, kind person, but he is--or at least he has his moments. :)

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

We may not think of him as a sweet, kind person, but he is--or at least he has his moments.

You know what they say... He's a marshmallow.

I promise I'll stop the odes to Veronica Mars soon, but she just reminds me of him too much.

That's actually pretty typical behavior of royalty in European history. To be genial and affectionate one moment than switch to darkly enraged the next. It keeps the court on their toes.

In the end, Gen seems to be a reasonably sweet guy. He just has funny ways of expressing it. Such as: stealing Helen's necklace was a sign of affection as much as anything, and Costis's more hellish moments as the pet guard were laced with amusement rather than malice.

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

I'm glad you brought up his education. It was my #1 clue when I first read The Thief. I kept on thinking, either the poor are extremely well educated in Sounis (doubtful), Gen is somehow self-educated, or he is more than he seems... But what I still can't believe is how did I just glaze right over the whole "The Thief of Eddis has your name" part. I was expecting a twist, and I missed the billboard covered in neon paint!

*scorns own stupidity*

Mrs.Turner: Say it. Come on... You know you want to.

Lady Jane: *sighs* Megan Whalen Turner is smarter than me.

Mrs Turner: Oh, you... Stop it.

For all you fellow Veronica Mars fans out there.

[reader-marie.livejournal.com]

Mostly what I was struck by this time around were the moments when Gen is (or may be) manipulating the others' perceptions of him. For example, in chapter 3 (it's p31 in the hardcover ugly-Hephestia version), Gen gets up and finds the others washing up. "They looked up as Pol and I came in, and I could see that they all three expected me to resent more soap and water."

And so...

"'I washed last night,' I pointed out to the magus. 'Look' --I held up my arms -- 'I'm very clean. Why am I washing again?'"

He's completely manipulating their impression of him.

I also, with the knowledge of QoA and KoA (especially the latter) wonder about Gen's reaction when Pol breaks open the sore on his wrist (in chapter 2). Obviously he's in pain, but I'm beginning to wonder how much of it is performance, especially because in chapter 7 doesn't "bother to whimper suggestively" when Pol is working on his wrists. Hmm.

[(Anonymous)]

I totally love manipulative Gen. He makes this absolutely ferocious appearance in KoA, too, which I like better than slightly vicious Gen from QoA. I thin the biggest indication that Gen has an extremely high pain tolerance is actually in QoA. The boy doesn't even scream when they cut his freaking hand off, he just holds his breath until he passes out. Which on a somewhat other note, reminds me how much I love Attolia's reaction to Gen holding his breath after the assasination attempt, even though she almost blows Gen's cover by being concerned.

[faerietaleredux.livejournal.com]

my excuse for not being ready for the read-a-long is that my mom is finally reading the series, but is taking a very long time to be finished with "The Thief."

I'll be ready next week, promise :$

[elle-winters.livejournal.com]

maybe Gen really did JUST KNOW him and was like "Ooo somebody I knoww...HI PHILO!! LOOK I'M OUT OF PRISON AND I'M GOING TO STEAL ATTOLIA'S MIRCALE STONE...BUT REALLY I JUST WANTED TO SAY HI!"

or maybe not...

[sgwordy.livejournal.com]

I don't have much more to add to what has already been said but I wanted to also give my thanks for getting us going on a great read-along.

Also, I completely agree about the POV genius. There's so much to love about mwt's craft but this particular instance of it blows me out of the water. I think 1st person POV is one of the hardest to do well and so I love to just get into this book and roll around in all the awesomeness that is her use of this POV.