Is Eugenides his real name?

[readsintrees.livejournal.com]

Ok, ok, I know we're all excited to discuss TaT, but I want to go back to some Thief 101. During my latest re∞read of the series, I started to wonder whether or not Gen was given the name Eugenides at birth, or if he adopted it later when he decided he wanted to be a thief and not a soldier...

I mean, how did his parents know to name him Eugenides without knowing first that he was going to grow up to be a Thief? His dad sure seemed to want him to be a soldier. Do they just randomly name a few people in a generation Eugenides in the hopes that ONE of them turns out to be a worthy Thief? In "The Thief" the Magus snidely tells Gen that the current Queen's Thief is named Eugenides, and Gen snaps back that they (thieves) are ALL named Eugenides after the god of thieves. I suspect he said this just to throw the Magus further off any suspicion that Gen was the same person as the Queen's Thief. Because, if there are so many people also named after the god of thieves, how come we haven't bumped into any other Eugenideses?

Attolia/Irene tells Nahuseresh at one point that the Queen's Thief of Eddis takes the name Eugenides as a sort of title as well as a name, so although this is non-Eddisian hearsay, I wonder if it's true....Did Gen take the name Eugenides as a new name as well as a new title when he declared he was going to be the Queen's Thief? WAIT, for that matter, what if the newest Queen's Thief is female? Does she go by Eugenidia?

What do you think? Am I overlooking some passage where Gen says specifically that he was given the name Eugenides at birth?

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I think he says to Sophos while travelling that he was named Eugenides, just as people knew when Sophos was born that he'd be a duke. The whole name/thief business is, I presume, one of those happy coincidences organised by the gods [and Megan!]

[readsintrees.livejournal.com]

I found the passage between Sophos and Gen from "The Thief". This is what is says:

"Are you really named after the god of thieves?"
"I am."
"Well, how could they tell what you were going to be when you were just a baby?"
"How did they know what you were going to be when you were a baby."
"My father was a duke."
"So my mother was a thief."
"So you would have to grow up to be one, too?"
"Most of the people in my family thought so. My father wanted me to be a soldier, but he's been disappointed."

Notice he doesn't answer Sophos' question directly. He answers with another question, and doesn't just say "Yes" to the question of "So you would have to grow up to be one, too?" He just says MOST of the people in his family thought so. He also doesn't specifically say he was given that name at birth, just that he's named after the god...which he could have been named later on. This series is full of names-that-are-also-titles that characters are granted later in life (Sounis, Attolis, etc).

If being the Queen's Thief is strictly hereditary like being a duke, does that mean that Gen's mother was also named Eugenides (or Eugenidia)?? Was Gen named Eugenides because he was the oldest of his siblings (was he?) and was therefore destined to become Queen's Thief?

The fact that he says MOST of the people in his family thought he would be a thief makes me suspect that it's not in fact a straight forward title/name passed down in a straight line. Otherwise, wouldn't ALL of the people in his family have expected him to be Thief by virtue of his birth?

This is talked about again later on after they make it to Eddis.
Sophos asks, "Was it because your mother was the Queen's Thief that you were called Eugenides?"

Gen replied, "Partly. It's closer to the truth to say that Eugenides is a family name and I was named after my grandfather. But my mother, you know, was never the Queen's Thief. She died before my grandfather did, and I inherited the title directly from him."

If Eugenides is a name given to whomever is next in line to be Thief, why doesn't he say he was named after his mother (presuming she is included in the line of thieves who are ALL named after the god)? Instead, he was "named after his grandfather" who'd held the QT title last. And, again, him saying "Partly" makes me think that being Thief is not simply a matter of who's-next-in-line.

*overthinking galore*

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Well, his mother knew to name him Eugenides because the gods told her to, of course! XD

In Eeddis, the short story, Helen says Eugenides is four and him being named after his grandfather caused an uproar in the palace, so there is cannon evidence he has been called that since birth.

Eeddis - http://sounis.livejournal.com/639373.html

[badtzphoto.livejournal.com]

I'm glad you started this discussion. Thank you. The comments enrich my rereading of the series.

[savithny.livejournal.com]

Gen seems very much like the youngest kid of at least 6. I've always felt that after giving her husband (aka: the King's younger son) plenty of heirs, she knew he was likely her last son and insisted this one be a Eugenedes.

Her father may or may not have been an influence, but I think he was both her baby boy and "one for me and my family."

[readsintrees.livejournal.com]

Hilariously, I'm rereading QoA right now, and had the exact same thought again...."Wait, is Eugenides his birth name, or did he take it as a title?" Certain that I can't have been the first to wonder at this, I searched Sounis to see if this had already been discussed....only to find that *I* had already asked it here, and then we all had this really interesting discussion. Apparently the answer didn't "stick" because I keep coming back to the same question....