Gen the dandy?
Nov. 24th, 2010 05:11 pm![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
beth-shulman.livejournal.com posting in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
queensthiefSo a few days ago, in this thread, there was a Queen's Thief version of Clue discussion going on. In the "what color would Gen be" part, yellow was brought up as a color. I've been thinking about it here and there for the past few days, and I think what's interesting about Gen is that besides for his obsession with his clothing and his boots, he's also someone who likes to read in his library and he is (or was) a thief, and it's unlikely that he skulked about in yellow.
Do you think he wears flashy clothing in an attempt to disassociate himself from his "thief" part? Is it part of his pretense to incompetence as king? Did he even like being the Thief, or did he only do it because he couldn't stand being a soldier? Or is it simply that he's a complex character who's sometimes a fop and sometimes quiet and reserved?
Do you think he wears flashy clothing in an attempt to disassociate himself from his "thief" part? Is it part of his pretense to incompetence as king? Did he even like being the Thief, or did he only do it because he couldn't stand being a soldier? Or is it simply that he's a complex character who's sometimes a fop and sometimes quiet and reserved?
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Date: 11/25/10 12:04 am (UTC)A part of the contradiction, I think, comes from this: When nothing is at stake, Gen dresses for himself and not anybody else. He has an artistic side. He notices how things look and wants them to look nice.
But, if he needs long sleeves to hide his wrists or servant's clothes to blend in in Attolia, so be it. (Sigh, that it's the Medean style of clothes that has the long sleeves probably rankles him more than a bit.)
I don't think he liked his Attolian Stealth Outfits much for the way they looked. He was upset that they were gone because he valued their utility, and was irked that people were taking it upon themselves to go through his closet, and at the implication that he wouldn't be needing them anymore.
Yes, there were the stretches of Queen of Attolia where he didn't seem to get dressed for days. But he was depressed. It was abnormal. I don't think it was meant to indicate that he'd lounge around in his pajamas all day normally if he had his druthers. In fact, I'm thinking now that was a huge sign of how down he was. Think about Sophos's and Eddis's matching outfits he has commissioned down to the last detail in Conspiracy of Kings. You can't chalk that *all* up to a fastidious attention to detail. He enjoyed it.
I also think some of it has to do with character growth.
Young Gen in The Thief who picks a canary yellow shirt to wear essentially as his uniform in Sounis because he thinks it looks dashing and likes his hair long because, besides its utility, he thinks it makes him look aristocratic is only beginning to discover that fame doesn't suit him quite how he'd expected it to. Fame was part of his motivation at the beginning, but, as he observes, he didn't really fancy being ogled at the trial, and he's beginning to re-think it. Then he does become a national hero, and by early Queen of Attolia he loathes the attention. He's changed.
But if he's going to be stared at anyway, he's not going to let that keep him from wearing his favorite color.
So, no, I don't think he wears flashy clothes to dissociate from his thief persona. 1)He picked yellow even when selling himself as a thief in Sounis and 2) I think he just likes the clothes.
Is it part of his awful-king image? I lean towards no. I get the impression that royalty are expected to dress ostentatiously, if not outrageously. Attolia's Hephestia image gets her out of this to some extent, but remember how poor Eddis feels an obligation to look ridiculous fr her people. He's accused of not looking like a king not for his clothes, I think, but for the way he carries himself in them. (I will have to check that, but my husband is pointing out it's dinner time.)
Did he only become the Thief to avoid being a soldier? I got the impression he was quite proud of his vocation and rather enjoyed the work.(need to look for evidence there, too) And he could always have been a watchmaker. Did this question come from the idea that a thief should wear don't-notice-me clothes? Eugenides could steal your hairpins while dancing with you at a royal dinner.
So he's shy, but he likes what he likes. Interesting questions!
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Date: 11/25/10 01:56 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 11/25/10 03:45 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 11/25/10 02:19 am (UTC)It's true about the artistic side, because he used to steal and dedicate whatever jewelry of Eddis he didn't like.
I do think, though, about what you said about Sophos's clothes that he commissioned (awkward phrasing, wow), that he sees more than the style aspect - like the pockets, for example.
And I also thought he was proud of being the Thief, but I don't remember actually reading anything in the books that proved that - although as
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Date: 11/25/10 03:52 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 11/25/10 02:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 11/25/10 05:03 pm (UTC)Yes!
Possibly, he looked through her travel wardrobe until he found something astonishingly not-hideous, found out who did the beadwork (or was it knotwork?), had a complementary suit commissioned for Sophos, and strongly hinted that she wear that particular dress that morning.
But what I have really thought all along was that he designed the two outfits to be a matching pair and had Eddis's attendants unwrap hers for her that morning just like he had his attendants do for Sophos.
And they were so beautiful and happy and perfect, and he was like their fairy godfather, and everyone was going to live happily ever after. For about fifteen minutes.
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Date: 11/25/10 12:34 am (UTC)I love stubefied by gd's "I hate it when people look at me, but I love to wear canary yellow!" point. At this time in his life, Gen is almost constantly being looked at, so maybe the bright clothes are sort of a defense -- so what they're looking at isn't really *him*. In most of KoA, he may not have truly become King yet, but at least he's dressed for it so it looks like he's trying and failing ... or whatever impression he's giving the court.
Gen is really good at creating impressions and controlling what people think of him (although, like we've talked about before, he kind of has an inferiority complex about what they DO think -- "who would give their heart to meee???"), and clothes are a way he can do it. He chooses the yellow in TT because it's "dashing," and the Mede sleeves act both as a protection (so they don't notice the muscles) and as a disguise (so they think he's ashamed of his hook).
But, like Gen himself, I'm sure it's a very complicated thing. And I'm sure he dresses like that because he likes it. It's ... self expression? It's ... awesome.
About the dissociation (you're making me think of chemistry), I've always believed, without really thinking about it, that Gen likes/liked being the Thief. To me, it seems like that is what he's homesick for, and what he escapes away to do, constantly. At this point, he IS so much the Thief (former or not) of Eddis, that it isn't something he can really stop or dislike. It just is.
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Date: 11/25/10 12:38 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 11/25/10 02:15 am (UTC)I really like this point. I was telling myself, hey, don't overthink it, it's probably very simple, but that didn't make sense, because Gen's not simple at all.
And true about being the Thief! I hadn't thought of that.
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Date: 11/25/10 12:56 am (UTC)Ah, this again.
Date: 11/25/10 01:20 am (UTC)I say this, as a person who dresses carefully and who is also very self-conscious of the fact that how I look leaves a certain impression. I don't wear sneakers, t-shirts, or sweatshirts, because I don't like them. I wear leather mocks, button-up shirts, and skirts. Does that make me snob? I don't think so...
Do I think Gen dresses in a manner to manipulate other's perceptions of him? Yes. Clothing is a large part of the impression you project. When I'm working and I actually want to look my age, I'll wear a more mature dress. If I don't mind looking all of 12 years old, I'll wear looser jeans and loose pull-over sweater.
In case your wondering where this is all coming from, let me explain how I look. When I went to vote this year, I walked straight up to the front desk greeted the receptionist and offered my name. Let's just say I got stared at for a moment until I handed her my ID. To her credit, she recovered quickly.
Did Gen like being the Thief? Hmm... That's a complex question. That's like asking me if I like being a student. Sometimes I enjoy it. Sometimes I hate it. Sometimes I'm stressed out about. It's part of who I am, and a necessary part of my life. Being the Thief was a part of Gen's personality. I think he enjoyed it most of the time, but there were other times when he probably hated it.
All in all, I think it's an over-simplification to assume how someone dresses reflects their personality exactly. Does it say something about them? Yes, and that is what Gen tends to manipulate. Does dressing modestly mean someone is shy? Not always. Does dressing gaudily mean someone wants attention. Could be. Or they might just like bright colors. Who knows...
Re: Ah, this again.
Date: 11/25/10 02:24 am (UTC)See, this is the part I was thinking about. He definitely sees clothing as something he can use (like the Medean sleeves and the pockets for the guns) and yet he also delights in detail. Is it because he likes the clothes themselves or because he sees them as useful - or both? Probably both.
And he chose to be the Thief - so did it subsequently become a part of his personality?
Re: Ah, this again.
Date: 11/25/10 05:22 am (UTC)If Gen had chosen anything else, I think he would have been very unhappy. Did him becoming the Thief make him entirely happy with his lot in life? No... Thus is the human condition.
And one thing I forgot... We should also remember Gen is royalty, and is thus, a little spoiled. Plus, his naturally condition is to go against the grain. In a court full of soldiers, dressing like a fop would stand out in a bad way, would it not? He may have started dressing that way to irritate his father, but eventually found he liked it.
Re: Ah, this again.
Date: 11/25/10 03:58 am (UTC)Re: Ah, this again.
Date: 11/25/10 05:09 am (UTC)All gifts and positions come with pros and cons, and Gen has a very contradictory personality. I can relate because I have moments like that too. To quote some Hilary Duff lyrics, I like to be by myself. I hate be alone. The position as Thief, and the training he took on as a child came with certain requirements and responsibilities.
When Gen was a kid, he stole things and jumped across roofs for fun. He didn't really have any responsibilities and requirements that went with it. There were social effects, but not nearly as bad as what he deals with in his adult life. When it comes to the basic tools of the trade, I think Gen enjoys those and enjoyed learning them even if he had to be disciplined when doing so. It's the whole package of Thief that came with its burdens, I think. Including dealing with the repercussions of the things he did as the Thief.
Plus, the responsibility of it all... Suddenly, his queen is knocking on his door telling him she needs him. He can't turn her down, yet he doesn't feel entirely capable of taking on these endeavors and doesn't want to be responsible for the lives lost. He tries to run from what he has to do, but he can't help but do it. I think this drives him nuts sometimes. Remember the whole I feel like an idiot. scene?
The fame is another can of worms. Gen is naturally reclusive, and I agree with what you said above about his desire for fame being a maturity issue. I think, he mostly wanted recognition for himself and his "archaic" title. He didn't really think about what real FAME might entail, nor did it occur to him that he might become beloved. You know him and thinking...
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Date: 11/25/10 06:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 11/26/10 05:44 pm (UTC)more importantly, nice ICON!!!!!
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Date: 11/28/10 01:07 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 11/25/10 05:20 am (UTC)<3
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Date: 11/25/10 05:33 am (UTC)no subject
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Date: 11/25/10 04:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 11/25/10 05:48 am (UTC)Also, he has a vain streak of sorts, though in Attolia, he seems to WANT everyone to think he's a fop and a fool, so how much of that is real when it comes to his clothes?
By the way, I saw Tangled this morning, and while the thief in it isn't exactly Gen, he has certain similarities and the movie is just a lot of fun.
Oh, and Happy Thanksgiving to everyone!
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Date: 11/25/10 04:05 pm (UTC)no subject
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Date: 11/26/10 12:26 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 11/26/10 02:16 am (UTC)*nods*
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Date: 11/25/10 06:13 am (UTC)As far as wearing canary yellow when he doesn't want to be looked at... well, some of the most eye-catchingly, expensively and carefully dressed people I've known were also the most insecure in their opinion of themselves. Conversations with the gods notwithstanding, Gen's human. He doesn't always feel like hero. He feels like an idiot... or a dancing bear.
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Date: 11/25/10 03:11 pm (UTC)Megan once called Gen a "fancy boy." I think he just really like ostentatious stuff and you learn that about him from the very start when he talks about liking his hair long so he looks aristocratic.
He's pretty vain, too. Very Chrestomanci.
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Date: 11/25/10 04:47 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 11/25/10 05:26 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 11/25/10 04:10 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 11/26/10 05:50 pm (UTC)Oh, you Brilliant Sounisians!
Date: 11/30/10 05:41 pm (UTC)I'm loving this discussion, and especially this quote:
See, this is the part I was thinking about. He definitely sees clothing as something he can use (like the Medean sleeves and the pockets for the guns) and yet he also delights in detail.
You've got it exactly, Beth. He does delight in detail. You remember in "The Thief, when he's asking for paper, and the Magus tells Sophos that Gen is "nothing, if not a craftsman" ? (not an exact quote, I'm not near the book just now ;-D). Gen is definitely an artist, from a family of artists (remember also that Stenides can make those new-fangled flat-backed watches!). And he appreciates anything that is beautifully made.
Two more points about canary yellow -- well actually, three.
1. A vivid color can be an excellent way of disappearing into the background if everybody else is wearing it, too. And the queen's guard wears yellow -- and who knows who else does? Maybe it's popular in Sounis, too!
2. Plus, bright colors can merge into the background if the background is brightly painted. Which it is quite likely to be. (Lion hunts, etc. --- btw, does that strike anybody else as a rather funny motif...?)
3. And (I love this one). Yellow is the color of spiritual intuition. (According to Layard, Jung, etc.)
Anyway, you sounisians are brilliant.
And I shall return with a post featuring pictures soon.....
Anon, <3~D.
Re: Oh, you Brilliant Sounisians!
Date: 11/30/10 06:26 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 12/10/10 09:31 am (UTC)Also, he's a public figure. Even when he was just the Thief of Eddis. That's gotta make it hard to make yourself unnoticed enough to slip under peoples' radars... it's not like he can just be "anonymous" when everyone knows who he is and that he's the one to watch around the new pearl necklace. Hence his acting and misleading people, I suppose. A famous thief has to resort to other ways of being inconspicuous, sometimes by being conspicuous.
Not sure where I was going with that, but... just want to say also that I'm really surprised to hear the doubt about Gen liking being the Thief. I feel very strongly that Gen is in his element as the Thief. It's his vocation. Sure, aspects of it may be a burden, and some of the experiences he's had as a result of it are, frankly, terrifying, but I've never doubted that he loves being the Thief. He may not enjoy every moment of what it's brought him, but he loves it. I've never doubted that.
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Date: 12/10/10 07:11 pm (UTC)That's true - although I did get the feeling that maybe he liked it because he was good at it, and when he lost his hand, he wanted to quit because it was suddenly too difficult. Just thinking out loud here, but when they finally got him out of bed, they sent him with a team to Sounis a) to get the job done, because he couldn't do it alone and b) to protect him and to make sure he got home. That was his dry run - and if I believe that they sent a team to protect him (I need to read the book again to see if it's true), that's where he got the confidence in his ability to adapt. I feel like there was a time when he didn't like being the Thief that much, though.