![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
pysch-colours.livejournal.com posting in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
queensthiefi'm pretty sure it's been mentioned in the community before, but good lord, "the queen and the soldier" is perfect for them -- irene especially. (needless to say, i'm more than happy that she didn't turn to be like the queen in the song.)
i have a request, though. can we do a discussion/analysis? because, being the lit nerd i am, i always like discussion/analysis. so the more discussion/analysis, the better, in my humble opinion. :) (no, seriously, this is a thing. the more we talk about something, the more i grow to love it. which explains the exponential increase of my love of the queen's thief books since i joined this group.)
- what, if any, is the meaning of the song? is it just a narrative? or is it symbolic/allegorical? and if so, of what?
- if it is symbolic, what are the symbols? and how do they apply to the queen's thief series?
- in context of the queen's thief series, who is the queen and who is the soldier? is the interpretation of irene as the queen and eugenides as the soldier the only valid one? if so/not, why? could there also be multiple interpretations of the intrinsic meaning of the song? if so, how does each connect to the other (and back to qt again, because sounis is a qt community)?
- how does the use of colour and/or motifs emphasize certain themes? (if it does at all.) does mwt use similar methods?
- do you feel that the death of the soldier is literal? should it be taken literally? and do the feelings of the soldier and the queen apply to a broader population than just these two specific individuals?
- what general atmosphere is evoked through the use of the soft, calm melody of the song? to what end? how does mwt use words to evoke her own atmosphere? again, to what end?
- do you think that, without gen, irene would have ended up like the queen in the song? or would she have "gotten better" eventually?
- in what ways do the other characters resemble the queen? in what ways do they resemble the soldier? why is this?
just some questions i'd personally like to discuss, mostly because i'm interested in how different forms of media tell the same general story (and that's not to say that either the queen and the soldier or the qt series have plagiarised -- but i do think there are similarities worth exploring) in different ways. (which is why i'm definitely not a purist who dislikes seeing movies of the book.) feel free to discuss anything (and obv there's really no wrong answer) or completely crush my hopes and dreams by not responding at all. ;)
idk i'm one of those people who like to harp on about their favourite books and the devices used to convey certain messages, or talk constantly about connections drawn and...yeah. so this is a little...dabble? in something a little bit new (i mean, we're used to talking about the books, but i don't think we've done something like this?) and if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. :)
no subject
Date: 10/16/11 08:50 am (UTC)(1) I believe the song is a narrative ballad not an allegory. I've noticed allegorical and symbolic elements to SV's music, but she strikes me as a writer who likes to convey a mood or a truth through a story. Ludlow Street is about loneliness, remembering, mourning, and moving on. No Cheap Thrill is about human folly concerning risks and the gamble of life. Blood Makes Noise is about madness and the how things like murder and violence are caused by a certain insanity. New York is a Woman is about how the glamor of a great city is only skin deep, and how in the end - "New York is a woman, she'll make you cry, and to her, you're just another guy." All of this, is told through stories. QatS covers themes of war, love, and choices.
(3) Irene is the queen, obviously, :) and Gen is the soldier, thought I also believe the soldier could represent other members of her court. The solider at first is angry with the queen, calling her a child playing at war, but when he sees the sadness in her eyes and how young she is, he understands her better and pities her. He even offers her a chance to reconsider. She considers the offer, but ultimately rejects it, choosing to continue what she has always know, the battle.
(4) Mentions of colors such as red and gold symbolize such things as blood and the shining hope of new light. Pretty straight forward color symbols. I believe Megan does some of the same things. Irene is both associated with red (blood) and green (life). This represents a certain contradiction that is an essential part of Irene's character.
(5) As I said before, the song is a story that teaches a lesson about human nature. It can apply to people in general, but it's also a ballad about two individuals. I feel that the death is literal, but could also be a general symbol concerning the choices of the queen. I can't say the song has no symbolical elements. Lines such as "the crown had fallen" are obviously symbolic.
(6) The song is soothing at the same time it is horrifying. It's a raw yet soft melody about war, strife, death, and the human nature that tends to drive it. Megan addresses many of the same themes in her books. If you can keep a story that is about war and lose straight up, not sugar-coated, but still keep the hope and the reasons behind the issues a real part of the story, than you know you've got yourself a fascinating tale. No matter the media.
(7) She would have lost her heart eventual and her mind soon after. Likely, she would have run out of options and have eventually been dethroned by an enemy or forced to marry a Mede. I also see her being pushed further towards the edge, until, she eventually comprised all her principles.
All in all, I love this song! - <3
Edited because I cannot spell today!
no subject
Date: 10/16/11 04:53 pm (UTC)First of all, the link you gave goes to a baby monkey being given a bath! (I mean, it *is* very cute, but I don't think that was your intention. =P)
Second of all, I found out about this song here in Sounis, actually. I believe it was either recced by someone on a thread, or it was in one of the playlists. I admit it is a beautiful song full of meaning and metaphors; a breath of fresh air from all the repetitive one-word songs we get today (i.e "p-p-p-poker-face p-p-p-poker face.... x 23).
I guess I'm just going to go right out and say that I fail to see the relationship between this song and Gen and Irene. Perhaps I just don't understand some of the underlying messages in the lyrics or I don't see Gen and Irene's relationship in the same way as other Sounisians do. I understand that in this song, there is a young and stone-hearted queen who wages wars, and a soldier who manages to seek her out of the castle walls from which she was hiding. Yes, that does sound very Irene and Gen-like respectively. There are also the little details like the red tapestry (and we know that Irene likes to wear red), and such, but the rest of the motives fall short of the deck.
The queen here says, "I have swallowed a secret burning thread. It cuts me inside, and often I have bled." So yes, we know that she's burdened, but for me, I just don't see how that same burden reflects Irene's. Irene wages wars (how many has she waged, actually?) to subdue her antagonistic barons, but this queen, IMHO, seems to like to watch the world suffer because she is also suffering. It makes her feel better to know she's not the only one. I mean, that's the impression I get; I could be completely off the walls here.
I'm pressed for time, so I'm leaving it at that for now, but I do promise to post more of what I think once I'm free. So uhm, well feel free to disagree btw. ^__^
no subject
Date: 10/16/11 05:32 pm (UTC)I do know what you mean about it being very different. The likeness, for me at least, is that the soldier sees the queen quietly suffering and longing for more and he reaches out her like Gen does. In the song, though, the queen makes a very different choice than Irene.
I think why the queen wages war is left open to our interpretation, but that is an interesting theory.
no subject
Date: 10/16/11 07:55 pm (UTC)i thought i copied the link to tqats
but that was the one i was going to send to a friend
awwwwwkkkkwarrrrrd
no subject
Date: 10/16/11 09:13 pm (UTC)In other words, no prob, my dear.
no subject
Date: 10/16/11 10:25 pm (UTC)Waaah!!! Perfect cheer-me-up on a weekend full of mid-term studying.
no subject
Date: 10/16/11 10:46 pm (UTC)it was the most adorable thing ever though. <3 it looked so darned CUDDLY.
no subject
Date: 10/17/11 01:28 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 10/20/11 06:50 pm (UTC)[weg]
no subject
Date: 10/21/11 04:24 am (UTC)Gen: I need a pet.
Irene: I thought you already had a Costis.
Costis: ...
no subject
Date: 10/21/11 12:46 pm (UTC)Gen: I need a pet.
Irene: You could have one of the hunting hounds.
Gen:....I think I'll have a pet guard instead, thank you all the same!
no subject
Date: 10/21/11 02:08 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 10/16/11 08:08 pm (UTC)another reason i connect the queen in the song to irene (tbh though, i only found this song because of a mix for morgana from merlin) is because they're both so lonely and isolated, but they don't want/like to show it. the song mentions that she lives in a palace up on a hill -- that kind of reminds me of an acropolis, in that it's so far above the actual town that the palace in itself is isolated from the rest of the town, as both queens are isolated from people in general.
and to me, gen is the soldier because they both reach out to their respective queens (except, you know. gen gets lucky. the soldier...) the song mentions that the soldier "came knocking upon the queen's door" -- which is symbolic to me (but doesn't have to be because i'm a sucker for symbolism) because it implies that he walks up the hill, he's trying to breach this barrier she's put up around herself. but he doesn't accomplish it -- he's left "on the doorstep" where, gen gets to live in the castle.
or maybe i'm just digging too deep/overthinking this, haha. i have a really bad tendency to do that. whoops. ;)
no subject
Date: 10/16/11 09:28 pm (UTC)I know what you mean! I have a friend who calls those 7-11 songs. 7 words, 11 times.
I haven't had a chance to check out the song yet, Ill probably be back once I'ver haerd it :)
no subject
Date: 10/16/11 08:25 pm (UTC)It's also possible she's a genuinely cruel child-queen who's destroying the world around her, but it's hard to tell since from the outside that's pretty much what Irene looks like too.
no subject
Date: 10/17/11 02:21 pm (UTC)Anyway, I think that song was like QoA if Irene had decided not to marry Gen, or to let the Mede kill him or something like that. Except for the end, the queen in the song seemed very much like Irene to me, right down to their shared affinity for red. Those are all my thought s at the moment...Math homework is calling!
no subject
Date: 10/21/11 04:09 am (UTC)All together now...
AWWWW!
no subject
Date: 10/21/11 12:44 pm (UTC)Reminds me of trying to give our Yorkie a bath....SHe gets the same "You're torturing me!" look on her face - but she never sticks her tongue out!!
Thanks for the link to the cuteness, Lady Jane!
no subject
Date: 10/21/11 10:08 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 10/17/11 03:23 pm (UTC)I think the queen is Irene, that's for sure. Trapped by her office and afraid to want anything else, even someone who understands her. But for the life of me I can't see the soldier as Gen, unless I take the song in a much more symbolic way than I do naturally.
I see this as being not so much a "what-if" for Irene if she hadn't accepted Gen as canon Irene pre-Gen. The soldier seems like either a real person or a type of someone who actually did try to understand her (Gen figured her out himself) and actually did try to come in "by the front door" (also unlike Gen). I also prefer to take him as an actual soldier from her army.
In fact, I think he'd make an interesting character for a fanfic. ^_~
Oh, and one comment on the music--it's actually not the kind of music I usually like listening to because it feels much less structured and much more like speaking. But I think it really works for this song--I can almost imagine it's Irene (canon and post-Gen) telling her story to Gen.
...actually I just thought of that last part as I was typing it, but now that I think of it I really like that idea. Especially since, IMO, the combination of harsh emotion and softness could also be taken as a tone of regret.
'kay, that's all I've got right now.
no subject
Date: 10/21/11 11:30 am (UTC)Suzanne Vega is a folk singer, and therefor her songs are in ballad form and lack a chorus or other such normal song structures. Given, not to everyone's taste, but her music has always melted my heart.
no subject
Date: 11/9/11 04:38 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 10/19/11 05:17 am (UTC)Canada Goose Outlet
Date: 11/10/11 08:20 am (UTC)Canada Goose Outlet
Date: 11/14/11 11:23 am (UTC)Canada Goose Expedition
Date: 11/15/11 01:24 pm (UTC)karen millen clothing
Date: 11/16/11 08:18 pm (UTC)karen millen
Date: 11/17/11 03:50 am (UTC)Canada Goose Mantra
Date: 11/22/11 10:14 am (UTC)Canada Goose Mantra
Date: 11/24/11 03:39 pm (UTC)karen millen dress
Date: 11/28/11 08:25 am (UTC)Canada Goose Expedition
Date: 12/6/11 02:31 pm (UTC)karen millen online
Date: 12/6/11 06:48 pm (UTC)Canada Goose Expedition
Date: 12/8/11 11:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 10/6/12 02:42 am (UTC)