Hi! I'm a new member; and a question about the house of Erondites

[mouseguru.livejournal.com]

Hello Sounis members!

I have read this journal since the last book came out - I didn't know any fellow fans in real life and had so many questions and things I wanted to think about after reading it that I went searching online for fans and found this wonderful site. The discussion here helped me so much - I swear I missed at least a third of what was going on the first time round! I also owe this group a huge debt for recommending the Vorkosigan saga - I found them through you and love them almost as much as this series!

My user name of mouseguru is because before having kids I worked in a lab with transgenic mice:) Despite being a science type, I love to read and happily ignore my housework whenever I find a good book. I have four kids who are my full-time job :)

I am lucky enough to have a 16 year old daughter (who was a toddler and my only child when I first encountered these books!)who recently became obsessed with these books, so we've been reading and re-reading and talking about them for the last month or so. Added to the excitement of the news of the new book, I was inspired to jump in and join the discussion here. Anyway, we came up with a question for pondering that I don't think I've seen here yet. I don't think we can figure out the answer, just wondered what ideas other fans might have.

While rereading QoA, I noticed this statement from Nahuseresh, speaking of how Attolia secured her throne with brilliant tactics from "an advisor, probably the Baron Oronus, or Erondites's father." I thought it was interesting that he sees Erondites's father as a candidate for one of Attolia's closest early advisors, when the current baron is her greatest enemy. Could the father, after initially supporting Attolia, have become one of those early traitors that was executed horribly as a deterrent, thereby earning the current baron's enmity? Or do you think it's more likely that the current baron is just power-hungry with no particular personal anti-Attolia feelings?

Thanks for all the reading pleasure you all have given me over the years!

Comments

[an-english-girl.livejournal.com]

Glad to hear from you, Mouseguru! And what fun to have someone else in the household who enjoys QT ... but which of you is going to read TaT first?!?
Regarding Nahuseresh/Erondites/Attolia, I had always taken this as an example of how Nahuseresh completely ignores and dismisses any abilities on the part of Attolia herself. She is a woman, "easily led", he cannot even conceive that she might have taken any part in planning how to secure her throne. Certainly, Nahuseresh's views here contrast with Irene's own account later.
But, you do have a point that the house of Erondites has changed head quite quickly within Attolia's reign, given that the present sons are older than Gen. So maybe a case of treason. Snakes and weasels, after all...

[(Anonymous)]

Thank you for your welcome!

LOL, WRT the new book, we've already come to the conclusion that we may have to buy a hard copy and an e-copy at the same time and then we can read at the same time. Or, if we're disciplined, I will get to read while she is in school and then she'll get the book in the evening. She's just thrilled that the release date is after the last of her AP tests are over :) It is very fun to have someone to obsess with, especially as we don't usually have the same taste in books.

I of course assume that Attolia did her own plotting and that Nahuseresh is mistaken :) but just wondered if his even coming up with her name implied that he was a supporter of hers in the beginning. The biggest point against my theory I would think is that Erondites is still a baron, since it was common to disinherit the families of traitors.

[mouseguru.livejournal.com]

oops, that last post was me, I guess I hadn't signed in

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

Welcome! Good question...I wonder if it's just a case of a power-hungry baron. If his father had been treasonous and executed because of it, I think that would have been mentioned somewhere in later descriptions of the Erondites family, especially once Gen is on the scene in KoA. More likely, I think, that it's just another case of clueless Narhuserfish not having any idea what's really going on.

Mod Poke out

[(Anonymous)]

Hi fashionable website
http://date.inc.xblog.in/?leaf.belen
free video dating edmonton adult classifieds meet people australia dating taiwanese girls free online video dating

[silverflight8.livejournal.com]

Hey, good to meet you!

I never noticed that before! However I think it's mostly just power hungry Erondites; it makes sense that the current one didn't just come up into power, they're obviously an old, powerful house. Perhaps the elder Erondites thought he could gain influence by being an advisor and either that didn't work our his son thought it'd been ineffective or something.

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Welcome to Sounis! It's always great to have new people. :)

Good observation! I totally forgot Erondites was mentioned in QoA.

Like everyone else said, you first have to take in the context of who is saying it, Nahuserfish, and the fact that he is wrong about everything else he says about Irene in this scene. That probably means he's wrong about this, and is overestimating the queen's relationship with some of her barons.

After all, if she didn't have a good enough relationship with any of her barons to accept their advice, Nahuserfish might actually have to give a woman credit. Unthinkable! XD

He states that this person is dead, so it's either Dite's and Sajanus's grandfather or an uncle, the older brother to their father.

Thus, I think we can conclude that either...

(1) Nahuserfish is simply making an assumption, since Erondites is a powerfully enough barony to influence the monarchy's power.

(2) The Erondites he's referring to was a supporter of the queen, and once again, Nahuserfish is assuming her political tactics were his idea.

It's hard to tell if this was one of Irene's early executions, but I'm leaning towards no, because of Dite's devotion to her. Also, there wasn't any implication in KoA that Erondites had a personal vendetta against the queen.

[freenarnian.livejournal.com]

Welcome! It's so exciting to have new Sounisians join in the discussion!

[manderelee.livejournal.com]

Welcome!!! I'm glad you decided to un-lurk! More people, more fun!

Hm, Vorkosigan comes up a lot in the WSK posts here. Maybe I should also give it a try.

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

Oh, do! They are wonderful.

[frosted-feather.livejournal.com]

Just a question, checkers, on the Vorkosigan saga. People here love them, but I was traumatized when first starting one that had a very intense attempted rape scene. (If I'm thinking of the right series, I thought it was the first book.) So, does that kind of violence reappear throughout the series? If not, maybe I can skip that part and keep going. Otherwise, it's not something I would enjoy.

[(Anonymous)]

There are a couple violent scenes, but nothing as intense as the attempted rape scene (and I don't think there's any more rape/sexual assault). I'd say keep going.

[frosted-feather.livejournal.com]

Thanks! I will try it again. I remember feeling like I'd just discovered a great new series, and then feeling bereft when I couldn't keep going. Sometimes an opening work has different tones than the entire series.

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

Yes, there are some distressing parts to some of the books. That part you mention, and several scenes in Brothers in Arms come to mind. I'm not sure what I'd advise for you. I'm ok with them because I love the characters so much that I just want to keep going. And, like Gen's story, there's a lot of moral ambiguity (what is acceptable during war times, etc.) that makes you think, and a lot of focus on how the characters learn to deal with the bad things that have happened to them, and grow and change.

Also, I don't think I could have read them at 17 or 18. They would have been too traumatic for me.

[kaeyko.livejournal.com]

Just my two cents on Erondites's father.

Maybe he's just a lot more subtle and tactful than his son and grandsons? He might have better sense of political discretion and knowing when it's advantageous to throw his support behind the queen but never to openly be antagonistic about it. Also, at the point of Nahuseresh's observations, given the attitudes of the Attolian barons towards the queen being the sovereign ruler, the House of Erondites might have been thinking they still had a shot of getting the throne via marriage.

By the time The King of Attolia occurs, a foreign king is on the throne. There's a lot of cause for resentment amongst the Attolian nobles, especially ambitious ones like Erondites. The current Baron Erondites might also be a lot less skilled at being tactful and made his intentions for power horribly obvious, not to mention prone to underestimating his opponents. Irene (and Gen) might be keeping the Erondites in their place mostly to prevent any power vacuums that may appear if a powerful family like the Erondites are removed abruptly.

[(Anonymous)]

That makes sense - as the most powerful house, they probably considered themselves pretty good candidates for marriage to the queen. And of course poor Dite had hopes in that direction! I hope we get to see or hear from Dite again.