Eddis, Attolia, Sounis

I thought it was the other drug (quinalums?) that caused nightmares, and he didn't take it. Isn't lethium supposed to bring on a drugged sleep free of nightmares?

But I definitely agree that he has enough emotional trauma to have nightmares without drugs, as he said in that scene with Dite-- something about the gods sending them to keep him humble. I also think that the dreams aren't so much from getting his hand cut off as from living in fear afterwards that Irene would cut out his tongue or blind him or puncture his eardrums.

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I agree with Jadelenox and Willow, I think Gen asid something about nightmares coming by themselves. Perhaps he usually supresses them with lethium but purposely didn't take any that night. I think a lot of his fear does stem from Irene - and she knows that.

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avian-xj.livejournal.com

no, i believe he usually used lethium but brought on the nightmares by not taking anything at all and then pretending that quinalums(sp?) had been put in his lethium.

...i think that makes some sort of roundabout sense

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My theory (thought of right this very second) is that Gen has nightmares all the time, but when he's not drugged up on lethium, he's able to control them/wake himself up from them before he starts screaming.

Oh, or he slept in the Queen's chambers and her attendants are loyal and never told anyone that he was even there, let alone that he had nightmares while there. Or maybe as long as he was in Irene's bed, in her arms, he didn't have anything to have nightmares about, because he's sure then that she loves him and would never hurt him. Or I think too much and have too many theories and need to stop now.

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Gen hates taking lethium. I don't see him taking it when it's not absolutely and completely necessary. And sometimes, not even then, which is why it was slipped into his soup.

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Good point, I'd forgotten about that. :)

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Or maybe as long as he was in Irene's bed, in her arms, he didn't have anything to have nightmares about, because he's sure then that she loves him and would never hurt him.

I quite like that theory. :) It may not be true but it is a lovely idea. And I'm sure that the Queen's attendants were loyal and never breathed a word about his being there.

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Or didn't even know he was there. They didn't really like him in QoA, did they?

But I like the other theory better, even if it isn't quite as realistic-- them keeping the secret and secretly laughing at the rest of the Court as they tried to figure out what, exactly, Gen and Irene's relationship was. Or they just kept the secret out of fear. They are, after all, Irene's attendants.

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I thought maybe it was the slap from Irene that triggered the nightmares. I suppose he could have been having them all along, even after he was married, but that was the first one we saw. After they fought he may have been worried that if she would hit him what else might she do?

One of the things I really love about QoA is how underplayed the emotional trauma of the torture is, and yet how it's very clear without being explicit that that emotional trauma is real. In fact, it entirely shapes the book without ever being talked about in so many words.

Good point. Although the tone in KoA is much lighter, we see some of the effects of the trauma in very subtle ways. When Gen is hurt, the blood and his holding his breath remind Irene of the torture and cause her to faint. With Gen, certain things trigger a response, like when he returns to the dungeon, or when the dogs are let out. Let's hope Irene had the sense never to wear that green dress again. :)

And certainly Irene thinks that the nightmares, to the extent that they happen, are the result of what she did to him

When he is sick after the nightmare and makes a joke about it and Irene says, "tell me what I should say," I think she is asking what can she say to him that will help him heal from the trauma she has caused. Then that touching scene follows.

Or maybe as long as he was in Irene's bed, in her arms, he didn't have anything to have nightmares about, because he's sure then that she loves him and would never hurt him.

I like that. *sigh*

Phresine seems to have a good relationship with Gen. They must have gotten to know one another a little. Maybe the attendants like him now because they see how much he cares for the queen. ("Hmmm, maybe if she 'gets some' tonight, she'll be nicer to us tomorrow.")

We've never heard her tell him she is sorry. Do you think she ever actually said that?

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Maybe the attendants like him now because they see how much he cares for the queen. ("Hmmm, maybe if she 'gets some' tonight, she'll be nicer to us tomorrow.")

My eyes! My burning eyes!

We've never heard her tell him she is sorry. Do you think she ever actually said that?

I think, in her mind, what she did is far, far too bad for her to say sorry. I think she shows it instead, and says it in other ways, like what she says at the end of QoA about living with his pain and grief ever since.

Darn it. Now I have to go reread QoA and Koa, and I have way too much to do.

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avian-xj.livejournal.com

I don't know if she ever said it, but i'm sure Gen knows that she's sorry. There was something in KoA about how she knew at the time that punishment would suit her purpose best but after falling in love with Gen she realized how much suffering and trauma she had caused him and was sorry for that. She also realized how irreversible all of that was. I think she knows that Gen will always be easily worried about her but tries to reassure him as often as she can.

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avian-xj.livejournal.com

exactly. why can't I say that so simply?

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she knows that Gen will always be easily worried about her but tries to reassure him as often as she can.

You are right, and that change in her surprised me; that she does reassure him many times. She seems to find it natural that he feels that way and never blames him for any weakness. She probably thinks she deserves all the guilt she feels.

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("Hmmm, maybe if she 'gets some' tonight, she'll be nicer to us tomorrow.")

My eyes! My burning eyes!

:D I'd love to be able to say something like 'reprobates' and shake my head at this point, but that would be hypocritical of me.

I think you've put it really well Willow - I agree. In a way, their character interaction wasn't quite what I'd expected it to be.

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You are right, and that change in her surprised me; that she does reassure him many times. She seems to find it natural that he feels that way and never blames him for any weakness. She probably thinks she deserves all the guilt she feels.

They never do blame each other for anything. I think you're right, perhaps she does feel she deserves all her guilt. I wonder what Gen thinks of that. Despite the nightmares, I got the impression that they really did trust each other absolutely.

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Oh, and, nice icon. :) Different.

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In a way, their character interaction wasn't quite what I'd expected it to be.

How so?

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Gracias. I "nicked it" as you would say. :) With permission.

Maybe Gen being hurt and weak and feverish triggered the nightmares.

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I don't know. I don't really think Irene's attendants are afraid of her. Maybe in awe of. But not afraid. Or maybe they used to be afraid of her, but at the end of QoA when they thought she was being forced into a marriage she didn't want, they saw her as human and closed ranks around her, to protect her. And then they saw that she loved Gen and that Gen loved her and that for whatever reason Irene and Gen wanted that kept a secret and once again closed ranks around Irene. But this time, around Gen too.

Man. I swear I don't sit around thinking about things like this, but they just spring from my head, fully formed. Like Athena. It's kinda scary, actually.

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And maybe he hates being hurt and weak and feverish, so he turned his weakness to his advantage and used his nightmares as a way to get what he wanted, a confesion from Sejanus.

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No, you're right, I think they stopped fearing her at the end of QoA. And I don't think Phresine ever feared her.

Her attendants would make good 'fic-- normal fic, not Fic of Doom. Hmm, must ponder this.

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Oh, man, I just realized that this is the perfect fandom for this challenge: http://users.livejournal.com/_seven_crows/5186.html

I wonder if any of the other people in the challenge have read KoA? And if I could change one of my requests...or if I could write it myself...

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I'm not sure. After reading the end of QoA, I guess I thought more problems would arise. Perhaps more fights, or misunderstandings. But in KoA, there really does seem to be an underlying love, even when they fight. I didn't see how they could work well together after QoA, I guess. But I'm glad to have been proven wrong. :)

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dh684.livejournal.com

Link to an older but interesting discussion re: QoA

http://tinyurl.com/m6uhu

I think this is interesting because the reader read KOA (and The Thief) without first reading QoA.

http://booksbynight.livejournal.com/3199.html

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