Evil, or just... persistent?

[drashizu.livejournal.com]

I've been wondering since reading the most recent book whether the Mede Empire can be called evil without being a little hypocritical. Certainly we don't want them to expand through our three little countries and make Eugenides's and everyone else's life less pleasant (or shorter). So I'm not suggesting changing their status to anything other than "The Bad Guys," but really, it could be said that they're just persistent and ambitious empire-builders. In some ways, the tactics they use are comparable to, say, Attolia's before she married Gen, or Sounis's, or any of the many meanie barons filling the two lowland countries.



Off the top of my head, first 3 things the Medes have done that are bad...

1. Nahuseresh urged Attolia to cut off Gen's hand. He did it intending to incite a violent political conflict. But honestly, he didn't make her do it, and he didn't make Eddis declare the subsequent war, either. Is this any more reprehensible than, on a smaller scale, Eugenides baiting Costis to punch him in the face? If you bait a dog, it bites. But as Teleus points out, men are not dogs.


2. He murdered barons while Attolia's back was turned. Murder's murder. Out of curiosity, I wonder how much of what he did in Attolia was okayed beforehand by his superiors back in the Fatherland? (er... the Mede Empire...)


3. He provided the services of the assassins that attacked Eugenides in KoA. But then, the king of Sounis paid for them and used them.

I bet there are more... yep, just thought of a fourth.

Anyway, to what extent are the things that the ambassadors have done out of the ordinary for the politics of this world? We know Attolia's court is already a cesspit; political murders happen all the time. A husband and a suitor both kicked the bucket at her hands alone, simply to secure her throne for herself. Although I recognize that these were ruthless things for her to do, truth be told they're part of what I like about her character. She's the Ice Queen.

When Sophos killed Hanaktos, I cheered, and then cheered again when he shot Akretenesh (which is inciting a war if I ever saw it! though, admittedly, not in a pre-planned, manipulative-bastard kind of way). And if I can be perfectly honest... although I find him slimy, like Attolia did, I also found myself really kind of liking Nahuseresh's character in QoA from getting to see all his interactions with Kamet. He was a bastard, but he wasn't pure scum, either. And Gen himself is nothing if not a bastard sometimes. (Magnificently so, but still.)

Basically, my question is, are we thinking of the Medes as evil primarily because they happen to be working against the wishes of our main characters, or, if the roles were reversed, would the Medes still just be evil? For that matter, am I right in thinking everyone feels the Medes are evil to some extent, or does someone disagree? What Mede evilness am I missing?

Comments

Re: In which some spoilers for ACoK are included, so tread warily

[drashizu.livejournal.com]

I'd be tempted to call it the same thing. I know it's bothered some people that the main character of what is supposedly a kid's book chooses to solve his problems by shooting people, but to me, what's more important is that it's realistic for a number of reasons.

One, it's how traitors are dealt with as a matter of course in this society. (Ideally I could have wished for a bit more of a trial regarding Hanaktos, since I generally don't approve of vigilante-style justice, but really, there was zero opportunity for that and Sophos did not have the time OR resources to make that a viable option. Considering the fact that Sophos had first-hand knowledge of Hanaktos's guilt, I don't mind.)

And two... the same thing that makes me okay he didn't halt everything to call witnesses for a trial. Sophos had no time. He was dealing with a very pressing matter that was, at that moment, going to change the way his country was ruled and possibly change the lives of thousands of everyday people for the worse. So yeah, by the time Sophos got to Elisa and was put into the situation he was in---with so few tools to use, and only a guess that the magus and the Attolian and Eddisian soldiers were where he needed them to be---taking Attolia's advice and shooting Hanaktos was all he really could do.

On the one hand, he technically seized control of his country in an illegal way by disregarding the barons' decision and forcing a re-vote; on the other hand, what the heck else was he supposed to do?

What's interesting is what Eddis thinks to herself on page 310, that Sophos had been driven to do all that by herself and Eugenides. "He might not have followed that bloodier and more costly path" if he'd had more faith in himself, "but Eddis and Attolis hadn't offered him the choice." I have yet to figure out how to interpret that.

Re: In which some spoilers for ACoK are included, so tread warily

[aged-crone.livejournal.com]

"What's interesting is what Eddis thinks to herself on page 310, that Sophos had been driven to do all that by herself and Eugenides. "He might not have followed that bloodier and more costly path" if he'd had more faith in himself, "but Eddis and Attolis hadn't offered him the choice." I have yet to figure out how to interpret that."

I wonder about that, too. How could they have "given" him more faith in himself? After a lifetime of feeling inferior, it's not like even his hero Gen saying, "Hey, you're pretty nifty!" would have done the trick.

Re: In which some spoilers for ACoK are included, so tread warily

[filkferengi]

I think it was more they didn't dare wait around to see if Sophos happened to develop some confidence & a plan; they had to go with what would work right then. There're several prices, but expediency saves lives.

Re: In which some spoilers for ACoK are included, so tread warily

[empmai.livejournal.com]

I'm lost on that too. But I think from my understanding of it, it is one of the reasons why I didn't completely like the book from Sophos-view rather the Gen-view.

Gen, Eddis, Attolia totally manipulated Sophos (who was a willing though as he wanted to be part of the gen-ed-at club [side note I just typed Irene instead of Eddis and it came out as the
(de)gen-ir-at club] because they wanted Sounis the country. And needed Sophos to think the only way would be with Attolia's help (so they keep him from all the other ambassadors.

Really it would have been just as effective for Sophos to go to Eddis instead of Attolia for help, marry Eddis, inherit a MoW in-law who already helped secure a throne and stop the war with Attolia uless Gen was willing to go Luke-Skywalker and kill Sophos new MoW.

But this outcome wouldn't have worked for Gen.

Re: In which some spoilers for ACoK are included, so tread warily

[filkferengi]

Putrid pun, for the win!

Re: In which some spoilers for ACoK are included, so tread warily

[madscientistnz.wordpress.com (from livejournal.com)]

"With more faith in himself, and his father's army, he could have retaken his throne without Attolia's aid. He might not have followed that bloodier and more costly path, but Eddis and Attolis hadn't offered him that chance."

The bloodier and more costly path is retaking his throne without Attolia's aid. For all the lives and money the path taken did cost, it was faster and less bloody than doing it by himself.

I also get the impression that he (subconsiously?) is happy to have Gen as the Annux: (page 315) "You told me you needed me to be Sounis. I am. I needed my king to send help. You did. There had to be reinforcments at Oneia, so they were there." To him it was obvious.

That sounds like hero-worship to me!