Gen-types

[rosaleeluann.livejournal.com]

I feel like maybe we've discussed this before but, well, we like talking about the same things again sometimes, right?

So recently I read a book which was OK, but I didn't love. When trying to figure out what exactly wasn't working for me, I realized one of the big issues I had--I felt like the author was trying to make one of the main characters into a Gen-type character, but was failing.

(To be completely honest, my first thought was, "This book would just be so much better if it was about Lord Peter instead." I think I'm due for a LPW re-read.)

So I started trying to figure out why I felt like the character failed to live up to the "Gen" type.

I started by trying to think of successful Gen-type characters. I know some are missing from this list, but these are the first I came up with--

Gen (obviously)
Lord Peter Wimsey
Sir Percy (the Scarlet Pimpernel)
Miles Vorkosigan
Chrestomanci
the Doctor

My list stopped there, even though I KNOW that I've read other books with this character type--help me out here, guys.


Then, I tried to decide what characteristics made this mold. The characters I listed above fit most or all of these characteristics:

clever and witty--quick thinking
intelligent--long term thinking
people skills--good at reading and understanding people
Aristocratic/privileged background, usually with a sense of style to go with it
Brave--sometimes in almost a daredevil way
Stick to a code/personal beliefs
Sometimes works in disguise or with another identity (not always literally)

That's all I have so far.

So what I'd be curious to discuss are these questions:

What other characters would you add to this list, and why do you think they fit? (Particularly if they're from books I haven't read ;-) Would you take away any I listed?
What characteristics would you add to this list--or take away from it?
Why do you think this character type appears repeatedly?

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Wow. You hit so many of my favorite characters and the reasons why I love them.

Naturally, I also respect Gen, Lord Peter Wimsey, Miles Vorkosigan, and Sir Percy for their good sense in appreciating women who can match them. (Sorry, I have yet to read Chrestomanci's exploits or watch the Doctor's in any of his incarnations. Heresy, I know.)

[rj-anderson.livejournal.com]

Albert Campion, from Margery Allingham's mysteries! Definitely fits your list of characteristics...

[imbecamiel.livejournal.com]

Oooh, man, I know there are more that fit the general profile, but I'm blanking at the moment... Aside from the fact that Robin Hood in many incarnations seems to fit pretty well?

I just have to say, though, that I am beyond gleeful to see not only Lord Peter but ALSO Sir Percy on your list. :D Sometimes it seems like no one remembers/loves the SP any more. Despite the faults of the books themselves, I am still so very much in love with Sir Percy.

[thnidu.livejournal.com]

Another characteristic that several but not all of them share: physically unimpressive and/or damaged:

✔ Gen
✔ Lord Peter Wimsey
? Sir Percy (the Scarlet Pimpernel)
✔ Miles Vorkosigan
✘ Chrestomanci
✘ the Doctor

✘ Albert Campion

I haven't read The Scarlet Pimpernel, at least not since high school, longer ago than I feel like thinking about.

[ejmam.livejournal.com]

The protagonist in Graceling by Cashore. Hari in Robin McKinley's Blue Sword.

[lizzyazula.livejournal.com]

Has anyone here ever read the Bartimaeus trilogy? It's been years since I've read it, but I always thought that the pairing of Nathaniel and Bartimaeus were a lot like Eugenides. Bartimaeus is snarky and witty and has all of Eugenides' good, confident qualities, whereas Nathaniel is high handed, arrogant, and very self conscious about his dress. Together they could give Gen a run for his money, I think.

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

I read The Scarlet Pimpernel at a formative age, and ever since then, my all-time favourite fictional character type has been the super-clever schemer, ten steps ahead of everyone around them, who doesn't care if they get badly misjudged and underestimated by everyone around them - more, who often deliberately causes people to misjudge them, for Reasons. (And if the viewpoint character is one of those who misjudges them, all the better - as long as we get an awesome revelation scene later.)

They're usually witty and eloquent, and insouciant in the face of danger: the sort of person who would calmly flick a speck of dust from their cuff when held at sword point by their arch-nemesis. They're often actors; even if they're not in disguise and playing a part, their words and actions are usually deliberate, done with their audience in mind. You don't often get to see glimpses of their true feelings. Inscrutable could be a word for them. They would make an excellent super-villain, if they weren't good at heart.

High up on my own mental list of this character type is Francis Crawford of Lymond from Dorothy Dunnett's Lymond Chronicles. Her Niccolo should probably be on the list, too, but I never fell in love with him in quite the same way as I did with Lymond.

There's also Peaceable Drummond Sherwood from The Sherwood Ring by Elizabeth Marie Pope. The male leads of several Sherwood Smith novels have strong elements of this type, too... but this comment is already getting far too long, so I won't ramble on any further. :-)

[rosaleeluann.livejournal.com]

That's a great one. And now, you've reminded me of a character I forgot to put on the list--Peaceable Sherwood! I knew I was forgetting some.

(I enjoy Dr. Who generally, but some episodes and even entire seasons just aren't that great IMO. So maybe I'm the heretic. No judgement here :-)

[rosaleeluann.livejournal.com]

Tell me more! Is this something I need to add to the TBR list?

[rosaleeluann.livejournal.com]

Love for Sir Percy is very much alive in our household. I'm not supposed to know this so don't tell anyone, but for my birthday tomorrow my husband got me the DVD of the 1982 Scarlet Pimpernel. So excited.

And he's not supposed to know this (he found out accidentally), but for Christmas I got him the piano music from the musical.

And since our libraries of course combined when we got married, we have more than one copy of the book on our shelves.

:-)

Have you read any of the sequels?

[rosaleeluann.livejournal.com]

No, I don't think Sir Percy would fit that one--he's supposed to be very tall and strong. However, I think its definitely one that could be added to the list :-)

[rosaleeluann.livejournal.com]

I haven't read Graceling but I keep hearing about it. I may have to try it.

Its been so long since I read the Blue Sword. Time to find my old copy. I bought it when I was in fifth grade, in a boxed set with The Hero and the Crown and Spindle's end. I was just starting to collect my own library of books then, those were among the first... ah, the memories :-)

[rosaleeluann.livejournal.com]

Interesting! I never thought of a combination of characters going on the list, but I think it works :-)

Years ago I read the first of the Bartimaeus books. I never went on because while I LOVED the Bartimaeus chapters, I had a really hard time getting through the Nathaniel chapters. They were just so boring. :-\

[rosaleeluann.livejournal.com]

Hey, theres no problem with long comments :-)

I like your description. I also read The Scarlet Pimpernel at a young age (the Readers Digest version, literally). It was one that I could finish in a few hours, so some Saturdays I'd grab it off the shelf and go hide in some out of the way place and finish it in one sitting, again. Now, I see the flaws in the book, but then it was just a good story, and a good escape.

I hear so much about the Lymond books, but... I had such a hard time getting through the first book. The story and characters were indeed awesome...once I finally got through them. I felt like I just had to work way to hard too understand what was going on. I know there are companion books with translations and such, but I guess I just feel that those shouldn't be necessary... I don't think I'm a completely lazy reader, but I guess there is a certain kind of work that I like to do as a reader, and looking up translations and locations and historical things isn't the kind of work I'm interested in. I like to be given enough in order to understand, even if it isn't all spelled out and obvious. I finally got through the book on my 3rd or 4th try because I said, "I'm just not going to understand a lot of what is going on, but I'm just going to keep reading anyway."

Then again, it has been years since I read it. Maybe I'm due to try again. And I don't mean any offense by rambling about my experience reading the book, please don't take it that way :-).

Lymond should definitely be on the list! And Peaceable. I want to re-read Sherwood Ring again too...

Speaking of Sir Percy and Sherwood Smith's books, I once re-read the Scarlet Pimpernel and then Crown Duel right after. There are a whole lot of similarities between Sir Percy and Vidanric, and Meliara and Marguerite, even just physically. It was interesting :-)

I feel like these Gen-type characters tend to be so interesting/influential that they dominate their stories, even for several books (Gen, Lord Peter, Miles, Lymond, the Doctor). I think it's interesting that both Vidanric and Peaceable are more secondary characters, rather than the primary character. They're still interesting to read about, and they're a big part of the story. But the story is different because its not only about them. Maybe? I'm just rambling.

[elvenjaneite.livejournal.com]

Telemakos, from Elizabeth Wein's Aksum series. Also Howl from Howl's Moving Castle.

[lizzyazula.livejournal.com]

I can definitely see why you'd find Nathaniel boring, but I still recommend the third book. It's one of the best Children/YA books I've ever read, and it's where all the character development happens. I find myself returning to that one (not the first two, although I like them) frequently. I don't find that Jonathan Stroud ever goes really *deep* with emotions, but he does it with the third one.

The only downside is that it might be necessary to have read the first two to really understand the emotions going on in book 3, but book 3 is THAT GOOD. I recommend reading the series just to experience that one. =)

[elouise82.livejournal.com]

You know, I never would have thought of there being similarities between Gen and Lord Peter, but now that you mention it, definitely! And Sir Percy, absolutely. The disguises, obviously, but also in playing the long game. Wheels within wheels, so to speak.

I think Thomas (aka The Mysterious Marquis) of the Kate & Cecilia books would strive for all those traits, but unfortunately has a tendency to miss the mark too often (mostly by leaving Kate out of his calculations).

[rosaleeluann.livejournal.com]

Hmm. I might have to try those again.

[rosaleeluann.livejournal.com]

Yes and yes! Another two favorites.

[rosaleeluann.livejournal.com]

I guess for me its easy to compare Gen to Sir Percy, and then Sir Percy to Lord Peter...

Also, I have only ever run into ONE Lord Peter fan IRL. Thank goodness for the internet bringing like-minded people together. :-)

Kate and Cecilia books... as in Sorcery and Cecelia? I only ever read Sorcery and Cecilia, are there sequels?

[elouise82.livejournal.com]

Ooh yes. There's "The Grand Tour," taking place immediately after "Sorcery & Cecilia," and "The Mislaid Magician," which takes place ten years later. Caroline Stevermer also wrote an MG novel set in the same world, focusing on a young boy in service to Thomas, titled "Magic Below Stairs."

There's a girl in my apartment building who loves the Lord Peter books; I had all I could do not to fall on her neck and weep with joy when I discovered that.

[rj-anderson.livejournal.com]

Campion is kind of Wimsey-lite, with his own quirky charm. I first discovered the series via the Masterpiece Theatre adaptations in the late 80's and early 90's. I'm particularly fond of the books that feature the irrepressible Amanda Fitton -- THE FEAR SIGN aka SWEET DANGER, THE FASHION IN SHROUDS, and TRAITOR'S PURSE in particular -- and can seldom be bothered to revisit the rest of the series; but then I feel much the same about the Wimsey books (my apologies to the completists, but if I never read FIVE RED HERRINGS or even THE NINE TAILORS again I will shed no tears whatsoever).

Anyway, yes, I do recommend them. They are fun and charming and Lugg (Campion's very un-Bunter-like manservant) is a hoot.

[rj-anderson.livejournal.com]

The first book of Lymond is cruel and unusual punishment, frankly. I know what Dunnett was trying to do and it's awfully clever and all, but that book is really not a good place to get into the series! I struggled and floundered through it and was ready to give up in despair for all the same reasons you noted, but I forced myself to go on to QUEENS' PLAY and about halfway through the book everything clicked and I roared through the rest of the books. So it really does get better. :)

(Could never be bothered to go on to the House of Niccolo, though. From what I've heard that series contains everything that I *didn't* enjoy about the Lymond Chronicles, and very few of the things that I did.)

[imbecamiel.livejournal.com]

Ooooh, Anthony Andrews SP is the best adaptation. (I assume you've seen it before at some point?) Not perfect, but soooo much fun. :D

I love the songs from the musical so much. I so much wish I could've gone to a Doug Sills performance of it...

Oh yes! I own all the sequels (at least, all the ones about Percy himself - haven't gotten to all her other works yet), and have read them all multiple times. I think I enjoy the short stories the best, on the whole, just because you tend to get more appearances by Percy himself, without quite so much time for loooong digressions without any members of the league directly present. What about you?

(Also, I should mention that while I have loved SP since I was young, I am currently in the process of reading the Lord Peter novels for the first time, so my squee over him is all shiny and new. I feel like I discover everything so belatedly. XD)

[jesusphreaq.livejournal.com]

Sage/Jaron, of course, from The False Prince, which is eerily similar to The Thief... After much mulling it over, I actually like The False Prince more than The Thief, but I hate the rest of the Ascendance Trilogy, and adore the rest of the Queen's Thief series.

I second the person who mentioned the Wizard Howl from Howl's Moving Castle. :)