QoA Section One - Read-along Week One!
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queensthiefThis week we’re reading from, “He was asleep, but woke at the sound of the key turning in the lock.” To “‘He sighed inwardly.”
Chapters 1-8 of QoA.
Chapters 1-8 of QoA.
These discussions are spoiler free for the new short stories, “The Wine Shop” and “The Knife Dance,” as well as the “Thick as Thieves” arc.
There may be spoilers for books 1-4, so if you haven’t read all the published books yet, proceed with caution.
There may be spoilers for books 1-4, so if you haven’t read all the published books yet, proceed with caution.
The Empire Strikes Back
We often refer to a sequel that takes a darker tone as The Empire Strikes Back to X, and QoA definitely qualifies as such. Upon taking opening week, I didn’t, at first, realize I’d assigned myself what is probably the most controversial and hotly debated part of this series. Many objections and defenses have been written about QoA. Many people give up after this book with some abandoning it as soon as the blade falls, so to speak…
The realism of falling in love with a woman who maimed you, the questions of whether or not this is a romanization of violence, and even the controversial PoV change are all part of this debate.
I’ve often been on the defense side of many of these discussions and that is, in part, because of my head-cannons, which I feel are supported by the text. I'll go over some of those, and I'd like to hear your thoughts.
Falling in Love with an Avalanche
The question has always been, who falls in love with the person who cut your hand off? Correction, Eugenides just happened to already be in love with the woman who had his hand cut off.
Just how did Eugenides get from, “You are more beautiful, but she is more kind.” to having such strong feelings for Irene? Here’s how I believe things went down.
There is at least a year between TT and QoA. Gen has been assigned by Eddis to do reconnaissance work in the Attolian palace to investigate whatever treaties she’s been making with the Mede. Now, I feel people make the mistake in assuming he hasn’t been back to
the palace since he escaped it in TT. That’s not the case.
His grandfather taught him how to enter the palace in secret when he was a child. He’s very comfortable coming and going, and he spent a lot of time there spying before this book starts. This would have been when he witnessed Dite confessing his love and realized he loved Irene as well.
When he saw her dancing under the orange trees as a child is not when he fell in love as he is now. He did feel a connection or empathy towards her at that moment, but either hadn’t reconciled that with who she’d become as an adult or didn’t understand how that affected his feelings for her.
I think his opinions on her changed as he observed her during this year of spying. He watched her running her court, watched her managing her unyielding barons, and saw that there was much more to Irene than the Ice Queen persona she was famous for.
He developed feelings for her without knowing it, and upon seeing Dite fail at confessing his love, realized “from one moment to the next” that he felt the same way. That’s why the earrings and the notes. To Irene that would’ve seemed to be an unspoken threat. I can poison you dinner, Your Majesty. I can slit your throat in your sleep, Your Majesty. In reality, this was his weird attempt at courting a woman he’d already made an enemy out of.
Now, Gen never found the treaty with the Mede, because it didn’t exist. So, that’s why he was there yet again, sneaking through her palace, no doubt wondering what the heck he was going to do about his feelings.
His falling in love wasn’t contrived or based on one sappy encounter in an orange tree grove. (Don’t get me wrong. The dancing under the orange trees scene will always be sweet, but this is not a Love at First Site trope.) It wasn’t feelings developed based on just an idea he had of her. Granted, he didn’t interact with her directly, but he knew her. By listening to her speak at court, watching how she treated her attendants, and from gleaning off the opinions of those who worked and lived at the palace. If he didn’t know her, he never would’ve seen beyond her queenly mask.
In closing, the point I’m trying to make is that he ALREADY loved her. He didn’t fall in love with her after the fact due to battered person syndrome or some form of Stockholm Syndrome or glorification of violence as romantic.
Defrosting the Ice Queen
Irene falls under the tropes of Defrosting the Ice Queen, the Woman Wearing the Queenly Mask, with a little Took a Level in Idealism. I would even argue that she, at least in part, is a villain in the structure of this story. A lot of the defrosting is done by making us see things as she does. We all know that the best villains are the ones that don’t see themselves as evil at all, and often have a good reason for what they’re doing.
Thus, I’ve always tried to see this part of the story from her POV. The gods appear to her (yikes!) and give her very specific instructions on how to catch the Thief. Now, at this point in the story, she doesn’t have any generous feelings for him. He’s an enemy. She’s even afraid of him after the notes and the earrings.
Attolia had seen the text of a message Eddis sent to Sounis the year before suggesting that no lock on window or door in his palace would save him if she had her Thief call on him again. P21
She catches him and now what does she do? The most obvious answer is the have him executed. He is a foreign spy and a potential assassin. She’s not just going to let him go. At the same time, Moira told her not to offend the gods. She clearly thinks executing Gen will do just that.
“Do not offend the gods,” he warned her.
“Hang him.”
“Remember that your gods are not mine. Nor will they be.” P23
Does she care about offending the gods? Seemingly not, however, she does know they’re real and offending them could have negative ramifications.
She doesn’t make the amputation decision out of anger. Revenge yes, but the decision to hang him was made in haste and out of anger. She thought long and hard on the decision to cut off his dominate hand.
“I will think a little more before I decide what to do with you.” P25
Amputation is a solution that will incapacitate him and remove him as a threat (at least, as an assassin, so she thinks) without taking his life. She spites Eddis, eliminates a threat to her life, and doesn’t offend the gods.
“Have I exceeded the restraint of tradition. Have I offended the gods?”
“No, Your Majesty.” P32
During this part of the story, she doesn’t love him. She’s feels guilty later on. She doesn’t take pleasure in violence, but I don’t think she falls in love with him till almost the end of the story. Those feelings aren’t developed to their full potential till KoA.
She has the wound cauterized, meaning she didn’t want him to die of infection.
“If I didn’t want him dead of one infection, why would I want him dead of another?” P35
She doesn’t give any orders to have him tortured for information. Relius does this on his own.
She does go down to check on him, and hears him praying to Hephestia. That moment of vulnerability is important, because that’s when she first feels a connection to him on a personal level.
She made a decision that was logical given her circumstances. Now, this is not a decision anyone ever wants to make. (Unless, you’re Nahuseresh, maybe…) However, I think that since this happened to the main character we know and love, we hold Irene to a different standard of accountability than we do Helen, Sophos, and Gen when they too have to make terrible decisions and hurt characters we haven’t been made to care about as much. (Gen let Relius be tortured. Sophos shot a man in cold blood. Helen started an unnecessary war. To name a few…) This isn’t the audience’s fault. It’s largely intended by the author as a distraction from the Tamoto Surprise at the end, and because Irene is the villain in this particular book. Megan is trying to make us hate her, at least at first.
This is not a romantic story. It’s a love story. This was not done for romantic effect or because violence is sexy. Violence is never portrayed as sexy in these book. This is a story about forgiveness.
Irene had to make a decision as a sovereign. It wasn’t the worst she could’ve done. It wasn’t the best or the most merciful. However, it was a decision that made sense, not just her getting petty revenge on Helen. Irene has never been one to engage in violence simply for personal gratification.
Now, let me explain that I don’t think I love Irene. I respect and admire the heck out of her, but I’ve always seen her as a defrosted villain. Of course, that doesn’t mean she’s not one of my favorite villains ever.
PS: Also, she would've never caught him if it weren’t for the gods, so it’s actually all their fault. Just saying… :)
What was your reaction to the chop-chop moment, and what do you think of Eugendies/Irene? Romantic or insane?
PoV Change
Moving on to a lighter subject, the switch from first person to third person limited has always been another point of contention. However, it makes more sense when you realize "The Thief" is an account written down by Gen and the italicized part at the end is the only real time event. It’s always amused me to think that "The Thief" is sitting somewhere in Eddis’s library! Just waiting for Sophos to pick it up and read that Gen thought Ambiades was better looking than him!
Authors don’t usually change POV in a series, however Megan intends for these books to be stand alone novels. In text, it’s explained that whenever something is in first person, this part of the story is being told or written down for another character. This allows first person narrators to reflect on a current event in retrospect. Other books do this as well, but it’s never usually explained how they are able to know the future during their own story.
Now, let me go over why I feel this change was necessary. TT benefited greatly from Gen’s perspective not only to hide the twist, but from his wit. When you really think about it, not a lot actually happens during the first half of the story. Gen keeps us entertained and laughing as the world is established. This was also an excellent way to get to know him.
Firstly, QoA is a very different book with a multitude more characters and much more ground to cover. Parts of the story are told from Helen’s and Irene’s perspective, and Irene is a particularly essential POV for the story to work.
If you’re wondering why Megan couldn’t have written Gen in first and the other characters in third like the "Enola Holmes Mysteries" do, I have a theory on that as well.
I don’t think QoA would’ve benefited from Gen’s PoV. He’s funny, but there wasn’t much for him to be funny about during the section we just read. Gen has to fight his depression, before he can accept what’s happened and start being himself again. The distance we have on him benefits the story.
What did you think ot the PoV change?
And with that! We’re to the final part of this extremely long post!
Stop Whining!
Now, a lot people don’t like the Winter of Whining, as I like to call it, but if whining is ever justified, amputation and learning to live with a disability, are good reasons. Now, this part of the story can be a downer. Gen is very depressed and rightly so. Once he’s physically able to get out of bed, he has to cope with a whole different future laid out before him. He can’t be the Thief as he was before, so he sits in his chair by the fire and practices his hand-writing all day. What else is there for him to do?
Until he realizes Eddis is at war then, and Gen realizes that he can still mastermind and play a leadership role (a position he’d wouldn’t have ever taken under normal circumstances), does he realize there is still purpose for him. He can still serve his country and his queen.
Now, humor me for just a moment and imagine the book without the Winter of Whining. Imagine that Gen heals up, jumps out of bed, and runs off to kidnap the Magus. Wouldn't you think that was a bit I odd? Shouldn’t he be at least a little traumatized?
The rule applies here, that if you hurt your character, you must allow them time to heal. So perhaps, it wasn’t so much a Winter of Whining as it was a Winter of Healing.
Was this part a big downer for you? Do think Gen is suffering from depression?
Favorite Lines
“Long-handled iron tools that looked like blacksmithing tools but weren't rested on the wall…” p28
This is absolutely terrifying.
”His grandfather would heap scorn on him like coals.” P28
Am I the only one who thinks it’s hilarious that Gen is so worried about his grandfather's disapproval in the afterlife? I'm guessing that he was a hard teacher to please.
“That necklace was hideous. It was the only way to keep you from wearing it.”
“My earrings?”
“What earrings?” P50
They’re such cute siblings.
“For me, alone among mortals, the gods send their messenger to tell me to stop whining. That'll teach me to go hide in the temple.” P79 And “I ate the ceremonial bread in the temple.” P80
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
I’ve always loved how Gen is miffed he doesn’t ever get better worded, more articulate messages.
Eugenides stood and started to pace. The magus was reminded of a bear, chained in the pit, albeit a small bear. P84
Gen is a smol bear. Aww…
“You see how well planned this adventure is,” he said. “I arrange not only a cart but the chariot as well.” P110
He brought a cart. *IZ DEAD
Random Observations are Random
“Near the chair, dressed for dinner in a cool green gown the color of sage leaves was the queen of Attolia. Embroidered around the neck of the dress was flowers, white petals on the green ground, with delicate leaves a shade darker than the dress.” p29
For some reason, I have never before realized that the dress on the 2005 cover is described in the book, nor that it is drawn exactly as it is described.
“…once he'd slipped while making his way across an icy wall and had fallen to the ground with his leg twisted underneath him.” p50
Gen has fallen before! And he still does drunk handstands on the edge of a wall…
“I could run away and make myself a free man,” joked Kamet.
“Oh, I'd find you,” Nahuseresh smiled. P72
Foreshadowing?
“And she has the most appealing of feminine virtues, esspecially in a queen. She's easily lead,” said Nahuseresh, smiling.
“She's held the throne for some time,” the secretary said cautiously. P72
Kamet is smarter than Nahuseresh.
What are some of your favorite lines and what do you think of Kamet's bit in this section?
What are some of your favorite lines and what do you think of Kamet's bit in this section?
Next week we will continue with QoA chapters 9-14 lead by live_momma!
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Date: 2/27/17 07:04 am (UTC)Some scattered thoughts:
I believe MWT once described QoA as a reverse-Beauty and the Beast. I've always been of two minds as to whether the BATB trope works for me. For example, I never liked Jane Eyre (*ducks*) or any variation in which the Beast character failed to redeem themselves in my estimation. On the other hand, it IS one of humanity's oldest story tropes (*coughtaleasoldastimecough*) and there's an undeniable appeal to the theme of transformative love.
In my humble opinion, forgiveness is a thoroughly underrated theme. It's difficult. And it's beautiful. And in forgiving Irene, Gen brought me, the reader, along. Understanding and compassion for her became visible to me through his eyes. That doesn't make Irene an easy or cuddly person from then on, of course. And it's written in such a way that we, the readers, have the other characters clearly struggling alongside us, to accept her and what happened. But they, too, look to Gen in this. We believe in Gen, and Gen believes in her.
Gen's Winter of Healing is so essential. Much as I loved his character in Thief, this is when Things Got Real for me, and I was Invested in where his story was going to take him next. This strikes me as another underrated thing. The temptation is to cut to the action, and yet the "meantimes" and the "in-betweens" are just as crucial to character development. And like you pointed out, it's not like MWT wasn't all the while advancing the larger plot. It was just in the background for a bit, as Gen (and readers) came to terms with things. It also gives his comeback an exciting impact that it would have lacked otherwise.
The POV change was an adjustment, but made perfect sense to me as the series progressed. Allowing readers to see Gen through the eyes of others only adds dimension to his character, especially as he proves himself a rather biased and unreliable narrator. :) It also allows the camera to pan out, and take in a much larger story involving multiple characters, cultures, opinions, and a whole lotta impressive world building. I'm SO excited for the new narrator/set of eyes in Thick as Thieves!
Final thoughts: I absolutely love the detail of her dress on the cover of QoA, and the way the gods speak to Gen ("Stop whining and go to bed!") is one of my favorite things (in a very long list of favorite things) about this series. It's just... brilliant.
no subject
Date: 2/27/17 09:44 am (UTC)Thank you so much! I swore to myself, it wasn’t going to be so long this time, but I just get going...
I like the Beauty & the Beast comparison and there are a lot of themes of transformative love in Queen, except Irene’s exterior is an icy mask of queenly power and not fur and horns. However, you could argue that she’s scarier!
Gen’s love helps Irene to be a better person and vice versa. They really do compliment one another and are a lot alike. I mean... I wouldn’t call their relationship the most healthy, by any means, but I don’t feel that it’s abusive as some people have claimed. It think that if they’re both going to be crazy, shrewd politicians with a stomach for violence (should the situation call for it) it’s good that they are married to someone who is their equal in that respect.
I liked Jane Eyer, but it’s such a gothic, emo novel (which can be entertaining) that I could see where it would turn some people off. Charlotte Bronte even had the audacity to criticize Jane Austen. You ain’t got nothing on Jane Austen, girl!
Such a large world with so many characters really benefits from the many PoVs we see. Some authors do this by telling different stories about other characters in the same world, but the scope of the Mede invasion is massive plot wise. There are so many people and countries that will be affected that it’s great to develop that main arc from many different angles.
The he’s back moment is so perfect! You can practically hear "My Boyfriend’s Back and You’re Gonna be in Trouble" playing in the background.
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Date: 2/27/17 05:31 pm (UTC)So Eddis' little sister must be married!?!
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Date: 3/1/17 05:44 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 3/1/17 05:45 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 3/1/17 05:57 pm (UTC)I completely agree that Gen falls in love with Irene over the year before she cuts off his hand. I have to admit - Irene is my favorite character of the series, and especially of this book. There's something about someone who is so trapped, and yet fights so hard, not for selfish gain, but because her people need someone more than the selfish barons to rule, that breaks my heart completely. Reading her slow warming - I don't really want to say melting, because she never really falls apart - over these first 8 chapters is exquisite. The image of the broken amphora is so powerful in repetition. I also really feel for the level of guilt she has, and how she must deal with it sidelong, since at the level of a sovereign, it is rare that any relationship can be conducted directly, even with one's spouse.
I don't think Irene is the villain of the book - I think she's the antagonist. The villains are clearly Sounis and the Mede, and to some extent, the mountain.
I think the perspective change is essential to make the final confession of love by Gen have impact. Even though I knew his motivations, hearing him actually say it is incredibly important. As I said above - those moments of honesty and directness are necessarily rare in stories about people at the highest levels of state. (It's also why Costis is such a necessary change of perspective for the third book.) If we were in Gen's head, even if MWT kept it as cagey as she did in The Thief, it wouldn't have had the same impact if we heard Gen's thoughts of love about Irene before he told her.
I definitely don't think the Winter Gen cuts himself off was a downer. It definitely felt true to life to me, and it allowed the revelation of war and the desperate situation to really strike horror.
The earthiness of the gods always amuses me, too. I like to think that God has a sense of humor, and isn't terribly interested in flowery speeches, so the gods in Attolia feel real to me.
Having just reread the Thief in my shiny new paperbacks, the cart was hilarious.
Knowing Kamet is a POV character in Thick as Thieves does make all these scenes much more interesting...
LOL
Date: 3/1/17 11:39 pm (UTC)Re: LOL
Date: 3/1/17 11:48 pm (UTC)RE: Re: LOL
Date: 3/1/17 11:54 pm (UTC)Re: LOL
Date: 3/2/17 08:24 pm (UTC)...but that's romantic and "passionate" according to Bronte.
You could also argue that Darcy can be a jerk, but at least, he seems to be more self aware. It also turned out he wasn't as bad as Elizabeth originally thought. First impressions and all.
I think I like Wentworth best out of all Austen's male romantic leads.
no subject
Date: 3/2/17 08:50 pm (UTC)I read QoA first, and it's always been my favorite of the series. I read a synopsis of the book and was spoiled about the chop-chop part but thought it sounded intriguing. I saw there was a previous book but it was checked out, so I grabbed QoA and headed to the gym. I remember reading the chop part while I was on the elliptical machine, going faster and faster as Gen ran through the palace and was captured and dealt with. Whew. I worked off a bunch of calories that day!
POV change: Sometimes the POV changes even within the same paragraph, which made it difficult for me. I had to really analyze the character's thoughts and mesh them with their actions. During a reread, I remember thinking, "where is my funny, carefree thief?" although half the time Gen was acting, so maybe not really carefree. But the POV shift, as you all say, was necessary to draw away from Gen and begin a slow understanding of Irene. I do feel that a big part of her growing feelings for Gen she sees (at the beginning) as just regret (broken amphora). From all their interactions, she does seem amused by him and she admires many things about him--his loyalty and skill.
Ironic that Gen almost dies because of the dog bites, rather than the amputation. No wonder the poor guys is scared of the hunting dogs!
I like the part where the Magus shows up during the Winter of Whining. <3 And the look Gen gives him when he says that Gen can't do anything any more. Ha! He has no idea that he's the catalyst for the Return of the Thief.
During the Winter of Whining, the Minister of War isn't the most sympathetic character I've ever seen. Granted, he was in the midst of a war but, honestly, do you leave a depressed person alone until they get better on their own or throw themselves off the roof? Gen didn't want company but it still seems like they could have done more for him. But, I understand that the story arc needs him to get though his ordeal and reinvent himself.
It took me many rereadings to understand and accept Gen's love for Irene. Like some of you, Irene is not my favorite character. Like Sophos, I'm still terrified of her. :-) I can understand why Gen would forgive her but not why he'd still love her, especially since she'd never given him any hope that she felt even slightly the same way. Even when they finally do have a chance to talk, later in the book, and he declares his love, she still gives him only threats and insults. But we all know he IS stubborn. She was redeemable, but how could he know that for sure?
Megan said once that she turned this book in completely finished, tweaked and ready to be published, because she was afraid that if she turned in just an outline or unfinished version they would tell her she absolutely could not cut off the hand of her main character and she'd feel like she had to change it. I'm so glad they let her do what she wanted with the story. That's why it's my favorite book, I think. This series always surprises me, and not many books do that.
no subject
Date: 3/2/17 08:55 pm (UTC)Jane was great. Parts one and three aren't Rochester heavy, so you do avoid him some, at least. The girls Jane teaches in part three were fun too.
Jane Eyer has a lot of the three volume Gothic novel, penny-dreadful cliches writers like Austen and Wilde liked to make fun of. Northanger Abbey is a parody of the gothic novel and The Importance of Being Earnest took a few shots at gothic romance.
I bit like how we like to make fun of romantic novels today.
Let's review
-Jane is suppose to be ugly. At least she thinks she is and has a low self-esteem.
-Rochester is a wealthy, emotionally unavailable, brooding mess
-He keeps secrets and is manipulative
-He is broken, so Jane can "fix" him!
Now, if you can find any of those that aren't present in Twilight, please tell me. Meyer also thinks her books are better than Austen's. Some things never change. Jane is way more likable than Bella, though, and Bronte is a good writer.
I mean, Elizabeth Bennet and Mr. Darcy’s it’s pretty good, except you should think that if either one of them dies the other one will carry on bravely...
And that's a bad thing, Meyer?
One can still enjoy the book, despite that. Just don't take it too seriously. I recall a part after the interrupted wedding when Rochester is like, talk to me or I cannot LIVE! Yeah, real people totally talk like that.
Re: LOL
Date: 3/2/17 09:00 pm (UTC)(Also, we a had a very sweet dog named after the character.)
no subject
Date: 3/2/17 09:02 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 3/2/17 09:04 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 3/2/17 09:14 pm (UTC)I feel a bit heartless every time someone mentions how upset they were when Gen lost his hand. My reaction was more along the lines of, "WOW! Did this author just Kill Her Darling or what?! A thief with one hand! Brilliant! This author has guts! I can't wait to see how he's going to... Wait, and he LOVES her?! Well that ups the stakes! Megan Whalen Turner? Megan Whalen PAGE-Turner, more like!"
It's a bit embarrassing to admit, now.
no subject
Date: 3/2/17 09:32 pm (UTC)Her generally point was that Austen lacked passion in her writing, but Austen wasn't trying to write a penny dreadful. She was writing a comedy of manners that was also a critic of the society she lived in.
So sure, there aren't many sappy declarations of love in the rain in her books and if you like that sort of thing (as I occasionally do), Austen may leave you miffed in the romance department but that wasn't ever the point. The relationships she wrote were more realistic, I guess you could say.
Austen's sass was off the charts. If you've ever read her History of England, this is all too apparent.
no subject
Date: 3/2/17 09:51 pm (UTC)Like when Gen is trying to go up to the roof it's from his PoV but the scene ends with Helen's PoV. I actually didn't even notice till Checks pointed it out, so it can't be too often.
no subject
Date: 3/2/17 09:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 3/2/17 09:55 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 3/2/17 10:13 pm (UTC)The magus really can be such a jerk, but I guess all Gen needed was a good insult to get him back in the game.
Gen would hardly talk to anyone, and it was the MoW who insisted he at least come down to dinner and sent the tailor and the man with the prosthetics. I think he just really didn't know what to do. The part where he puts Gen's pjs on for him like he's a little kid is really sweet. The MoW does care!
Irene is like many things that are beautiful, but might kill you. Nightshade, bears, Victorian wallpaper...
He didn't, but he is one to slam his head against a wall till it breaks or he does. He did say she was a challenge, which is part of the reason he likes her.
Her editor immediately called, and said she'd written a wonderful book, which gave her the confidence that she'd made the right decision.
no subject
Date: 3/2/17 10:37 pm (UTC)No, no he can't be in love with her. She's evil!
No she's not. The book makes that very clear.
This is domestic violence.
They're not in a relationship, till almost the last chapter. They're not even friends.
He hated her in TT!
No, he was wary of her, but he never said he hated her. There's clearly some character development between books, as well.
Yes, antagonist is probably a better word for what I'm trying to say. As a character, she sets up the main adversity for the protagonist, which is usually something the villain does. Nahuseresh is far more the evil one, however.
Criticism of the Winter of Whining is usually about how he's not being himself, which is true. Most people who've experienced severe trauma aren't themselves till they've recovered. It's not OOC. It's just reality like you said.
Yeah, I think he would complain about poetry even more. The fact that their messages are so simply and without fanfare is hilarious. He talks to Costis about that in KoA, comparing his messages to one's from literature. That's always struck me as really funny, because I like to compare real life to the ways things happen in stories.
If I help the little old lady across the street, will she turn out to be fairy and give me a wish?
If my car breaks down in an empty street, will I get attacked by a werewolf?
Hey, it passes the time... XD
no subject
Date: 3/2/17 10:40 pm (UTC)Yes, it was a very bold choice. Megan said that at some point, Gen had to loose and that would be an important moment for his character.
no subject
Date: 3/2/17 10:53 pm (UTC)Imagining that we're part of a larger, wonderful world of magic and possibility is part of why we read, after all! :)
no subject
Date: 3/2/17 11:28 pm (UTC)Are you talking about Heiro and her father?
The only moment that could qualify as abuse once they are married is when she slaps him in KoA. If one is a victim of domestic violence, I can see why that would upset you and why you may dislike their relationship because of all the emotional baggage and violent history they have.
Though I do NOT believe violence is an appropriate reaction to being upset with anyone, the reason she slaps him is because he used something that he knew would upset her to convince her not to execute Teleus.
She gets mad at him, because he is in a way manipulating her and challenged her power as queen, so she lashes out.
The question here is can you forgive someone who slapped you when they were really upset? That depends on the circumstances and if it doesn't happen again. It becomes abuse when violence is a regular thing that's used to control/intimidate/harm the other person.
Also, lots of movies show woman slapping men, and the guy is always just kind of "meh... I don't care."
At least, this book takes it a little more seriously. I'm always like, no, you don't hit people! Why is this okay?
PS: She did also throw an ink pot at his him, but that was played for laughs. He apparently ducked, so I don't think we were suppose to take that too seriously... XD