Did Gen die in the maze??

[readsintrees.livejournal.com]

So I have a friend who's reading the series for the first time, and he says that when he read The Thief, he thinks Gen drowned when the maze flooded and was revived through the powers of Hamiathe's Gift. I pointed out that the Gift's powers only work when it's given, not stolen...but he says that the gods GAVE Gen permission to take the Gift, and therefore it wasn't stolen, and therefore it granted him immortality, and therefore that's the reason he didn't drown.

This is not how I read that part AT ALL... Have I been interpreting the ending wrong for nineteen plus years????

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Chapter 9 when Gen is escaping the temple the third time ends with:
I slipped at the top of the stair leading to the outer door and slid down underwater until I was pinned, unable to breathe, against the stone door.
I fought to turn over, to get some purchase in order to lift my head, but the river held me on my back, head down. I scrabbled with my hands but could find no leverage to move my body against the force of the water. The river foamed around me. I ran out of air. Darkness that was deeper than the river swallowed me up. P.96 eBook.

The start of chapter 10 begins with:
When I woke, the sun was up and the day was already warm. I was on the sandy bank of the Aracthus, my feet still in the water. . . . . . . . . . . . . They had seen the stone door from the cliff lying in the clear water beyond the waterfall P.98

This indicates to me that Gen lost consciousness while trapped inside the temple and ended up on the shore because the door was washed out. Maybe Hamiathes’s Gift did prevented him from dying while the temple filled with water.
Hamiathes’s Gift could also have kept Gen alive when he was stabbed during the fight with Attolia's Guard, until he handed the Gift to Eddis. By then he'd had some time to heal, although he did faint the moment he let it go.

I’d felt my life dragged out with the sword, but in the end my life wouldn’t go. It had stretched between me and the sword. I think that only the power of the gods could have kept me alive, but my living was at the same time an offense to them. I should have died, but instead the pain went on and on. P.114

The moment I released the stone, darkness rushed in, and I leaned toward the floor without saying anything. P.131

I apologise if this has all been figured out and discussed before.

[readsintrees.livejournal.com]

So...are you in agreement with me then that Gen didn't die, he just lost consciousness?

[orphanedhanyou (from livejournal.com)]

i feel like it depends on your definition of immortality. never dying or able to revive after death? vampires are 'immortal' and though they are depicted in various unique ways usually they are already 'dead' or must go through a death like experience. people stop breathing and 'die' all the time.

[freenarnian.livejournal.com]

Upon my 4th or 5th reread of The Thief, when it finally dawned on me that it was the Gift keeping Gen alive after what seemingly should have been a fatal sword wound, I also wondered if he "should have" drowned in the maze. It only takes a few minutes to drown, so I guess it depends on how long he was submerged before the door gave way and he was washed out. (Maybe Gen himself doesn't know? He walks gingerly, remember!)

I wonder if anything in TT is going to come full circle and take on new relevance once we have the final book? Megan's said it's going to refocus on Eugenides. And there's been theories about him possibly becoming immortal. Hmm.

I love revisiting Gen's POV in the first book and getting his inside perspective on the actual business of being a Thief... the calculation, risk, and challenges involved. Whereas from other character's perspective, he's this legendary being that appears out of thin air. (They realize there's more to it, of course, at the end of KoA when they see his scars!)

[readsintrees.livejournal.com]

I don't think Gen would STILL be immortal, since he no longer has the Stone. According to the legend, didn't King Hamiathe hand off the stone at the end of his natural life, and then he passed away. It doesn't grant indefinite immortality...right?

[ladyequinox.livejournal.com]

What a coincidence, I just reread the book last night and got caught up at the same section. The lines (...)slid down underwater until I was pinned, unable to breathe and I ran out of air made me reread the paragraph three times while I thought, did Gen just drown? After puzzling it over for a bit I finally moved on with my reading. I think I have always just assumed it was divine intervention that had Gen wash up on shore instead of being swept away, and dying, in the river.

Having read the previous comments I think it could go either way. Either Gen was unaware of how long he was under the water and just passed out from lack of oxygen or the Gift did keep him alive as in later with the sword. Either way, I don't have an answer to your question, but I am so glad you asked it. Since seeing your post I think I prefer to think it was the Gift; I feel like it makes for a better narrative.

~Nox

[readsintrees.livejournal.com]

I think I'm with your original read....I just assumed that it was divine intervention, that the gods helped give Gen a little nudge toward not-drowning, the same way they intervened to muffle the hooves of the horses later on in the book.

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

Honestly, I'd never considered that before! I'm not sure what I think about it...

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

I am in agreement that...

1: Gen was given the gift by the gods, thus the stone granted him temporary immortality.

2: This was directly responsible for him not dying after being stabbed during the sword fight.

3: It could have also contributed to his survival in the maze or some other devine intervention saved him.

[readsintrees.livejournal.com]

Ooo, but wait a second, when Gen had the stone during the sword fight, wasn't that after he STOLE it from the Magus? He handed it over to the Magus, and then stole it back....shouldn't that theft have voided the immortality aspects of the stone for the rest of the time he had it?

[eachase.livejournal.com]

I think that's a good point and seems to follow the logic of the text (TT, pg. 70)*:

"....Hephestia rewarded a king named Hamiathes with a stone dipped in the water of immortality. The stone freed its bearer from death, but at the end of his natural life span the king passed the stone to his son and died.... When a usurper stole the stone and soon thereafter died, it was understood that the power of the stone was lost unless it was given to the bearer....

As the series continues, Gen certainly escapes near-certain death several times -- even after the stone has been given to Helen and subsequently destroyed. So I don't think the gods potential intervention keeping Gen alive is limited to the "rules" around the stone.

As for escaping the temple, for the first time I wonder if a thief had to have possession of the stone in order to survive the attempt. The magus tells Gen, "'No one who has been inside has returned; no member of any party where someone went inside has returned either. I don't know how it might happen, but if you fail, we are all lost together.'" (pg. 156, emphasis mine this time)

Is it the case that the only way to survive the temple trap is to have the temporary immortality that that stone provides? Otherwise death is certain?

I don't think there's any evidence in the text that the stone "revived" Gen, but prevented otherwise certain death seems probable.


* Apparently, once an English major with a literature concentration, always an English major with a literature concentration....

[(Anonymous)]

The original Gen gave Gen the gift in the maze. Gen did not give the gift to the Magus. He simply opened his hand. It’s probably a technical difference.