The King's Attendants

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

I've been putting off posting about this, in order to think some things through, but folks have been commenting about it in the Chapter 13 section of the GIANT Thick As Thieves discussion. I was afraid it would be lost there and thought I'd bring the discussion out here where more people will see it, so here goes.

So, who in the world can this new young attendant be? None of this was in the advance copy I read a couple of months ago, so he's a recent addition to Gen's retinue. Here's what we know:

• He's the youngest attendant. So young, in fact, that it appears he's just learning to read and write.


• He shrugs with one shoulder (doesn't Gen do this?)


• He ties his tutor in knots on purpose.


• He has a "pugnacious self-reliance" (pugnacious = eager or quick to argue, quarrel, or fight.)


• He deliberately choose the wrong answer. (Gosh, that sounds like something Gen would do.)


• He writes with his left hand. (Now who else do we know does that?)


• And to top it all off, this all takes place in Attolia's Library. I don't remember any other scenes there, except for ones in ACoK where Helen reveals to Sophos that others have seen Moira's library, too.

I'm so confused by all this. Added to it, Kamet calls him Erondites' heir, and we know Gen did not leave Erondites any heirs. KoA is pretty clear about that. Kamet tells Gen his attendant needs a better tutor. At the end of the book, it's easy to assume that in Kamet's letter to Relius, this mysterious new attendant is also Relius's new student.

Some people have also assumed that the "P" at the end map of Kamet's is this same attendant. I don't have my book in front of me (I loaned it to someone and I miiiiiiissss it), so I'm relying on my memory here, which is usually a really bad idea.

What do you think is going on, everyone?

Comments

[sgwordy.livejournal.com]

LJ has made some changes since I used it with any regularity so I hope this link thing works. I was just looking at the comments in the sticky post and the two hopefully linked below had a summary that really worked for me on exactly who this new attendant might be. However, you might be after a little more detail. My book is also loaned out so I'm going off memory as well and details are escaping me.

http://sounis.livejournal.com/715931.html?thread=15397531#t15397531

[freenarnian.livejournal.com]

Thanks for linking this, sgwordy!

Here's another link that goes a little farther back in that same discussion (starting with ninedaysaqueen's 3rd point): http://sounis.livejournal.com/715931.html?thread=15378075#t15378075

I'm so, so, so intrigued by this character. Future narrator, anyone?

[celebrilomiel.livejournal.com]

Same here! The way the book ends with such a tantalizing, pointed-yet-vague focus on Pigeon does seem to be setting him up as a future narrator. It screams "not telling."

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

I'm not entirely convinced he's a future narrator. Remember when we all thought Sandy was the next narrator? XD One of the many times I was wrong...

Anyways, he appears to be significant to the story.

He can't be some manifestation of Eugenides, can he?

[celebrilomiel.livejournal.com]

Like you pointed out, Checkers, Pigeon seems a lot like Gen. If Gen hadn't already appeared as both himself and the sandal-polisher, I'd be tempted to wonder if he was messing with Kamet by adopting a disguise. But Gen isn't that young anymore, and Kamet's eyesight isn't that bad — he was right next to the boy, sharing the slate. On top of that, Kamet seemed to have a previous, official awareness of the boy; he refers to him immediately as the youngest attendant, with recognition, not assumption. And I don't think the god of thieves would be parading around as the annux's youngest attendant, either. Still, the similarities are baffling.

Re: He can't be some manifestation of Eugenides, can he?

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

It does make me wonder if he's a relative of Gen's. Maybe Gen appointed this kid to be Erondites' heir?

[sclerotia.livejournal.com]

I have been rereading the last 30 or so pages of TaT obsessively, because it seems to be larded with foreshadowing and mysteries. The Erondites mystery is one I have spent a lot of time on. I see I should have been hanging out here more. I really like the idea that P is for pigeon and belongs to Erondites the Very Much Younger (Erondites TVMY). As I see it he can get this name/title one of three ways.
1. Erondites the Elder's mistress could have given him this name as a given name. There are a whole lot to social implications to this that we don't have enough information to evaluate, but it seems pretty unlikely.
2. Erondites the Elder is dead (suicide, maybe, at the ruination of his plans and reputation) and this boy is related to him and chosen by the crown to succeed him and is actually now the baron. Incidentally, if the previous Erondites the Younger in no longer the heir, is he still called Erondites?
3. Erondites TVMY is the chosen heir of of Baron Erondites with the approval of the crown.
Nothing in the brief paragraphs lets one determine which of these is valid.

Also
There are three subtle clues that Erondites TVMY is crippled in some manner. "Pugnacious self-reliance that was unusual in such a body" , "using great care and his left hand" , and "he shrugged with just the one shoulder". I admit that I wouldn't defend this conclusion very vigorously, but I think it's a legitimate possibility given that it's written by the queen of the subtext.

[celebrilomiel.livejournal.com]

Good points, all of them. The nuances of each one are interesting to contemplate. (Yes, what would Dite be called now? We never did learn his proper name. Now I'm even more curious about him and his position in Ferria.)

I think you're onto something. In Kamet's note to Pigeon regarding the map, he comments on how his handwriting has improved, too. If he is crippled in some way, that would be yet another similarity to Gen and yet another reason why Gen might have chosen him or assented to him as the new Erondites.

[beth-shulman.livejournal.com]

Good catch on those last points. They could refer to extreme youth/personal ticks - or not!

[freenarnian.livejournal.com]

Oh, I hadn't considered that at all (about the descriptions possibly indicating a handicap of some kind). Interesting. I guess we won't know for sure until there's another book to tell us more.

I did wonder where Relius went and why the archivist wouldn't let his student see a map of the Empire (resulting in Kamet's map). I hope that's just incidental and not a result of any prejudice against our lil' Pigeon.

Gosh, look how quickly I've gotten downright fond of this character. D:

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

There are three subtle clues that Erondites TVMY is crippled in some manner.

This is brilliant! That would explain all those oddly worded phrases. And possibly, too, why he was working on letter sounds if he was old enough to be an attendant. Maybe his disability made it difficult to talk.

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Before I share my many thoughts, allow me to link to all previous threads discussing this little rascal, who is clearly taking over Sounis.

1: Main Discussion Thread (http://sounis.livejournal.com/710281.html?thread=15176329#t15176329)

2: Kamet's Map (http://sounis.livejournal.com/712102.html?thread=15225254#t15225254)

3: Masterpost (http://sounis.livejournal.com/715931.html?thread=15377563#t15377563)

[freenarnian.livejournal.com]

"...this little rascal, who is clearly taking over Sounis."

Dunno why, but my immediate reaction to this was: "In yo house, Eugenides, stealin' yo reprobates!" 8)

Imagine a character that could keep GEN on his toes!

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

Thanks for linkage! That didn't occur to me. >.

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Points I want to make...

1: The scene in the library with Pigeon and the line where Kamet suggests he needs a better tutor did not appear in the arc, and seem to have been added for the benefit of the map inscription, which leads me to believe "P" is the young Eurondite. The letter to Relius remained unchanged.

2: Pigeon is old enough to be a king's attendant yet apparantly doesn't know how to read. Is it possible he was being taught to read another language? Kamet is fluent in several, so... How old do you have to be inorder to be an attendant? 12? 13?

3: If Pigeon is being taught to read Attolian, he is clearly not of a privilaged background and is either a neglected illegitimate child of Eurondite or an oklie and was never educated.

4: To be an Eurondite, he would either have to have been approved by Eugenides as the heir or specifically picked by him if Eurondite (Dite's father) has passed or given up on choosing his own heir.

5: Eugenides takes Kamet's advice to heart and appoints (of all people) his former spy master to educate him, leading me to believe Gen is very focused on this young boy.

6: The map reads "when your tutor returns." Where did Relius go? Should I be scared?

7: Pigeon seems rather taken with Kamet, mainly because he figured out he was tricking his tutor. Is this a parrel of Kamet's relationship with Boot Boy Gen?

8: Considering all the mirrors of Eugenides, are we to believe this boy is somehow connected to the Thieves? I would die if he were Gen's nephew, but I doubt he is.

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

2. I love sclerotia's theory that maybe the boy is disabled in some way that might affect his speech. I guess that still doesn't explain why he doesn't know how to read and write.

[celebrilomiel.livejournal.com]

Perhaps if the right side of his body is crippled in some way (since the text specifically mentions him using his left hand), people thought that educating him was a waste of time. Perhaps, too, he was tempestuous like Colin in The Secret Garden and people had trouble dealing with him, so even if he was educated he never achieved full literacy. We already have proof that his tutor struggles to teach him.

[beth-shulman.livejournal.com]

I don't know that there's enough info given to come to any definitive conclusions (unless reallllly close reading leads to something) but something I've come to in conversation about this is the conviction that the older baron is dead and this is the new baron - hence "the young Erondites"; he's already Erondites.

It's complicated by the fact that Dite, too, is probably named Erondites, so maybe it's just the title given to all heirs? But if the older baron died - Gen did say he would pick a new heir, so that would all make sense to me.

I'm not a big fan of the "P" = Philo theory. It just doesn't work for me. I like the Pigeon theory a lot more!

[celebrilomiel.livejournal.com]

Oh, good point. Kamet did call him "the young Erondites," with the definitive article. I think that means we can safely assume that the original Erondites (Erondites Senior? Do we have an official designation for him?) is either dead or deposed and that Pigeon has taken his place.

If Pigeon truly is Erondites and not merely the heir, and if he is as young as he appears and is still learning to read and write Attolian (rather than some other language, a possibility ninedaysaqueen pointed out), then perhaps a regency of sorts is in place? Pigeon is unlikely to be managing the affairs of the barony at this point. Who would be managing the estate?